Gangsta Test

N4cer

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Easy, fellas. I'm kinda enjoying my Gangsta Test.
In fact, I like all the VPX products I've tried.
My only complaints: 1-Test Cyp is only 50mg/ml
4-HT Cyp is crashed.
 
bigswole30

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Easy, fellas. I'm kinda enjoying my Gangsta Test.
In fact, I like all the VPX products I've tried.
My only complaints: 1-Test Cyp is only 50mg/ml
4-HT Cyp is crashed.
Just stay away from the OHD! I liked the Gangsta as well. Jack just gave me the sterile version. YUM!
 

good_guye28

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give me a break what will they come out with next...........
 
lifted

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This dumbass over at anabolic freakz named "promatrix" keeps telling everyone "to use hydroxy test for PCT by itself." And then goes on to say that "how would you like to gain another 4lbs. of muscle on PCT?" How do you like that science?" What a fvcker, people like this are a complete joke...

I'll admit, when everyone was giving VPX a bad rap last year, saying they suck, they're pushing the envelope, etc. I gave them a chance, even went as far as to say that the "haters" were in some sorts hypocrites. Well, today is a different story, these guys are undoubtedley what hte haters have said all along. I'm ashamed I ever supported these false profits.

BS30, I still think you're alright, eventhough I hardly see you post anymore, but I wish you'd try and straighten out these other reps on these boards giving out all of this hurtful information. Someones gonna get hurt one of these days, and the reps are gonna take some heat, no doubt. I don't see why you wouldn't just step in bro, if it were me in that situation, I'd be givin' 'em hell....
 
bigswole30

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This dumbass over at anabolic freakz named "promatrix" keeps telling everyone "to use hydroxy test for PCT by itself." And then goes on to say that "how would you like to gain another 4lbs. of muscle on PCT?" How do you like that science?" What a fvcker, people like this are a complete joke...

I'll admit, when everyone was giving VPX a bad rap last year, saying they suck, they're pushing the envelope, etc. I gave them a chance, even went as far as to say that the "haters" were in some sorts hypocrites. Well, today is a different story, these guys are undoubtedley what hte haters have said all along. I'm ashamed I ever supported these false profits.

BS30, I still think you're alright, eventhough I hardly see you post anymore, but I wish you'd try and straighten out these other reps on these boards giving out all of this hurtful information. Someones gonna get hurt one of these days, and the reps are gonna take some heat, no doubt. I don't see why you wouldn't just step in bro, if it were me in that situation, I'd be givin' 'em hell....
Thanks for the kind words bro. However, you should not even begin to insult Promatrix. Dude knows his ****.
 
lifted

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Thanks for the kind words bro. However, you should not even begin to insult Promatrix. Dude knows his ****.
No prob, but do you then think that taking VPX's hydroxy test alone for PCT is an intelligent and wise decision that will make recovery successful?
 
bigswole30

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No prob, but do you then think that taking VPX's hydroxy test alone for PCT is an intelligent and wise decision that will make recovery successful?
I would have to see his post to see what he said. I know he uses 4-HT post cycle along with your normal(nolva, hcg, etc...) and has great results. Not to mention dude is a health freak and has all kind of blood work done.
 
lifted

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I would have to see his post to see what he said. I know he uses 4-HT post cycle along with your normal(nolva, hcg, etc...) and has great results. Not to mention dude is a health freak and has all kind of blood work done.
http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6004

Above is one of them, I can find a couple others if you'd like. But I was merely trying to say that you guys should chime in and call someone out when needed. Hope you see my point. ;)
 
bigswole30

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http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6004

Above is one of them, I kind find a couple others if you'd like. But I was merely trying to say that you guys should chime in and call someone out when needed. Hope you see my point. ;)
Promatrix does not work for VPX. He runs a very large sports nutrition store in S. Fla. He is more than knowledgeable about anabolics. Not to mention he is one of the the top pro's in the U.S. He just so happens to be my next door neighbor. He works with the top guru's in the world and no I do not mean Jack Owoc. You may or may not agree with his ideas, but they are backed by results and blood work.
 
lifted

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Promatrix does not work for VPX. He runs a very large sports nutrition store in S. Fla. He is more than knowledgeable about anabolics. Not to mention he is one of the the top pro's in the U.S. He just so happens to be my next door neighbor. He works with the top guru's in the world and no I do not mean Jack Owoc. You may or may not agree with his ideas, but they are backed by results and blood work.
This is another post that he said "shameless plug" when he recommended VPX again.

oxandrolone at 30 mg daily for 8 weeks is not supressive that much at all, (but can be-person dependent) but precaution is key element here, I would suggest something a bit more anabolic and does allow for HPTA regeneration=4-Hydroxy-test for 30 days PCT.

