M-drol and havoc 1st time log join me !!

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  1. newbie2bb
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    Cool M-drol and havoc 1st time log join me !!


    Starting on march 15th

    my regiment for running havoc/m-drol for 4 weeks and then pct for 4 weeks

    Medicine of the Gawds
    20 mg of Havoc per day for 4 weeks new change for joints
    20mg of M-Drol per day for 4 weeks


    heart:

    8 grams of fish oil per day
    1 gram of Hawthorn Berries per day

    liver:

    600mg of Alpha-Lipoic Acid split up over 2 doses
    6 grams of taurine per day

    pct

    50mg for Clomid the first 5 days of PCT and then taper it down to 25mg. for the next 2 weeks of PCT then discontinue it.
    LG Sciences' T-911--dose as indicated on bottle for full four weeks
    1gram Milk Thistle per day while you're in PCT though

    Supplements throughout

    1 pack --animal flex new change for joints
    6 caps a day Bcaa 4 hour elite series by sni
    1000 mg ...3 x a day vitamin c
    300 grams a day whey protein /protein (aka chicken tuna etc)

    The stats

    Age:34 years old
    Height: 5'6
    weight:165
    pics: coming soon

    This will be and all category log.. I will also be commenting on my moods, how i felt that day, my workout (coming soon), side effects and just general sillyness if i feel like it (if u want a certain topic in the posts let me know). This log is to be humorous but also informative . all advice and comments definately appreciated and wanted.



    *****special thanks to *****

    ThunderGod
    He's my mentor and i hope this log is half the logs his are . and also thanks for all the help, suggestions, comments etc. without your guideance this never would have been as well laid out and thought out mentally as it is now.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Any reason u are stack 2 methyls? Hopefull u have run mdrol in the past.

    Would rather see u run:
    mdrol: 20/20/10
    epi: 0/0/30/40/40/40
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    ill follow. But why so low on the clomid?
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by ammoarsenal View Post
    ill follow. But why so low on the clomid?
    Agreed and for 20 days only???
  5. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Any reason u are stack 2 methyls? Hopefull u have run mdrol in the past.

    Would rather see u run:
    mdrol: 20/20/10
    epi: 0/0/30/40/40/40
    hmmm..will think about that . just i got the stuff but will consider it
  6. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Agreed and for 20 days only???
    what would u recommend? since two are question it . i can order more . thanks ..i was going with what was recommended to me
  7. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammoarsenal View Post
    ill follow. But why so low on the clomid?
    will pose both of u the question ..what u recommend



    *****but thanks thats why i posted before hand ****
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    I'd run one alone then pct and a month to be free as a bird then run epi and pct, trust me you dont want two methyls...have you ever had your blood work done and seen your levels, are you on any medication now, how is your diet currently and I'm wondering have you ever ran a cycle before in the past and what makes you want to go all out with two at one time?

    also I love this part 1000 mg ...3 x a day vitamin c
    I need to add more Vit C to my diet

    Honestly your old enough to do what you want and I'll follow anyway cuz I'm cool like that :P
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  9. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatsaRoid? View Post
    I'd run one alone then pct and a month to be free as a bird then run epi and pct, trust me you dont want two methyls...have you ever had your blood work done and seen your levels, are you on any medication now, how is your diet currently and I'm wondering have you ever ran a cycle before in the past and what makes you want to go all out with two at one time?

    also I love this part 1000 mg ...3 x a day vitamin c
    I need to add more Vit C to my diet

    Honestly your old enough to do what you want and I'll follow anyway cuz I'm cool like that :P
    I am not on any medication right now . and i have not ran a cycle of these types . I usually have done natural..aka prime, powerfull, and oep. I have had these supps in my arsenal for a while and under guidance of a professional was recommend to me. Diet is in good shape . I really am strict when it comes to that. alot of chicken , tuna , protein shakes, and even sardines when need be. and spoonfuls of natural PB and cant forget cottage cheese at night and shots of olive oil (at least 4 tablespoons through out day)...

    also i have a mens multivitamen i will be taking as well

    question on this type of cycle what caloric range is recommended?


    thanks for following and adding your coolness.


