AA/12 steps/ steroids and phera plex
- 02-25-2010, 07:24 PM
- 02-25-2010, 08:54 PM
I have 5 years sober and recently started taking superdrol...the feeling that it gives you is definitely different than any mood-altering drug I have ever taken. As far as what people at meetings say about it...who cares? Bill W himself took acid in the 60's and also messed around with female newcomers. The "gurus" of the meetings may criticize you, but that is just from their own insecurities.
02-25-2010, 11:45 PM
Hyper congrats on the 3 years bro, I'm about two myself. I don't think steroids or PH's on anywhere close to the level that you and so many of us other people are at. Keep doing your thing, and lets here the results!
02-26-2010, 12:46 PM
02-27-2010, 12:20 AM
What's the deal with my emotions? I have been feeling depressed today, and I have not been able to concentrate for crap on anything really. It started after I started taking the test-e. I don't want to quit, is my estrogen levels too high maybe? I took 20mg of Nolvadex a minute ago to try and offset the moodiness feelings - I need to get some Letro I believe.
02-27-2010, 03:17 AM
02-27-2010, 03:30 AM
02-27-2010, 05:57 PM
nice thread guys... its been a while since i've been on AM due to how busy life has been these days with meetings, work, and school. glad to see you bringing these things up.
as for the feelings you're getting post-inj, i can't say i've ever experienced any of that, although i do remember during my first cycle of injectables, post-inj i tended to get a bit of an off feeling almost like i was about to vomit or something, but only during my first 3 or 4 days. at the time this was just with test-p. went away pretty quickly though
**** whatever any of you naysayers say, you are still sober, and still have 3 years under your belt and on that i commend you. last month i picked up my 90 day chip, and boy has this **** been a wild ride. a horrible 18 month opiate addiction was my reason for getting clean. sure needles are needles, but there is no way you can equate a slin pin in the vein to a 25G in the ass cheek. i'm sorry but the well being experienced on test is in no way shape or form comparable to the rush of an opiate crossing the blood brain barrier or any mind altering compound for that matter. many abuse hormones and dont cycle properly, and it is these people who may want to consider abstaining due to their lack of self control. don't let yourself fall into that category and you will be fine.
i don't want to hijack at all, i just saw this thread and thought it'd be a decent place to ask a question i've been asking myself lately... so after finishing outpatient over 2 months ago i've been in the facility's 'aftercare' program, for free, once a week, and basically allows me to stay in touch with the great 7 or 8 people i was in treatment with. i am given a screen every 2 weeks or so. this is a fairly advanced program based at a well respected hospital in a major city, and assumedly uses GC/MS to identify metabolites in your urine. during my month of outpatient, i was never asked about steroid use in my intake appointment, nor was it something we ever spoke about in my group. i obviously cannot assume anabolics are overlooked in the screens, especially because this is gc/ms testing, but all i am saying is that it was not something of their focus. now... i really would like to get a cycle going sometime soon, but obviously do not want to risk failing any screens. at first i thought maybe test would be sensible but then there's the test:epitest ratio to worry about, and then i was also thinking about just going with a short run of some oral designer stuff... obviously any designers that metabolize into known illegal hormones are out of the question (sd, hd, furaz, prostanz, phera, etc) so can anyone think of any hormones oral or inj for that matter, that wouldn't be commonly screened for??? i feel like i need to contract PA to design me a new clear ha.
it's really f*cking unfortunate that the fields of addictionology and any other for that matter still look at anabolics the same as they do dope... really f*cking unfortunate.
sorry for the long post but i guess its worth it since its been a while since my last. any input is appreciated, and to the rest of you on this board who are in recovery and in either fellowship na or aa, you're all amazing people and without you i never would have made it this far. thanks
03-04-2010, 02:19 AM
Wow, its sad that I didnt think of this earlier, but tradition 10 says, "Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy." Steroids is a prime example of what an outside issue would be. This is further proof that your not breaking any rules of such. So in other words, us yah sayers are neither right or wrong, we just have our own opinions. People, including your sponsor, can say whatever they want, but never let them make you feel guilty for your own personal life choices. It is not theirs to say. In conclusion, personalities may vary, but principles say to do as you please in this aspect.
