What PH to stack with what PH

[lyrical36]

So, before the DEA went ape****, I did what any bodybuilding enthusiast would do- I stocked up. My question is what kind of stacks can I create with what I've got. I do have previous experience with a PH cycle, as I ran Trenadrol followed by the lousy otc Clomed for pct. I know all about support supps, and this time around will be taking liquid tamox as my pct, plus any other rational recommendations. My diet is being revamped, and I'm not starting this for a month or so. Looking to more or less cut some fat and put on lean muscle ( as if everyone else wants something else). This is what I have:
Jacked (Spawn clone)
Spawn
M-Drol (Superdrol clone)
11-Sterone (11-oxo clone)
Havoc
Any info would be great, and I'm always open to recommendations for support supps as well.

 

[lennoxchi]

doesn't spawn have SD in it?

 

[gotbench600]

Spawn = Tren and Epi clones

 

[shawn213]

If you plan on stacking two ph's the best combinations would be mixing a class I with a class II. Havoc is a class I steriod which binds to the AR. M-drol is a class II steriod which does not. Those two compounds can be stacked.

 

[Xpballer]

If you plan on stacking two ph's the best combinations would be mixing a class I with a class II. Havoc is a class I steriod which binds to the AR. M-drol is a class II steriod which does not. Those two compounds can be stacked.

whats the difference and what steroids are what? Care to give a quick lesson?

 

[shawn213]

Class I
Boldenone based ph's - 1,4AD Bold
Progestin based ph's- similar to trenbolone
Testosterone based ph's - 1 testosterone
Epithio and clones - Epistane, havoc
DMT (Madol) based ph's pplex & clones

ClassII
Masteron based ph's- SD & clones
Oral turinabol(dehydromethyltestosterone) based ph's - halodrol & clones
Dianabol based ph's - m1,ADD M1T
Winstrol (stanozolol) based ph's - Orstan-A, Furaguno
Clostebol based ph's - Oxyguno, 4AD, P-mag ect.
Revolt, Propadrol
Furazadro,l ect

 

[suncloud]

5'10, 260 and considering a second cycle? i need to see pics.

 

[monstermash]

5'10, 260 and considering a second cycle? i need to see pics.

Yeah 260 is a big boy. what's your bf%

 

[alexx33]

This is what I have:
Jacked (Spawn clone)
Spawn
M-Drol (Superdrol clone)
11-Sterone (11-oxo clone)
Havoc
Any info would be great, and I'm always open to recommendations for support supps as well.

jacked is tren/epi clone so that's a stack in itself.

mdrol can be stacked with 11oxo for a great cut.

mdrol can also be stacked with havoc as well (class I and class II). you can run this stack 20mg mdrol/30mg epi for 4 weeks together or bridge them, it's your choice.

 

[Mass_69]

Class I
Boldenone based ph's - 1,4AD Bold
Progestin based ph's- similar to trenbolone
Testosterone based ph's - 1 testosterone
Epithio and clones - Epistane, havoc
DMT (Madol) based ph's pplex & clones

ClassII
Masteron based ph's- SD & clones
Oral turinabol(dehydromethyltestosterone) based ph's - halodrol & clones
Dianabol based ph's - m1,ADD M1T
Winstrol (stanozolol) based ph's - Orstan-A, Furaguno
Clostebol based ph's - Oxyguno, 4AD, P-mag ect.
Revolt, Propadrol
Furazadro,l ect

Where did you come up with these classifications?

 

[shawn213]

So, before the DEA went ape****, I did what any bodybuilding enthusiast would do- I stocked up. My question is what kind of stacks can I create with what I've got. I do have previous experience with a PH cycle, as I ran Trenadrol followed by the lousy otc Clomed for pct. I know all about support supps, and this time around will be taking liquid tamox as my pct, plus any other rational recommendations. My diet is being revamped, and I'm not starting this for a month or so. Looking to more or less cut some fat and put on lean muscle ( as if everyone else wants something else). This is what I have:
Jacked (Spawn clone)
Spawn
M-Drol (Superdrol clone)
11-Sterone (11-oxo clone)
Havoc
Any info would be great, and I'm always open to recommendations for support supps as well.

The combination of 11-oxo and havoc is a perfect match for a cutter. I think if you were using 11-oxo to limit the conversion to cortisol, plus while using havac to boost anabolic activity while limiting estrogen, it would make quite a stack.

 

[suncloud]

Where did you come up with these classifications?

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/prohormones_13

Pro-hormone "Traits"

The difference between "wet" and "dry" steroids/phs is water retention. Water retention is caused by estrogen conversion through aromatase.

WET:
- M1,4ADD
- Pheraplex
- M1T (and subsequent legal variants/clones)
- *Superdrol

DRY:
- Bold (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning)
- Epistane (AKA Havoc)
- Tren
- *Superdrol
- Halodrol
- Winztrol (banned?)
- Furazadrol
- Prop

STRENGTH:
- Tren (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
- Superdrol
- M1T(and legal clones)
- Pheraplex and clones (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
- M14ADD

Pro-hormone Classification

Steroids are classified under 2 categories. Class I has a strong binding to the androgen receptor. Class II does not bind to the androgen receptors, rather it works through other means in the body.

Cliff's notes of the above statement:

Class I = binds to androgen receptor
Class II = does not

These pro-hormone classifications are based on their steroid counterparts. If there are any revisions needed PLEASE post so below. If that goes unnoticed, PM me.