    I have the weekend to mull over all this so going to think real hard on it and some recommendations that have been presented .
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    having never run a hormonal product i would pick just one.

    u say thundergod helped u set it up....did he know this was ur first cycle? if so, thats pretty irresponsible of him.

    i know he runs crazy-a$$ cycles, but he shouldnt be recommending them to others, especially ppl new to hormones
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    Honestly I hope everything goes well for you, can you do a log and post what you eat daily for me so I can make sure your eating all you should :P

    Not trying to be a jerk but I'm tired of guys taking these cycles and not eating right so since you seem like a good guy please do a log for us and show the noobs how its done with diet sir.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins View Post
    having never run a hormonal product i would pick just one.

    u say thundergod helped u set it up....did he know this was ur first cycle? if so, thats pretty irresponsible of him
    i cant speak for thundergod ...but i did say that i was diong first cycle and what i was on for in past . again dont wanna down anyone . we are all here to learn and grow and if things need to be changed then def will consider it and mull it all over . but either way discussions will be made and a decision . again appreciate your concern .


    will be talking and checking with other vets and if needs to be postponed a week to make changes will do that.

    and rather than just say it was irresponsible can we put a positive spin on it and lay out or prvt me a solution thanks.
  13. newbie2bb
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    this is my diet on a daily basis . and i work 10 hour shifts 6 days per week


    these are my meals on a daily basis ..total for whole day at bottom ::

    THE MEALS (daily)

    Pasta al oil this is done twice a day

    ronzoini healthy harvest all natural whole grain--- 2 cups
    chicken breast --- 1 breast
    olive oil --- 3 tablespoons

    facts: (only one meal )
    calories 830
    Protein 37g
    fat 48.5 g
    carbs 82 g

    power shake this is done once a day

    8 ounce lowfat blueberry yogurt
    1 med banana
    1 cup of milk
    ice cubs for texture
    water to thin

    facts: (one shake)
    calories 488
    carbs 80g
    protein 24 g
    fat 8 g

    Quacker maple and brown sugar this is done twice in a setting

    facts:
    calories 260g
    protein 8 g
    carbs 64 g
    fats 4g

    protein shakes bodytech this is done 2 times a day

    facts: (one shake)
    calories 240
    protein 48g
    carbs 6 g
    fat 2 g

    6 large whole eggs boiled (all during day )

    facts: for all six eggs
    calories 468
    fat 31.8
    carbs 4 g
    protein 37 g

    2 chicken breasts (all during day )

    facts: One chicken
    calories 110
    fat 2.5g
    carbs 0g
    protein 23 g

    4 shots of olive oil (done throughout day)
    facts : all 4 shots
    calories 480
    carbs 0 g
    protein 0 g
    fat 56 g
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Totals for daily meals
    calories 4116
    protein 285 g
    carbs 324 g
    fats 205 g


    now i probably will have some nuts if ever hungry but there u go .....

    and at least 1 gallon water daily


    any suggestions / recommendations
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    Quote Originally Posted by newbie2bb View Post
    will pose both of u the question ..what u recommend



    *****but thanks thats why i posted before hand ****
    Run clomid 100 50 50 25. Works for me.
  15. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammoarsenal View Post
    Run clomid 100 50 50 25. Works for me.
    excellent thanks u very much and again stay tuned!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins View Post
    having never run a hormonal product i would pick just one.

    u say thundergod helped u set it up....did he know this was ur first cycle? if so, thats pretty irresponsible of him.

    i know he runs crazy-a$$ cycles, but he shouldnt be recommending them to others, especially ppl new to hormones
    I already told him to lower the Havoc dose down to 20mg. per day. At that low dose, it's more like gyno-prevention rather than a true anabolic burst dose.
    Everyone here knows that these Epithio's are pretty mild. I ran a cycle of 60mg. Epi with 30mg. D-Bol for 6 weeks last year and it was one of the best cycles I ever ran!!

    What would you suggest for him to run?
    M-Drol at 10/10/20. That's weak sauce man.

    I like you NOS. But I don't consider myself irresponsible for recommending 20mg. of each for a short 4 weeker.