It will allow one to still gain 3-5 pounds post cycle, man science is so cool.

I recommened HM Gear or VPX (selfish plug
Another where he offers to send out free VPX samples:
http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=56952#post56952

Another where he says that he's a sports supp/developer etc.:
http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=56942#post56942

Bro, if you can still vouch for him and say he's not a VPX rep, then fine, there's not really anything I can do to prove you wrong....But from all the posts I have seen from him, its just kind of hard NOT to think what I thunk. :) And to thunk what I think what I thought...LOL...

Take 'er easy brutha...
 
bigswole30

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This is another post that he said "shameless plug" when he recommended VPX again.



Another where he offers to send out free VPX samples:
http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=56952#post56952

Another where he says that he's a sports supp/developer etc.:
http://anabolicfreakz.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=56942#post56942

Bro, if you can still vouch for him and say he's not a VPX rep, then fine, there's not really anything I can do to prove you wrong....But from all the posts I have seen from him, its just kind of hard NOT to think what I thunk. :) And to thunk what I think what I thought...LOL...

Take 'er easy brutha...
You are funny bro! I guess I put it worng. He does not work for VPX, but he is affiliated with the company. He runs VPX's retail store which carries all brands, not just VPX. He is a mega knowledgeable bro rather you agree with his ideas or not. He does formulate products for VPX as well as other companies.
 

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Promatrix is a good guy.


You have to give credit to VPX; look at all the attention, "gangsta test" gets b/c of its name as supid as it may be.
 
Sir Foxx

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By that measure, then we have to give Saddam Hussein credit, look at all the attention he was able to muster up. :D


I don't give VPX anything(i.e. money, respect, etc.). They are the bottom feeders of this industry.
 
bigswole30

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By that measure, then we have to give Saddam Hussein credit, look at all the attention he was able to muster up. :D


I don't give VPX anything(i.e. money, respect, etc.). They are the bottom feeders of this industry.

Thanks for the compliment! I work for the bottom feeders of the industry. Damn, I wish I had known. I am going to put in my two week notice asap.
 
Sir Foxx

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I don't have anything against you personally BS30, but if you if you're going to lie down with dogs.....
 
N4cer

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I also have to stand up and say that Promatrix is a good dude. And while I really like this board, it's not like AM has the patent on theories about OHT. There's plenty of real-world evidence showing that some people incur little to no suppression from OHT, and that they recover just fine while using it.
 
Dwight Schrute

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There's plenty of real-world evidence showing that some people incur little to no suppression from OHT, and that they recover just fine while using it.
With what proof? From most real world experience all I see is people misinterpretting blood tests and do zero follow up lab work which is the true method of confirming recovery.

As far as the AM thing, I don't know where your getting that from.
 
Dwight Schrute

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I just find it funny nobody mentions the RBA.
 
Dwight Schrute

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No prob, but do you then think that taking VPX's hydroxy test alone for PCT is an intelligent and wise decision that will make recovery successful?
Thats absolutely ridiculous and irresponsible.
 
N4cer

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With what proof? From most real world experience all I see is people misinterpretting blood tests and do zero follow up lab work which is the true method of confirming recovery.
Good point.
 
Dwight Schrute

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It wasn't an attack on your comment either N4cer, its just that I see so many of these guys come back with increased LH levels and conclude that recovery is happening when it's not. Hell I can post a study which shows D-bol increases LH levels in the first week but we know your not recovering.....

Recovery takes time and is not done in 3 weeks. I just hope some of these people realize this instead of misinterpreting studies to make a buck (if thats what they're doing)
 
Dwight Schrute

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And there is a difference from drug induced recovery, and true recovery. True recovery happens when the drug is not present. Anyone can show increased levels of Test and LH using Nolva but what happens when they come off? Numerous tests have shown that it can drop right back to subnormal in hypogonadal men.
 
jminis

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Promatrix does not work for VPX. He runs a very large sports nutrition store in S. Fla. He is more than knowledgeable about anabolics. Not to mention he is one of the the top pro's in the U.S. He just so happens to be my next door neighbor. He works with the top guru's in the world and no I do not mean Jack Owoc. You may or may not agree with his ideas, but they are backed by results and blood work.
Bump that Promatrix is good people and I wish we had more like him on the boards. He also def knows his **** and the man looks sick. All of his protocols are based around one simple idea, and that's keeping HPTA suppression down to a absolute minimum. His cycles are all based around recovery and health is his main concern, not how much weight he can pack on in 10 weeks. My 2cents, Later J
 
Dwight Schrute

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His cycles are all based around recovery and health is his main concern, not how much weight he can pack on in 10 weeks. My 2cents, Later J
If he's recommending Hydroxytest for PCT then its not. He might have good intentions and I have no problem with that, but a PCT protocol that claims Hydroxytest is good for recovery is not healthy at all. Its actually unhealthy.
 

