"Andro bans effects may be small" Washington Post article
- 03-26-2004, 03:00 PM
"Andro bans effects may be small" Washington Post article
Well here it is. I don't understand why the people who work at these companies would say these things to a reporter. It seems stupid to me that they would mock the FDA so openly like this in the face of whats happening. Makes you wonder if the people interviewed had something to gain by this. I don't know just a rant I guess. If this article is already here sorry.
- 03-26-2004, 03:19 PM
- 03-26-2004, 03:22 PM
Andro Ban's Effect May Be Small
Manufacturers Say More Potent Products Have Replaced Supplement
By Amy Shipley
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, March 18, 2004; Page D03
Supplement companies notified of last week's Food and Drug Administration ban of androstenedione said the action will have little effect as andro has been surpassed by far more potent products and is virtually obsolete.
At least eight of the 23 manufacturers that received warning letters say they stopped making the androstenedione products for which they were cited months or years ago.
William Llewellyn, the president and chief executive officer of Molecular Nutrition, called androstenedione "an antiquated old product." Derek Cornelius, the owner of Syntrax Innovations, estimated that it represents 0.25 percent of the current dietary supplement market.
"I don't know anyone selling it, I don't know anyone manufacturing it and I sure don't know anyone buying it," said Cornelius, whose company discontinued production of its andro product Libidione more than three years ago.
In what it described as a "crackdown" against androstenedione, the FDA last week banned the substance, which became widely known in 1998 when slugger Mark McGwire admitted using it. The FDA said the action represented the most recent step by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to ensure the safety of dietary supplements, an industry that has been largely unregulated since the passage of a 1994 law. In December, the FDA announced a ban on the sale of products containing ephedrine.
FDA spokeswoman Kim Rawlings said the organization decided to ban androstenedione after reviewing scientific evidence that showed health risks associated with its use.
"There are firms continuing to make it and because it is a public health issue, the FDA felt it was prudent to take these actions to stop the distribution and marketing of these products." Rawlings said.
But supplement makers say androstenedione, which reached the market in 1996, was merely the first generation of a category of dietary supplements known as steroid precursors -- substances that convert to steroids in the body.
They say dozens of products available in nutrition stores or online have supplanted andro because they convert more efficiently to steroids or, in some cases, don't even require a conversion since they are already full-blown steroids.
Several manufacturers said the most revolutionary products (such as Methyldienolone from Gaspari Nutrition) closely resemble powerful -- and illegal -- oral steroids like Dianabol because they are synthetically modified so the liver can't break them down. The result is a potency and liver toxicity that is believed to be orders of magnitude greater than for androstenedione.
"It's like a brand new Porsche with two turbo chargers versus a broken down Volkswagen on cement blocks with no tires," said Stan Antosh, senior director of research and development for OSMO, which stopped manufacturing andro products two years ago. "There's no comparison between androstenedione and the new stuff."
Said Jim Riggs, president of Schwartz Laboratories in Cincinnati: "The FDA is so behind the game. . . . The technology is so far advanced past androstenedione."
The companies notified of the andro ban by the FDA did not include all of the current or former androstenedione manufacturers but did target at least one (Genetic Evolutionary Nutrition) that has been out of business for months. The FDA also did not include many steroid precursor manufacturers selling more modern products.
But Rawlings said further action was likely.
"I can't show you a road map to say who we are going after next; however, we are looking into other precursors," Rawlings said. ". . . We do intend to continue to examine and take further action as appropriate."
Manufacturers noted that they could avert the andro ban if they chose. The letters sent to the companies instructed them not to sell androstenedione unless they could prove its safety or that it contains dietary ingredients present in the food supply that have not been chemically altered.
"Andro is found in the food supply," Llewellyn said. "Everybody knows that. I could send you a five-inch folder that shows it occurs in nature. It's everywhere. If that's the criteria, it's easily met."
Several manufacturers called the ban a publicity stunt designed to make the government look tough on drugs.