    Opinions are like ass-holes........everybody has one!!!
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    Ok boys lets play nice here. Everyone does have their own opinion. I do know for a fact Thundergod has run some insane cycles lol. I do think that this guy is a bit inexperienced to try any of Thundergod's Colossal Man Mountain of Awesomeness stacks that is for sure. I am in the process of running my own insane stack now.

    Based on my experience this is what I would recommend. If this is his first time I would have him run The Epi at 30/40/40/40. If he is dead set on the m-drol run it at 10/20/20 and I dont think that is weak at all. I have run both of these compounds solo and bridged in the past and seen some pretty crazy gains. Down the road he could consider a bridge but he doesn't know his body will react to either of these compounds individually.

    Hope this helps
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymaddict20 View Post
    Ok boys lets play nice here. Everyone does have their own opinion. I do know for a fact Thundergod has run some insane cycles lol. I do think that this guy is a bit inexperienced to try any of Thundergod's Colossal Man Mountain of Awesomeness stacks that is for sure. I am in the process of running my own insane stack now.

    Based on my experience this is what I would recommend. If this is his first time I would have him run The Epi at 30/40/40/40. If he is dead set on the m-drol run it at 10/20/20 and I dont think that is weak at all. I have run both of these compounds solo and bridged in the past and seen some pretty crazy gains. Down the road he could consider a bridge but he doesn't know his body will react to either of these compounds individually.

    Hope this helps
    Im currently on 3 week PCT with this same exact cycle... 187-206 and kept and 34 waist.. has anyone ran testpro during an Mdol/Epi cycle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    I already told him to lower the Havoc dose down to 20mg. per day. At that low dose, it's more like gyno-prevention rather than a true anabolic burst dose.
    Everyone here knows that these Epithio's are pretty mild. I ran a cycle of 60mg. Epi with 30mg. D-Bol for 6 weeks last year and it was one of the best cycles I ever ran!!

    What would you suggest for him to run?
    M-Drol at 10/10/20. That's weak sauce man.

    I like you NOS. But I don't consider myself irresponsible for recommending 20mg. of each for a short 4 weeker.

    Opinions are like ass-holes........everybody has one!!!
    Why use epi as gyno protection with SD? It doesn't aromatize. The only gyno it can cause is rebound and thats from improper pct. At 20mg epi don't do much except like u said have very mild gyno protection. If he was running dbol or another wet anabolic I would agree with u. But SD def doesn't need it.

    If anything extend the cycle with a bridge from SD into epi like I suggested above. This will give time to help solidify your more rapid SD gains.

    But to each his own. Just my 2 cents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftingstud View Post
    Why use epi as gyno protection with SD? It doesn't aromatize. The only gyno it can cause is rebound and thats from improper pct. At 20mg epi don't do much except like u said have very mild gyno protection. If he was running dbol or another wet anabolic I would agree with u. But SD def doesn't need it.
    I've discussed this with others before. Even though certain compounds (SD) don't aromatize, the increases in your testosterone levels will aromatize. Your body will sense the extra test and call for more estrogen production to achieve homeostasis.
    Why do you think some guys during puberty get gyno? They're not doing wet roids.......it's just the increase in their testosterone levels. The body will call for more aromatase enzymes to be produced which will latch on to testosterone and convert it to estrogen. Os so I've read......

    But I'm certainly no expert in these matters. Just a student.
    I always toss at least 10mg. of Epi into my cycles even when running "dry" compounds. I figure better safe than sorry.

    But like you say....to each their own.
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    This dude also weighs 100lbs less than TG. My preference also tends to be for more, safer cycles.
    Paging Dr. Banner. . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    I've discussed this with others before. Even though certain compounds (SD) don't aromatize, the increases in your testosterone levels will aromatize. Your body will sense the extra test and call for more estrogen production to achieve homeostasis.
    Why do you think some guys during puberty get gyno? They're not doing wet roids.......it's just the increase in their testosterone levels. The body will call for more aromatase enzymes to be produced which will latch on to testosterone and convert it to estrogen. Os so I've read......

    But I'm certainly no expert in these matters. Just a student.
    I always toss at least 10mg. of Epi into my cycles even when running "dry" compounds. I figure better safe than sorry.