Class I

Boldenone based - 1,4AD & Bold
Progestin based - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
Dienolone based - (again similar to tren) - Mdien
Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based - Epistane & Clones (like Havoc & so on so forth)
Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol) based phs - Pheraplex & clones
Testosterone
DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) based phs - M5AA

Class II

Masteron (Dromostanolone) based - Superdrol & Clones
Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone) based - Halodrol & Clones
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based - M1,4ADD, M1T, 1-T, Methyl XT
Winstrol (stanozolol) based - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
Furazabol (miotolan) based - Furazadrol etc
Progesterone based - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG
Clostebol based - Chlorodrol, Oxyguno
4-AD

Not Pro-hormones...

Testabolan is not a prohormone, it is an ecdysterone, tribulus, oglio peptide product.
Superdrol NG - Prasterone = DHEA, Methyl Xanthine = Caffine, Aprodine HCL = Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, ATD - test booster/aromatase inhibitor

I would like to add that Mass Tabs is a prosteroid - 2a, 17a-dimethyl 17b-hydroxy 5a-androstan-1-ene-3-one however since its close to about 3-4 steroids/other prohormone compounds out there, I can't classify it. I would guess its a class II though.

Stacking

If you plan on stacking two pro-hormones at the same time, the best combination are class I mixed with a class II. For example SD/Bold, Halo/Tren, M1T/Prop, and so on...

Here's why:
When you take a class I/class I stack, you're theoretically limiting your body's ability to suck up the little steroid molecules you're pumping into it. Think of it like a burger joint parking lot at lunchtime. There are no parking spots available, and you're stuck lying in line wait for a spot to open up.

However, with a class I/class II combination while one pro-hormone floats around binding to the androgen receptor, the other little guy is busy attaching itself to other parts of the body to encourage growth.

 

[Mass_69]

It's a good thought in theory, I just don't get how the author came up with which PH/PS binds to the AR and which doesn't. Most of these hormones haven't been studied (or studied much), and most of them possess a 17b-ol which will allow them to bind to the AR. Also, the author is going mostly by how the parent compound works, which can be a big difference. The sub-categories are also contradicting:

Class I:
Progestin based - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex

ClassII:
Progesterone based - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG

Well, since progesterone is a progestin, this is contadicting and the author doesn't seem to understand the difference.

Another example, boldenone vs. dianobol (methylboldenone), mg for mg, dbol is way more androgenic and absolutely does bind to the AR.

 

[suncloud]

i'll be the first to say most of the info is above my head, so i'm pleading ignorance.

 

[UnrealMachine]

about stacking and classifications etc. I think it's similar to the anabolic:androgenic ratings, they look good on paper but in practice it's difficult to notice any difference. You might think stacking class I with class I would lead to diminishing returns faster bc of competition for the AR or just because they're the same class but look at that list, Phera, Epi and "tren" are all class I and every possible permutation of those 3 has been run with great success.

Basically I just haven't seen anything that would support the need to combine class I with class II. Just try to stack dissimilar steroids so that you can get the broadest range of effects with the least possible total dose.

 

[shawn213]

I agree, there is not enough research on stacking ph's, and yet maybe not enough detailed negative and positive feedback from users. But the ideal of different compounds binding to the same receptor such as two class I's seems as if it would reduce the effect of both of them. Will this create a negative feedback loop and limit the amount of receptors to bind with its constituent? Now we have one compound that will not bind and remain in the plasma and eventually be metabolized and excreted without being abosorbed.

Again, I haven't seen any proven documents on how that works, it just sounds good in theory.

 

[Mass_69]

I agree, there is not enough research on stacking ph's, and yet maybe not enough detailed negative and positive feedback from users. But the ideal of different compounds binding to the same receptor such as two class I's seems as if it would reduce the effect of both of them. Will this create a negative feedback loop and limit the amount of receptors to bind with its constituent? Now we have one compound that will not bind and remain in the plasma and eventually be metabolized and excreted without being abosorbed.

Again, I haven't seen any proven documents on how that works, it just sounds good in theory.

Yeah, part of what I was getting at was that some of the compounds (and especially without the research behind them) were probably mis-categorized as far as class I vs. class II.

 

[mildot]

Stack name?

I understand the tren and epi is called a spawn stack. Is there another name for a tren and phera stack? :hmmm: I understand both tren and phera (p-plex) are harsh. So I am still trying to research if this is a workable stack. I cannot find any epi (e-stane) anymore. Thanks for helping a noob on training wheels.

:thanks:



{Edit} No mods, I am not trying to solicit referrals to other sites for products...

 

[crowbar46]

I thought the whole idea of class I and class II compounds kind of went out the window. William Llewellyn says that all steroid effects are mediated through the AR.

Crowbar

 

[TooBroke0029]

First post on this forum.. totally stoked about my "first" cycle.. this post has me a little confused.. i started to think i could stack halovar and nasty mass? i did a search and read a post from 2007 giving dosages for most ps/ph, if you were to stack these would the dosages change ? any help is appreciated.

 

[jbryand101b]

I thought the whole idea of class I and class II compounds kind of went out the window. William Llewellyn says that all steroid effects are mediated through the AR.

Crowbar

all aas have some binding affinity to the ar. how well is what i think this class 1/2 is getting at.

I know sd (a isomer) binds strongly to the androgen receptor, so i dont know how it got put into class 2, which alot of those compounds are dht derrivatives. the author clearly doesn't know this.


I think when you start getting into compounds and adding pro's to one or another, you are going to have to start researching more (if you really care atleast, other wise, just follow the crowd) to learn why/what a particular compound stacks best.

class 1/2 is only one starting point. you then have to look at other things such as test based/ nandrolone based and posibly the effects a more androgenic based compound will have with a nandrolone based compound.
for ex.

again, that is if you care why. otherwise you can just search for popular stack. alot of people stack epi/tren, or hd/fura. or rec that test goes with everything. but most dont know why.

 

[RAZORBACK09]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to suncloud again.

Suncloud knows his stuff.