1st injectable cycle / research

[edwitt]

Currently cutting the fat from a 11 month all out bulk.. Link to that below

Planning my next cycle which should start April 1st it will be my 1st injectable all input greatly appreciated, nothing is written in stone but done about a months research and here are my early thoughts.

Ill be running an oral epi/tren in the form of Spawn to kick start the cycle. I have used this twicw before with great results and minimal sides. I will also run HCG during cycle to prevent shutdown.

weeks 1-12 HCG 500 IU every 5 days
Weeks 1-4 Spawn epi/tren 3 caps
weeks 1-12 Test Prop 500mg

PCT
CG
Clomid 75 50 50 25
Proviron


Support
Animal PAK
Animal FLEX
Himalyaya liver supprt
Fish Oil
NAC
Isopure Mass
Creapure
Xpand Extreme
Vitex

Current Stats
Currently 235lb and on cut should be 220lb lean by start
Height: 6'1

also who here has used either of these new age SERM's raloxifene or arzoxifen, i am looking into these on recommendation of a buddy from the UK but finding little info on the boards here also i would like to discuss pros and cons Test prop vs test enanthate

I will definitely keep a detailed log as thanks for all of those who help

 

[nosnmiveins]

Half life of Test is 2 weeks so shud i run HCG for 14 weeks? then PCT?
also who here has used either of these new age SERM's raloxifene or arzoxifen, i am looking into these on recommendation of a buddy from the UK but finding little info on the boards here

I will definitely keep a detailed log as thanks for all of those who help

if ur using test prop then u pin eod and it has a half-life of about 3 days.....not 2 weeks............unless u meant enanthate, not prop.

ive seen ur pics, its great ur cutting, but unless ur at 14% bf of less...i highly recommend NOT running the cycle. muscle gains are much more easily seen at lower bf

 

[edwitt]

if ur using test prop then u pin eod and it has a half-life of about 3 days.....not 2 weeks............unless u meant enanthate, not prop.

ive seen ur pics, its great ur cutting, but unless ur at 14% bf of less...i highly recommend NOT running the cycle. muscle gains are much more easily seen at lower bf

yes.. im working hard... im down 20lbs from that pic should be a lean 220lb by April 1st.

I just like to plan everything months ahead of time and im right on track for April 1st maybe 14t for thic cycle

 

[JeffD]

If you're using prop, it kicks in pretty quick so you might want to save the spawn for another cycle. HCG is usually started in week 3, not that it matters much because you'll still need to use 2 vials, but that's what most do. Prop can be painful, so you might want to grab some sterile grapeseed oil to cut it with at a ratio of 1:1. That's been helping me, along with heating the syringe under hot tap water for a couple minutes before injecting.

I'd also seriously consider an on cycle AI for a 12 week cycle. Arimadex or Aromasin. I'm using aromasin @ 25/day with good results, no acne, no mood swings, VERY minimal water retention (almost not even worth mentioning).

I chose prop because it kicks in quick and I didn't want the bloat of Enan. Good luck with it, I'm really enjoying my cycle (1st one) so far.

 

[edwitt]

If you're using prop, it kicks in pretty quick so you might want to save the spawn for another cycle. HCG is usually started in week 3, not that it matters much because you'll still need to use 2 vials, but that's what most do. Prop can be painful, so you might want to grab some sterile grapeseed oil to cut it with at a ratio of 1:1. That's been helping me, along with heating the syringe under hot tap water for a couple minutes before injecting.

I'd also seriously consider an on cycle AI for a 12 week cycle. Arimadex or Aromasin. I'm using aromasin @ 25/day with good results, no acne, no mood swings, VERY minimal water retention (almost not even worth mentioning).

I chose prop because it kicks in quick and I didn't want the bloat of Enan. Good luck with it, I'm really enjoying my cycle (1st one) so far.

thanks.. thats some great info really appreciateed

 

[edwitt]

If you're using prop, it kicks in pretty quick so you might want to save the spawn for another cycle. HCG is usually started in week 3, not that it matters much because you'll still need to use 2 vials, but that's what most do. Prop can be painful, so you might want to grab some sterile grapeseed oil to cut it with at a ratio of 1:1. That's been helping me, along with heating the syringe under hot tap water for a couple minutes before injecting.

I'd also seriously consider an on cycle AI for a 12 week cycle. Arimadex or Aromasin. I'm using aromasin @ 25/day with good results, no acne, no mood swings, VERY minimal water retention (almost not even worth mentioning).

I chose prop because it kicks in quick and I didn't want the bloat of Enan. Good luck with it, I'm really enjoying my cycle (1st one) so far.

Def want to kick start with the oral so if using test prop ill start that week 3 or 4?

 

[unc21]

If you're going to kickstart, do it right away at week 1.

Also, I dont think HCG is necessary. Keep it on hand in case you need it, but its up to you.

 

[edwitt]

If you're going to kickstart, do it right away at week 1.