    But like you say....to each their own.
    There is no increase in test while on SD or any other aas except if u inject test or take 4AD. If anything there will be a shutdown of test production because you are now supplying an exogenous horomone. But u can also get the release of bound test which can be converted to estrogen. It's a complicated process of how aas and homones work in the body. You have many factors that can influence gains and side effects.
  23. newbie2bb
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    Ok gang nice discussion while gone - still debating probably lower dose but still in talks,

    But how does the 5/3/1 method look as far as weights or do more traditional?

    I do appeciate the help and will look at all aspects.
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    I would also run one of them solo first
  25. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by gymaddict20 View Post
    I would also run one of them solo first


    thank u for the suggestion and will see soon .
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    anyone suggestions of a routine.

    was thinking 5/3/1 method ... suggestions ?
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    This might help

    Keepin it simple Wendler 5-3-1 Log

    Side note
    I'm still doing the stanky leg for some reason
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  28. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatsaRoid? View Post
    This might help

    Keepin it simple Wendler 5-3-1 Log

    Side note
    I'm still doing the stanky leg for some reason


    hahah stanky leg...will be reading it tonight! thanks ..
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    It doesn't sound to me like your really even ready to do any kind of cycle. How long have you even been training? If you are going to jump in you would be a fool to stack anything. Just run the epi at 20 20 30 30 and you will get good gains being it's your first ph cycle. I think your plan is going to get you hurt.
  30. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by sw bill View Post
    It doesn't sound to me like your really even ready to do any kind of cycle. How long have you even been training? If you are going to jump in you would be a fool to stack anything. Just run the epi at 20 20 30 30 and you will get good gains being it's your first ph cycle. I think your plan is going to get you hurt.
    i been training for 3 years and suffered an injury last year and maiking my way back. The name newbie2bb is what i am on other forums so i didnt feel the need to change it . I figured people would see the wisdom i have by the fact that i listen and follow instructions of other and my mentors and how i conduct myself in the forums and thru other methods. I would also like to remind you that there are other people out there illlegal doing this and much crazier stuff.You should at least give credit to the fact that i am weighing all options and been flat out honest of who i am and then being a learner. I also have aligned myself with people who have been in the buisness and taking far harsher cycles than i am and will follow there foot steps... but thanks you
  31. newbie2bb
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    Exclamation The results


    Due to the overwhelming cries of the forum. We have decided (others weighed in) that we will stick with this formula for now HOWEVER LOWERING HAVOC . and run 4 weeks of 20mg on the havoc and m-drol. Deemed that some were voicing that 30 mg was too much for a first stack. Hence now a new plan. Workout plan is going to be started the day of training on monday.

    what i will be doing is 3 full body work outs a week. I will be hitting the major 3: bench , squats and deads twice a week. then middle day accessory work. I also will be adding some joint support into the mix .
    Suggestions for joint support? Cirrus i have heard or is there a cheaper way? glucosamine plus _________?

    -------But thanks to all who weighed in and all factors was considered . now on to the workouts and progress !!!----
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatsaRoid? View Post
    I'd run one alone then pct and a month to be free as a bird then run epi and pct, trust me you dont want two methyls...
    not tryin to jack the thread but don't you mean run one compound alone, pct, then 2 months to be free as a bird?

    Cycle+PCT= Time off

    Correct?

    I've read and be taught that the number of weeks on cycle and weeks of PCT equals how much time you need to take off before doing another hormone. Though, I sometimes question this b/c if I recover quickly after a month of PCT from a 6 wk cycle of Hdrol for example, why should I wait the 10 weeks after to take another steroid?
  33. newbie2bb
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsr08 View Post
    not tryin to jack the thread but don't you mean run one compound alone, pct, then 2 months to be free as a bird?

    Cycle+PCT= Time off

    Correct?

    I've read and be taught that the number of weeks on cycle and weeks of PCT equals how much time you need to take off before doing another hormone. Though, I sometimes question this b/c if I recover quickly after a month of PCT from a 6 wk cycle of Hdrol for example, why should I wait the 10 weeks after to take another steroid?
    I actually am double stacking this.
  34. newbie2bb
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    OK gang i added

    Animal Flex

    joint supports so i don't dry out
  35. newbie2bb
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    Thumbs up The work outs !! 3 full bodies .


    here it is .. I tried to lay it out for any first timers viewing logs . make it easy to read.