03-04-2010, 09:35 PM
05-01-2013, 02:59 PM
Small world! So I just had this huge spiritual experience being a recovering addict active in AA but also starting to take part in steroids. I came to my own conclusions about it and have resolved the matter but just out of curiosity I felt I would do a google search "AA and Steroids" and this thread came up on this site, the same site I consider to be my steroid "homegroup". I never thought you guys would be talking about this here. I'm impressed. Cool indeed. Here's what I realized in week 4 of my 6 week epi cycle (my first cycle). "WTF am I doing? What kind of message am I giving myself and giving to God that I need this kind of shortcut?" My primary motivation is to look incredible. Why? Well, if I'm being rigorously honest with myself, it's 100% all about the approval of others - girls primarily. If I was the only person on the planet in existence, would I be doing this? No. I've discovered in AA that the root of all my troubles is self-centered fear. If I trace my motivation to use steroids down to the subconscious level, sure enough, it's roots happen to be subconscious fear. So while doing a cycle absolutely does not mean I need a new sobriety birthday cause this stuff does not effect us from the neck up, it does f**k with my program and my relationship with God. I was deeply troubled by this. I felt like God was testing me. If I'm really going to do AA the way I need to do it, ALL of me has to go. Even the part that takes gear. I can't just have a selective surrender, looking at my previous drug and alcohol use as the problem. The drugs and booze were symptoms of the underlaying problem. And that underlaying problem that drove me to drugs and alcohol is the same exact part of me that has me using gear. I have a warped, self-centered, negative-self-talking mind that is rooted in fear. I am dependent upon the approval of others. I care more about appearance than substance. This is why I drank and used. It gave me relief from all that self-centered sickness inside. So aren't I still appeasing that sick part of myself by doing a cycle? The answer for me is definitely yes. So for now, I've flushed my gear and am doing this naturally. For now, I need God more than I need a beautiful body, and that was the hardest choice I have ever had to make in my life. The only thing that mattered to me over the last 60 days was taking PH and working out. Yes, I went to meetings and was involved with fellowship and doing step work, but honestly the only thing that really was driving me was the obsession to look good. In the spirit of AA, everything I said here is ONLY about me, not about YOU. So don't be offended! This is just my personal experience up until now. Everybody's recovery is unique and different. I could very well change my mind and decide to do a cycle again. I am very pleased to know that there are sober guys here doing cycles. I just wanted to share my recent experience. God bless you guys.
05-01-2013, 04:54 PM
05-02-2013, 10:59 PM
Didn't read the entire thread, but congrats bro! Just be careful. We can debate if steroids are addicting, but who has ever done just one cycle? Furthermore, there is a definite tendency for each successive cycle to be stronger. GL.
05-02-2013, 11:01 PM
05-02-2013, 11:11 PM
Steroids are certainly addictive, but they aren't really a mood altering substance so technically they wouldn't be a "relapse". That being said, I wouldn't go around telling people at meetings that you use gear!
05-02-2013, 11:34 PM
05-03-2013, 01:12 AM
The biggest thing is to stay clean, serve God, train hard, eat healthy, supplement well and fill in the rest with gear. However know that gear cannot be used constantly, and you can look good naturally bro. Just work it out. The right answer will come.
05-03-2013, 03:22 AM
The Next Frontier: Emotional Sobriety
This is the substance of a revealing letter which Bill Wilson wrote several years ago to a close friend who also had troubles with depression. The letter appeared in the "Grapevine" January, 1953."I think that many oldsters who have put our AA "booze cure" to severe but successful tests still find they often lack emotional sobriety. Perhaps they will be the spearhead for the next major development in AA, the development of much more real maturity and balance (which is to say, humility) in our relations with ourselves, with our fellows, and with God. Those adolescent urges that so many of us have for top approval, perfect security, and perfect romance, urges quite appropriate to age seventeen, prove to be an impossible way of life when we are at age forty-seven and fifty-seven. Since AA began, I've taken immense wallops in all these areas because of my failure to grow up emotionally and spiritually. My God, how painful it is to keep demanding the impossible, and how very painful to discover, finally, that all along we have had the cart before the horse. Then comes the final agony of seeing how awfully wrong we have been, but still finding ourselves unable to get off the emotional merry-go-round. How to translate a right mental conviction into a right emotional result, and so into easy, happy and good living. Well, that's not only the neurotic's problem, it's the problem of life itself for all of us who have got to the point of real willingness to hew to right principles in all of our affairs. Even then, as we hew away, peace and joy may still elude us. That's the place so many of us AA oldsters have come to. And it's a hell of a spot, literally. How shall our unconscious, from which so many of our fears, compulsions and phony aspirations