Also, I dont think HCG is necessary. Keep it on hand in case you need it, but its up to you.

from the research ive done it seems HCG on cycle in small doses is almost a protocol

 

[edwitt]

from the research ive done it seems HCG on cycle in small doses is almost a protocol

if you want to look into HCG use on cycle its called "Swales Protocol"

 

[unc21]

Trust me, I know all about HCG, and am very familiar with swales protocol, and have been in the AAS game for awhile. HCG is not necessary by any means, especially with moderate and beginning cycles. Im not saying not to use it, but IMO, it is not necessary to use with a basic test cycle. Its good to have it on hand though.

 

[edwitt]

Trust me, I know all about HCG, and am very familiar with swales protocol, and have been in the AAS game for awhile. HCG is not necessary by any means, especially with moderate and beginning cycles. Im not saying not to use it, but IMO, it is not necessary to use with a basic test cycle. Its good to have it on hand though.

how about the epi/tren oral kickstart that is definitely very suppressive and from previous cycles has shut me down hard wont the HCG help there

 

[edwitt]

Trust me, I know all about HCG, and am very familiar with swales protocol, and have been in the AAS game for awhile. HCG is not necessary by any means, especially with moderate and beginning cycles. Im not saying not to use it, but IMO, it is not necessary to use with a basic test cycle. Its good to have it on hand though.

Also if you think this is a mild cycle i am totally up for suggestions on how to spice things up, the outlined cycle is only preliminary nothing is writtten in stone yet and couple of months away from execution.
:thanks:

 

[Harry Manback]

A "mild" test cycle is not necessarily a bad thing. Remember, test is king. When beginning, putting it on paper and actually going thru a cycle can seem like two different things. You may think you have it all planned out, but once you run it, you will answer alot of your own questions. Patience is a virtue. Experience is invaluable.

 

[edwitt]

A "mild" test cycle is not necessarily a bad thing. Remember, test is king. When beginning, putting it on paper and actually going thru a cycle can seem like two different things. You may think you have it all planned out, but once you run it, you will answer alot of your own questions. Patience is a virtue. Experience is invaluable.

thanks... id still like to look into my options maybe have something on hand for the last 4 weeks and decide based on results and sides as to whether to implement.. Any suggestions?

 

[unc21]

how about the epi/tren oral kickstart that is definitely very suppressive and from previous cycles has shut me down hard wont the HCG help there

As far as the shutdown, what were the major symptoms you had? Any steroid will shut you down, some just more than others depending on how you react. The biggest concern with shutdown is testicular atrophy, and then once coming off cycle, getting your natty test to start up again. This is essentially the major effect that HCG will help with.

As for the last 4 weeks to add anything, since you're cutting you'll wanna look towards winny or var. But it is your first bout with test, so its always a good idea to keep the compounds you are not familiar with to a minimum, but to each his own. Me myself, would go with var. Ive had better results with that as far as a hardening agent compared to winstrol.

 

[edwitt]

As far as the shutdown, what were the major symptoms you had? Any steroid will shut you down, some just more than others depending on how you react. The biggest concern with shutdown is testicular atrophy, and then once coming off cycle, getting your natty test to start up again. This is essentially the major effect that HCG will help with.

As for the last 4 weeks to add anything, since you're cutting you'll wanna look towards winny or var. But it is your first bout with test, so its always a good idea to keep the compounds you are not familiar with to a minimum, but to each his own. Me myself, would go with var. Ive had better results with that as far as a hardening agent compared to winstrol.

thanks... I had my blood drawn after an oral cycle of epi/tren in the form of Spawn. My test production was completely shut down Total Test was practically zero, i guess the Clomid did its job as i managed to retain 70% of my gains but had atleast 2 week total loss of libido. Now wouldnt small doses of HCG on cycle helped prevent this as per Swales Protocol ? This is the same oral i intend to use to kickstart the my Test cycle. Apart from shutdown sides were non existant gains were outstanding even @ 70%

Is there any downside to using HCG on cycle? it seems pretty inexpensive in the big picture of things

thx

 

[unc21]

The one draw back of HCG, is that it can cause estrogenic rebounding effects.

If you had a problem with your natty test kicking back in after your previous cycle, then it may in fact be a good idea to use while on cycle. Everyone reacts differently to products, so it may be something that will be useful for you.

 

[edwitt]

The one draw back of HCG, is that it can cause estrogenic rebounding effects.

If you had a problem with your natty test kicking back in after your previous cycle, then it may in fact be a good idea to use while on cycle. Everyone reacts differently to products, so it may be something that will be useful for you.

thanks... i read an interesting thread here about using M1T on cycle but that would really only apply to an oral cycle only but worth a read http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/145800-cycle-testosterone-support.html

As i understood it the estrogenic rebound effects should not be an issue on small doses of HCG? what do you think? was thinking of 500 iu every 5 days ? and i will do some research but i like the idea of having Winny or Var in my back pocket and making a last minute decision on whether to use or not (based upon any sides with cycle up to that point) but ill be doing plenty more research before i finalize anything. By the way i really appreciate the help man. Its starting to come together. Knowledge is key but first hand experience is King
:thanks:

 

[unc21]

250IUs HCG 2x per week is typically the norm for usage on cycle. Its been effective and is typical, so I would go with that.

As for winny and var, Im a var man all the way. I just reacted better to var, but thats just me. Good luck!