    Workout A (done on mondays and fridays )

    Barbell Bench Press (chest)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Barbell Row (Back)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Overhead Press Barbell (shoulders)
    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Dips (triceps)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    E-z curl Barbell curl (biceps)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Squats Barbell (quads)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Deadlifts Barbell (Hamstrings)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Seated calf raises (calves)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3xfailure=


    ------------------------------------------------------

    Workout B (done on weds )

    Incline Dumbbell Flys (chest)
    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Chin ups (Back)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Arnold Press dumbbell (shoulders)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Skull crushers (triceps)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Overhead cable curl (biceps)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Leg Press (quads)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Lying Leg Curl (Hamstrings)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3x5=

    Standing calf raises (calves)

    warm-up
    2x5=
    1x5=
    work-sets
    3xfailure=


    There u go ...thats what i will be doing ..so full swing tomorrow !!!
  36. newbie2bb
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    Post Dosing cycle and times for newbies to see


    Dosing cycle/ Timing (for those curious)


    Supplement/dose taking.....tablets.......... time dosing

    Havoc/20mg................... 2 tabs............ 6am /5pm

    M-drol/20mg.................. 2 tabs............. 6am/ 5pm


    Animal pack/ 1 per day.....1 per day..........8a

    Hawthorn/1g..................2 tab=1g............11:15a/2p (1 tab per dose)

    Alpha lipoic/600mg..........1 tab=600mg.......11:15a/2p (1/2 tab per dose)

    fish oil/8g......................1 tab=1g.............8a/11:15a/2p/4pm (2 tabs per dose)

    Taurine/7g.....................2 tabs=1g............8a/11:15a/2p/4pm (4 tabs per dose)

    BCAA /6 per day..............6 per day............8a/11:15a/2p/4pm (2 tabs per dose)

    vitamin c/4g....................2 tab=1g.............8a/11:15a/2p/4pm (2 tabs per dose)


    Pancreatin/4 tabs a day.....4 tabs a day........8a/11:15a/2p/4pm

    (digestive enzymes) just added its new


    hope this help those making cycles and what its all about ..reading planning and execution.
  37. newbie2bb
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    Thumbs up first workout


    Workout A

    Barbell Bench Press (chest)
    warm-up
    2x5=95
    1x5=120
    work-sets
    3x5= 2x5=150 then 3x3=150 pounds (stay)

    Squats Barbell (quads)
    warm-up
    2x5=110
    1x5=150
    work-sets
    3x5=190 (stay)

    Overhead Press Barbell (shoulders)
    warm-up
    2x5=65
    1x5=85
    work-sets
    3x5=105 pounds (stay)

    Barbell Row (Back)
    warm-up
    2x5=70
    1x5=95
    work-sets
    3x5=120 pounds (stay)

    Deadlifts Barbell (Hamstrings)
    warm-up
    2x5=125
    1x5=175
    work-sets
    3x5=215 pounds

    Dips (triceps)

    warm-up
    2x5=(had to do with assisted machine) @7(34 pounds)=2x5
    1x5=(had to do with assisted machine) @6(28 pounds)=1x5
    work-sets
    3x5=(had to do with assisted machine) @5(22 pounds)=3x5 --lower assistance next time

    E-z curl Barbell curl (biceps)
    warm-up
    2x5=40
    1x5=50
    work-sets
    3x5=60 pounds (go up)

    Seated calf raises (calves)

    warm-up
    2x5=90
    1x5=115
    work-sets
    3xfailure=2x4=120,1x5=120

    Good workout ...took 1 hour 10 min. mostly due to stacking weights and proper rest to recoop a little. Most have to stay cause either next time will totally fail on reps so will do same routine to build strength to hit it harder next time workout A comes along. but will gauge it in the gym. Seat calf raise felt odd gong to look for a machine cause of fact i dont think the machine i was on did full range . Other than that diet and the dosing schedule is on que. and making sure i do it ! So day 1 is down.
  38. newbie2bb
    Guest
    newbie2bb's Avatar


    Sides ..

    told you this would be an unbias very honest log .

    day 1::
    on the Havoc/M-drol. I experienced a massive headache...trust me it was migrane status for those that have had them. Now i took one alieve and it was gone. So no big deal.