still stream, be brought into line with what we actually believe, know and want! How to convince our dumb, raging and hidden ‘Mr. Hyde' becomes our main task. I've recently come to believe that this can be achieved. I believe so because I begin to see many benighted ones, folks like you and me, commencing to get results. Last autumn, depression, having no really rational cause at all, almost took me to the cleaners. I began to be scared that I was in for another long chronic spell. Considering the grief I've had with depressions, it wasn't a bright prospect. I kept asking myself "Why can't the twelve steps work to release depression?" By the hour, I stared at the St. Francis Prayer ... "it's better to comfort than to be comforted." Here was the formula, all right, but why didn´t it work? Suddenly, I realized what the matter was. My basic flaw had always been dependence, almost absolute dependence, on people or circumstances to supply me with prestige, security, and the like. Failing to get these things according to my perfectionist dreams and specifications, I had fought for them. And when defeat came, so did my depression. There wasn't a chance of making the outgoing love of St. Francis a workable and joyous way of life until these fatal and almost absolute dependencies were cut away. Because I had over the years undergone a little spiritual development, the absolute quality of these frightful dependencies had never before been so starkly revealed. Reinforced by what grace I could secure in prayer, I found I had to exert every ounce of will and action to cut off these faulty emotional dependencies upon people, upon AA, indeed upon any act of circumstance whatsoever. Then only could I be free to love as Francis did. Emotional and instinctual satisfactions, I saw, were really the extra dividends of having love, offering love, and expressing love appropriate to each relation of life. Plainly, I could not avail myself to God's love until I was able to offer it back to Him by loving others as He would have me. And I couldn't possibly do that so long as I was victimized by false dependencies. For my dependence meant demand, a demand for the possession and control of the people and the conditions surrounding me. While those words "absolute dependence" may look like a gimmick, they were the ones that helped to trigger my release into my present degree of stability and quietness of mind, qualities which I am now trying to consolidate by offering love to others regardless of the return to me. This seems to be the primary healing circuit: an outgoing love of God's creation and His people, by means of which we avail ourselves of His love for us. It is most clear that the real current can't flow until our paralyzing dependencies are broken, and broken at depth. Only then can we possibly have a glimmer of what adult love really is. If we examine every disturbance we have, great or small, we will find at the root of it some unhealthy dependence and its consequent demand. Let us, with God's help, continually surrender these hobbling demands. Then we can be set free to live and love: we may then be able to gain emotional sobriety. Of course, I haven't offered you a really new idea --- only a gimmick that has started to unhook several of my own hexes' at depth. Nowadays, my brain no longer races compulsively in either elation, grandiosity or depression. I have been given a quiet place in bright sunshine." Bill Wilson
05-03-2013, 09:37 PM
i am in recovery in NA and am thinking about doing a ph cycle but i am wondering if it's the right thing to do. i plan on starting with something milder if i do end up doing it. i'm also skeptical about telling my sponsor what i'm doing, which i know is not good lol. i haven't even told him that i'm considering it.
05-13-2013, 06:40 AM
05-13-2013, 01:08 PM
BTW - after all that crap I said, I've flipped back to being okay with doing this stuff. While I think spiritually, it's not exactly the highest attainment to be needing to juice, it's sure a lesser evil compared to what we used to do. I think the same conversation could be had over non-alcoholic beer. It's a crutch, but I occasionally drink it. I don't talk about it, because many AA people are freakin nuts with their judgments and ideas, but it does satisfy my urge to have a beer occasionally. So spiritually, it's not an ideal choice because I am suppose to be going to God with that urge, yet having a few NA beers really does fill that need and does so in a way that does not cause damage to my life, nor does it threaten my sobriety. I think God would support that, even though some people in AA might not. So maybe the same could be said with gear.
05-13-2013, 01:31 PM
nobody's perfect. i'm not completely comfortable with my own use of a pro-steroid, but i made an impulse decision and decided to just go for it. it is probably just another form of self-obsession, but i am willing to live with the consequences. i don't think it constitutes a relapse, but i'm sure some would disagree.
05-13-2013, 01:33 PM
05-13-2013, 01:35 PM
AAS Source question
Seeing as though we are all God aligned AA/NA brothers on this thread, I'm going to go out on a limb and ask something that maybe I'm not suppose to ask here. If this is not okay, I apologize. I need some advice about my AAS source (whom I've never used) by someone in the know that has a legit AAS source in the US. I would like to talk about this privately via PM. I have some concerns and would like to possibly find another source, but don't know if that's necessary or not. PM me.
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