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Gangsta test...........the name is so bad it is great. Good business decision on the name even if the name is catering to the more intellectually inept lifters.
 
Dwight Schrute

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You may or may not agree with his ideas, but they are backed by results and blood work.
Can you post the bloodwork that has follow up recovery 3 months down the road? Thats true bloodwork, not 3 weeks into PCT.
 
Dwight Schrute

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Gangsta test...........the name is so bad it is great. Good business decision on the name even if the name is catering to the more intellectually inept lifters.
Who cares. Thats like saying the drug dealer who gives out free samples is doing "good business". It doesn't take a genius to come up with this idea but in the same fashion it doesn't help the industry catering PH's to a younger audience. To me its typical VPX bullshit. Cater PH's to a young audience who are easily influenced and make outrageous claims that can be detrimental to your health. Great business.
 
jminis

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If he's recommending Hydroxytest for PCT then its not. He might have good intentions and I have no problem with that, but a PCT protocol that claims Hydroxytest is good for recovery is not healthy at all. Its actually unhealthy.

Bobo I agree that using that alone is a bad idea. He and a lot of other people like Author L Rea say it "may" help in recovery in HPTA. L Rea state's that it actually inhibits estrogen formation and has "reported" HPTA regenerative qualities. Damn I would like to discuss this further but I have to get to get to work. Later J
 
Dwight Schrute

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The problem is even if it does inhibit estrogen formation, your still in a tug of war because hydroxytest binds to the AR very strongly which WILL cause suppression. Its only 25% less binding affinity than miberlone and your already in a suppressed state. People seem to forget that. Something that is mildy suppressive will be even moreso when your in a suppressed state. Its only maginified.

An how do they come up with HTPA regenerative properites? LH levels? That means nothing unless Leydig cells are actually responding which won't happen when androgens are present. Only thing that can bypass the short and long feedback loop is HCG.

Once again I think everything is being stretched out and grossly misinterpreted to even attempt a conclusion. And unless they have actualy studies or proof to back it up, they are using the public as their guniea pigs. If they aren't recommending people try this and this is just fodder for discussion elswhere, then thats different. I don't want to condemn anyone if they are just discussing something.
 

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To me its typical VPX bullshit. Cater PH's to a young audience who are easily influenced and make outrageous claims that can be detrimental to your health. Great business.
Business ethics is a different topic.
 
Dwight Schrute

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You got that right. Then we would really get down and dirty.
 

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i am sure their "legal equivalent" to Winstrol-V will be called "DUBS"
 
bigswole30

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i am sure their "legal equivalent" to Winstrol-V will be called "DUBS"

HMMM..... I will run that by the CEO. Just kidding. I already know the name of our next prohormone. Let's just say VPX is going back to it's roots.
 

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HMMM..... I will run that by the CEO. Just kidding. I already know the name of our next prohormone. Let's just say VPX is going back to it's roots.
next prohormone? did you not hear about the impending ban? time to liquidate all ph's just like ephedra products.
 
jminis

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The problem is even if it does inhibit estrogen formation, your still in a tug of war because hydroxytest binds to the AR very strongly which WILL cause suppression. Its only 25% less binding affinity than miberlone and your already in a suppressed state. People seem to forget that. Something that is mildy suppressive will be even moreso when your in a suppressed state. Its only maginified.

An how do they come up with HTPA regenerative properites? LH levels? That means nothing unless Leydig cells are actually responding which won't happen when androgens are present. Only thing that can bypass the short and long feedback loop is HCG.

.

I agree, but honestly bobo I think were getting away from the main objective of 4oht. You asked to see bloodwork 3 months down the road to show true recovery and yes that would show true recovery once your off everything including nolva, clomid etc and the body is free of all compounds. But, how many of us won't be on another cycle by then. I don't think most of us truly recover to the point in which you speak of until we take an extended time off. For most as soon as time off equals time on there they we go again back on the sauce.