    Day 2:
    Havoc/Mdrol didnt wanna exprience the same massive headache so hence took 1 dose extra of hawthorn berries extract and no headache. so very please about that. and before those ask yes i did alot of water a day. believe me

    Also very lathargic during the days. Not sure why but alot have experienced it so something u can push thru. so no worries. and to answer i take in enuf carbs and diet on cue when i take them . just happens i guess.

    any tips or what to take to wake up? ...for me i drank a coke and was fine rest of day.

    and yes i got enuf sleep 7 hours.

    other than that nothing to worry about so far.


    peace u all and thanks for reading

    thought about doin cardio but i decided no due to fact i wanna build mass up
  39. Registered User
    sw bill's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  168 lbs.
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    Apr 2008
    Age
    41
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    Alright please don't take this wrong, there is no way I can say it without sounding like ass but I think it needs to be said.
    I said I didn't think you were ready for steroids and you answer was you have been lifting for 3 years and that I don't know anything about you. I think the fact that after 3 years of training and your not even close to benching your body weight proves you don't have your training in check. Not saying that benching is the holy Grail cause how much you bench doesn't mean **** but you lift stats does give us a idea of how you train.
    Your stacking 2 fairly strong methy compounds, your gonna have sides like head aches, I don't care how much hb you take it's going to happen.
    I am surprised you are have lethargy all ready but if you are this quick then get ready for it to get worse. Definently add in some dhea to fight it. I really like PP's dermacrine for this but that is another ph so I don't now it that would be the best for you since your already taking 2 at once, maybe others can chime in on that.
    Honestly I am not tring to bash you or discourage you. I am just tring to help out where I can. I did things wrong enough when I started out but thanks to the helpful people on AM I got on track.
  40. newbie2bb
    Guest
    newbie2bb's Avatar

    Talking


    Quote Originally Posted by sw bill View Post
    Alright please don't take this wrong, there is no way I can say it without sounding like ass but I think it needs to be said.
    I said I didn't think you were ready for steroids and you answer was you have been lifting for 3 years and that I don't know anything about you. I think the fact that after 3 years of training and your not even close to benching your body weight proves you don't have your training in check. Not saying that benching is the holy Grail cause how much you bench doesn't mean **** but you lift stats does give us a idea of how you train.
    Your stacking 2 fairly strong methy compounds, your gonna have sides like head aches, I don't care how much hb you take it's going to happen.
    I am surprised you are have lethargy all ready but if you are this quick then get ready for it to get worse. Definently add in some dhea to fight it. I really like PP's dermacrine for this but that is another ph so I don't now it that would be the best for you since your already taking 2 at once, maybe others can chime in on that.
    Honestly I am not tring to bash you or discourage you. I am just tring to help out where I can. I did things wrong enough when I started out but thanks to the helpful people on AM I got on track.
    i appreciate your help ..that i do . and again i realize the place ur coming from and not just the words that you wrote but i appreicate ur advice and will look into dhea and again I take the good and bad. However maybe from here on out you can focus on encourage me , even in the lifts that don't measure up to your standard but are PR's from me. We all start somewhere . at least i am doing it wisely and listening to other people as well as incorperating their ideals and wisdom.
    Again I may be that person you say later on you know what . He knew his stuff ..he was honest. he did what he believed and he did it safely and took all precautions and he was on his first .would it be my choice of stacks,,no but he got guidance and learned all he could and followed all advice. and then out of habit i gain ur respect and i gain someone who says to another newbie go look at his log. thats how u do it.
    and in the end u realize ...I followed my heart and did my best ..and for those out there i log'd the results.

    For me its not gettin hoooge...its the journey to do something most say dont . or i cant. Not to prove them wrong but prove it can be done right. and thats how i live my life


    P.s I know ur my biggest fan and i thank u for the support


    spence
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