"It's terrible that the FDA isn't up to speed on what companies are producing," said Ron McAfee, the owner of ISS Research in Charlotte. "We found it comical that we received a certified letter on a product that was discontinued two years ago."
Rawlings said that FDA Commissioner Mark McClellan is "very much on board and has everyone pursuing . . . these products."
03-26-2004, 05:00 PM
That's great. Maybe LLewelyn will give the feds some guidance on who, where, how and why these compounds are made.
With friends like that, who needs enemies. sheesh!
03-26-2004, 05:43 PM
big tobacco -
"there is no evidence ciggerettes cause cancer"
supplement companies -
"you think that stuff is bad, the stuff we sell now will kill you 10x faster."
03-26-2004, 09:34 PM
03-26-2004, 11:28 PM
Bill Llewellyn needs to check his ****in ego because mocking the FDA isn't too helpful for those of us who want the ban to take as long as it can.
03-27-2004, 02:31 AM
This is the third time ****ing Bill L has opened his mouth in an article, drawing negative attention to the industry.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
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03-27-2004, 09:23 AM
The general public does not have a high opinion of the intelligence of bodybuilders, and with "industry leaders" like these, the image is only getting worse. I am not saying that they should cover things up, but to volunteer the most damaging image possible is naive beyond belief. It is not even accurate--think about it. What percentage of bodybuilders are going to get involved with Methyl Dien--not to mention the fact that it is not that hot anyway? The alcohol and tobacco industries do not talk like this. Can you imagine Bill Phillips or Scott Connelly talking like this? They could, since they know this industry very well and they are no longer involved in the manufacture of any supplements (as far as I know). How people like Llewellyn, Cornelius, Antosh, Riggs, and McAfee--who are still in this industry--can even consider saying stuff like this is unbelievable.
03-27-2004, 01:27 PM
Agreed Cogar. It's as if he's trying to hasten the end by goading the FDA. I'm a consultant (non-supp related) that works as a liason between companies and the fed and state bureauacracies. One thing you DON'T do is mock the bureaucrats and brag how you are so far ahead of them. That makes them set their sights on YOU. Next thing you know they are funneling all of their resources toward you..not only to make an example of you (because you made it so damned easy) but also satisfy thier egos.
These agencies are constantly searching for ways to justify thier existance..Bill L just gave them another reason.
In some ways I'll be laughing at these greedy supp companies when they're all shut down. THEY have spent so much time and negative energy peddling crap, back-stabbing each other, and not taking responsible steps to keep PH away from kids they damned near deserve what is coming. It's the small suppliers that I'll be sad to see go.
03-27-2004, 06:40 PM
03-27-2004, 06:55 PM
guy we all know the light's will go out ......then we will all be on the dark side......
besides dball is better for you than M1 t
03-27-2004, 07:14 PM
I'll join you guys in about 3 to 5 years when my stockpile of M14ADD and M-Dien runs out.Originally Posted by buyb12
03-27-2004, 09:07 PM
Some people will do just about anything for their 15 minutes of fame...like put themselves out of business
03-28-2004, 02:06 AM
Lol i was worried before about the PH ban on more powerful stuff like M1t, but now thanks to this guy there is no need to worrie. Better start stockpiling now!
Even though every thing this guy said is pretty much true, the way he said it just reaks of ignorance and it's like he's trying to piss the FDA off. Not exactly the thing you want to do right now... I really love his logic : "andro is nothing, the FDA is so far behind, if you think that stuff is strong you should see the stuff we make now!"
If the FDA banned a crap supplement like Andro what do you think they are going to do with something like M1T. I really hope some one with some sense steps in and actually "informs" the FDA about these products in a more insiteful manner.
03-28-2004, 06:40 PM
they'll simply ban that too. It will either be legal or it won't be. If anything they'll make it a class 2 or 3 steroidOriginally Posted by EPe9686518
03-28-2004, 10:47 PM
That is exactly what i was implying....they'll simply ban that too. It will either be legal or it won't be. If anything they'll make it a class 2 or 3 steroid
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