I think it could be used with PCT but not in the traditional way. I view it's "possible" use as maybe aiding in solidifying gains while getting the system going again and on it's way to recovery in conjunction with HCG and nolva. Also I think it can be a useful tool in a cycle in which you'll have a few weeks of clearance time with longer esters when most people use prop or supsension, 4oht could be used which will be easier on the body which will lead to easier recovery. Even the smallest differences matter in PCT. Every little bit of help is welcomed.

Overall I agree with you bobo but I think 4oht does have it's place and can be effective if used correctly. I mainly replied in this thread because of some of the bad mouthing going on about a good bro that has helped so many people with there training and protocols. I ended up in a informative discussion which is the main reason I come onto the boards. Anyway Pro is a good people and true bro's stand up for each other instead of sitting safely out of crossfire. later J
 
Dwight Schrute

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I agree, but honestly bobo I think were getting away from the main objective of 4oht. You asked to see bloodwork 3 months down the road to show true recovery and yes that would show true recovery once your off everything including nolva, clomid etc and the body is free of all compounds. But, how many of us won't be on another cycle by then. I don't think most of us truly recover to the point in which you speak of until we take an extended time off. For most as soon as time off equals time on there they we go again back on the sauce.

I think it could be used with PCT but not in the traditional way. I view it's "possible" use as maybe aiding in solidifying gains while getting the system going again and on it's way to recovery in conjunction with HCG and nolva. Also I think it can be a useful tool in a cycle in which you'll have a few weeks of clearance time with longer esters when most people use prop or supsension, 4oht could be used which will be easier on the body which will lead to easier recovery. Even the smallest differences matter in PCT. Every little bit of help is welcomed.

Overall I agree with you bobo but I think 4oht does have it's place and can be effective if used correctly. I mainly replied in this thread because of some of the bad mouthing going on about a good bro that has helped so many people with there training and protocols. I ended up in a informative discussion which is the main reason I come onto the boards. Anyway Pro is a good people and true bro's stand up for each other instead of sitting safely out of crossfire. later J
1. Then maybe you rethink your strategies becuase its not exactly healthy in the long run. Most people DO come off and try to recover. It speople like this that keep saying its ok and doing extended cycle and bridges won't be a problem in the long run. The make everyone around them think its ok because majority don't understnad it in the first place. Whats the point of adding an androgen in there when its only going to delay recovery and hinder full restoration? The more times you don't fullt recover from an androgen cycle, the harder and more difficult it will become in the long run and could lead to permanent hypogonadism. There are so many better options out there than to to stay on androgens, because thats what he's doing.

2. The more I see people going away from "traditional" methods the more I see how much they do not understand what is actually occuring. They think they can trick the body and find a short cut. They think the body works by pure cause and effect. It doesn't work that way. The HRT clinics are filled with them. Being easier on the body doesn't mean anything when it comes to HTPA recovery. Your right in the smallest differences matter during PCT. Adding an androgen is not a small difference, its a BIG difference. Plus you don't want HCG during post cycle anyway because its acutally the only time that it can effect the long feedback loop to the HTPA. So adding an androgen to that regiment makes even less sense. I don't think it has its place in any PCT regiment at all. It makes zero sense.

3. You can stand up for him all you want but good friends also tell each other that what they are saying is completely idiotic. I don't blindly accept what he says and the amount of blind loyalty on these boards is astonishing. I'm not saying this is you but people just follow the piper much to easily. In no way does adding an androgen to PCT, even with HCG, constitute a healthy protocol. He could have helped a million people but when he suggests protocols that are unhealthy, he will be critivized. Being a good "bro" doesn't give him a free ride here at all. I expect the same for me if the same thing happened. If talk complete bullshit, tell me, don't follow.
 
Dwight Schrute

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I agree, but honestly bobo I think were getting away from the main objective of 4oht. You asked to see bloodwork 3 months down the road to show true recovery J
Only because they said it helped recovery. How do they know if they don't do follow up work? Next time I take Dbol I will measure my LH levels during the first week and when they are elevated I will state Dbol helps recovery. THis is basically what they are doing. Instead of making claims that can actually alter someone's health, at least prove it first. I mean if your a well respected member your opinion can serisouly effect someone's health, in the WRONG way. This happens all to often on 99% of the anabolic boards and I wish the majority of these people actually took the time to understand what they are saying instead of making broad assumptions that can negatively effect peoples health.
 
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3. You can stand up for him all you want but good friends also tell each other that what they are saying is completely idiotic. I don't blindly accept what he says and the amount of blind loyalty on these boards is astonishing. I'm not saying this is you but people just follow the piper much to easily. In no way does adding an androgen to PCT, even with HCG, constitute a healthy protocol. He could have helped a million people but when he suggests protocols that are unhealthy, he will be critivized. Being a good "bro" doesn't give him a free ride here at all. I expect the same for me if the same thing happened. If talk complete bullshit, tell me, don't follow.
Amen....this is what I said how many posts back. Thats one thing. Then you got other moderators over at "'ology" still telling people to take B6 for progesterone induced gyno. But, since their moderators, I guess they know what they're talking about. :rolleyes:
 
Dwight Schrute

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I don't think these people are trying to give bad info, just that they are misinformed. I know they are trying to help but please make sure you know what your talking about when it comes to other peoples endocrine systems before making suggestions. This is different that telling someone whats the best creatine to take. I just think they should be more careful.
 
Sir Foxx

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Next you're going to tell me Cheque Drops are no good PCT, right Bobo? :p j/k
 
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Nah, go ahead. They will help with those Nolva and Clomid mood swings. ;)
 

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This is why I love this board. No fluff here! Only the real deal!!
Thanks for helping clear that up. I thought it sounded kinda funny thats why I made that other thread on the subject. For a second I thought everything I knew on the subject was no longer valid and that I have been wrong this whole time. I hate being wrong. Thank god I was right. ;)

db
 
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1. Then maybe you rethink your strategies becuase its not exactly healthy in the long run. Most people DO come off and try to recover. It speople like this that keep saying its ok and doing extended cycle and bridges won't be a problem in the long run. The make everyone around them think its ok because majority don't understnad it in the first place. Whats the point of adding an androgen in there when its only going to delay recovery and hinder full restoration? The more times you don't fullt recover from an androgen cycle, the harder and more difficult it will become in the long run and could lead to permanent hypogonadism. There are so many better options out there than to to stay on androgens, because thats what he's doing.

2. The more I see people going away from "traditional" methods the more I see how much they do not understand what is actually occuring. They think they can trick the body and find a short cut. They think the body works by pure cause and effect. It doesn't work that way. The HRT clinics are filled with them. Being easier on the body doesn't mean anything when it comes to HTPA recovery. Your right in the smallest differences matter during PCT. Adding an androgen is not a small difference, its a BIG difference. Plus you don't want HCG during post cycle anyway because its acutally the only time that it can effect the long feedback loop to the HTPA. So adding an androgen to that regiment makes even less sense. I don't think it has its place in any PCT regiment at all. It makes zero sense.

3. You can stand up for him all you want but good friends also tell each other that what they are saying is completely idiotic. I don't blindly accept what he says and the amount of blind loyalty on these boards is astonishing. I'm not saying this is you but people just follow the piper much to easily. In no way does adding an androgen to PCT, even with HCG, constitute a healthy protocol. He could have helped a million people but when he suggests protocols that are unhealthy, he will be critivized. Being a good "bro" doesn't give him a free ride here at all. I expect the same for me if the same thing happened. If talk complete bullshit, tell me, don't follow.

Bobo I understand what your saying but no where did I say to use HCG for PCT. I said to use it while on the 4oht. For me if I use it, 4oht will be used while other compounds are clearing out in conjunction with HCG, instead of using prop, suspension or some methylated oral. I don't plan on nor do I recommend using it as PCT. Also the man is completely against bridges because he stresses your either off or on and recovery is the most important thing. Also recovery is my main concern and I'd like to know how many times the question has been asked on this and any other board about how long between cycles and the advice by MODS here and every other board was Time off should equal Time ON.

Also I'm not following the piper bro this topic has been discussed with minds far greater then mine mainly Author L Rea. On another board he talks about how he uses it very successfully as a part of PCT all the time. And that man does bloodwork on his "trainees" Can I get you that bloodwork, probably not because he's a busy individual. But no reason for him to lie he doesn't own or sell these products. He has nothing to gain from it.

Also Jergo don't jump back into this conversation and say "see I told you so" after bobo discussed the topic. That's weak bro.
 
Dwight Schrute

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Bobo I understand what your saying but no where did I say to use HCG for PCT. I said to use it while on the 4oht. For me if I use it, 4oht will be used while other compounds are clearing out in conjunction with HCG, instead of using prop, suspension or some methylated oral. I don't plan on nor do I recommend using it as PCT. Also the man is completely against bridges because he stresses your either off or on and recovery is the most important thing. Also recovery is my main concern and I'd like to know how many times the question has been asked on this and any other board about how long between cycles and the advice by MODS here and every other board was Time off should equal Time ON.

Also I'm not following the piper bro this topic has been discussed with minds far greater then mine mainly Author L Rea. On another board he talks about how he uses it very successfully as a part of PCT all the time. And that man does bloodwork on his "trainees" Can I get you that bloodwork, probably not because he's a busy individual. But no reason for him to lie he doesn't own or sell these products. He has nothing to gain from it.

Also Jergo don't jump back into this conversation and say "see I told you so" after bobo discussed the topic. That's weak bro.
1. Sure you could use it that way but why? I can find a number of better compounds to use with HCG than Hydroxytest. But there is nothing run with that if thats what you want to do. IT does have a very high RBA so you might want to consider that to. Its not exactly a weak substance.

2. He stresses on or off and is against bridges but suggests Hydroxytest for PCT? Umm, thats what he's suggesting. Use an andorgen to maintain gains during PCT. Thats a bridge. Of course we recommend time on equals time off but we also don't guarantee recovery and usually have something else to add depending on the substance used. You know this so if your trying to make a comparison of our recommendaitons to this one, I suggest you rethink that a little. He is saying this androgen is helping recovery yet provides no proof. So it doesn't matter what WE say, HE is the one making the statement, not us.

3. I specifally said you weren't following the piper and it was a generalization. I said its happened all to often on most anabolic boards. How many people come here and ask about the Dbol bridge? That is a perfect example. This is just another spin off of the same type of thought. Just because it might suppress estrogen mean things change? I think not. I mean these people are still using the reasoning of short half-lives as proof!!

4. Never said he would lie, just that he could misinterpret bloodwork if its not followed up properly. This isn't my idea, this is carried out in the medical community as standard practice. Check any study on recovery and you will see how long they test and sometimes how long it takes to recover. 99% of the studies using Clomid and Nolva show increased Test and increased LH when they are using the drug, but what happens when the drug is discontinued? Some drop to back to subnormal levels and some don't. This is what I said earlier. There is a difference between drug induced recovery and TRUE recovery. If he is so sure I'm sure he would post SOME bloodwork of somebody! If he does labwork frequently this is something he easily could experiement with. I think the majority of these people who recommend these types of protocls jump the gun bigtime. Hell, ask SWALE, he'll tell you the same thing. It doesn't matter who he is, if his reasoning and proof are lacking, then he's just asking people to be guinea pigs (which isn't smart IMO). Bill Roberts is the one who popularized the Dbol bridge and what do we know about that now? A name doesn't mean they are right or wrong. Its just a name.

Its realy simple, use HCG during your cycle and all these bridges or whatever you want to call it are not necessary. Even if you don't, I rather use IGF-1 or Slin or GH. Two of them are easily obtainable for most people and will definetly not effect the HTPA. In fact in some cases it will help in many ways.

And there is always something to gain from it, especially if your the only one who recommends it and people follow blindly (once again, not you. You discuss it and see my reasoning).
 
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Bobo I understand what your saying but no where did I say to use HCG for PCT. I said to use it while on the 4oht. For me if I use it, 4oht will be used while other compounds are clearing out in conjunction with HCG, instead of using prop, suspension or some methylated oral. I don't plan on nor do I recommend using it as PCT. Also the man is completely against bridges because he stresses your either off or on and recovery is the most important thing. Also recovery is my main concern and I'd like to know how many times the question has been asked on this and any other board about how long between cycles and the advice by MODS here and every other board was Time off should equal Time ON.

Also I'm not following the piper bro this topic has been discussed with minds far greater then mine mainly Author L Rea. On another board he talks about how he uses it very successfully as a part of PCT all the time. And that man does bloodwork on his "trainees" Can I get you that bloodwork, probably not because he's a busy individual. But no reason for him to lie he doesn't own or sell these products. He has nothing to gain from it.

Also Jergo don't jump back into this conversation and say "see I told you so" after bobo discussed the topic. That's weak bro.
Whats weak? That I reinforced Bobo's statement with what I had already said? My "Amen" was to bump what I already said in relation to you, or anyone stepping up and telling someone that their wrong when needs be.

And above you say that you don't recommend using 4-HT for PCT. What do you think we're debating here???? My god man, this IS what he said, so your point is moot....
 

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