Trying to decide on my first cycle. To methyl or not to methyl?
- 03-26-2004, 05:36 AM
Trying to decide on my first cycle. To methyl or not to methyl?
I've decided I'm finally ready to try my first PH cycle. But, it won't be for another couple months because I still have a lot of reading to do. I've read all the FAQs, but I'm just now getting idea of what the trends are.
Since it will be my first cycle, I want to be cautious. I'm somewhat of an ectomorph though, so I also need something to pack on the pounds. Of course, I have many questions.
It seems there are 3 popular options:
1-test & 4AD, 1AD & 4AD, or Methyl 1-test & 4AD
Are there other stacks I should look into? I guess I could try just straight 4AD...
Do you think I would be better off with transdermals or oral delivery for my first cycle? (I'm leaning towards dermals)
A short 2 week cycle sounds great, but is that long enough when using dermals?
Is there any advantage of taking 1AD instead of 1-test?
If I use a 1-test/4AD dermal, what ratio should I get? 50/50? 66/33? (BDC looks like a good brand choice)
Is nolvadex all I need for post cycle? Should I get 6oxo too?
Right now I'm thinking of using a BDC 1-test/4AD dermal, and then wait and try the Methyl on a later cycle. Is this a good idea or should I try a short 2 week M1T/4AD cycle first, then a 4 week 1T/4AD cycle later if I want something different?
BTW, hair loss is the only side effect that I'm a little worried about. But as far as I know, none of these stacks are really better or worse than eachother as far as hair loss goes. Is that right?
Sorry for all the newbie questions. Hope these aren't too repetitive. All help is appreciated. Thanks everyone.
- 03-26-2004, 09:05 AM
- 6'1" 240 lbs.
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
Probably shouldn't do a methyl for your first ph cycle but 4AD is definately a good choice. 2 weeks won't be long enough, I'd at least do 4-6 weeks. Depending on your bodyweight, which wasn't provided, I'd try about 500mg of 4AD every day (transdermal, of course). See how it works solo, do your PCT, and next time add something to the mix and see how it goes. More or less feel your way around and find out what works best for you. More than a few people take large amounts of **** they don't need and aren't even sure what works for them and what doesn't. I'm sure you get the point, I won't go into it further. But basically, just start small and "like a blind man at a urinal, you're gonna have to feel your way around."
- 03-26-2004, 11:09 AM
I would definitely not recommend M1t for a 1st cycle. I think the best 1st cycle is a 1-test/4ad transdermal in a 50/50 ratio. You could go with more 4ad, but I wouldnt go more with the 1test. Its a good idea to see how you react to 1-test before higher dosing or m1t. Everybody reacts differently. You definitely need 4 weeks minimum with a dermal, I suggest 6 weeks. I've always seen the biggest gains in weeks 3-6, & feel its a waste to cut it short. Try a BDC dermal at 2 squirts/day. You'll need 1 4oz bottle for 4 weeks or 1.5 for 6 weeks. Max out the bottles with 5g 1t & 5g 4ad. Make sure you get nolva or clomid in-hand before starting. You could also do 4ad only, its up to you. I think bloat would be high on only 4ad.
1-test & 4ad could effect hair, but only if you're prone to MPB. I have never lost a single hair.
No benefit to 1ad. It converts to 1test & will cost you about 4x as much as just getting 1-test while being less effective. Non-methylated hormones dont have good oral availability. Try m1t next time around when you have some experience under your belt & know how you react to 1-test.
03-26-2004, 01:18 PM
I gained and kept 12 lbs. in 2 weeks with S1+. It was my first PH cycle ever though, but results can be seen in 2 weeks.
03-26-2004, 02:32 PM
yes!! s1+ is the ****.. go that route first..Originally Posted by vicmack777
the ****ing bdc equiv made me too tired.. s1+ + BSL GO is the ****.
03-26-2004, 02:48 PM
SO refreshing to see a post by someone who actually took caution and did research before venturing into androgens!
To second (or third) what others have said, I would put off trying any methyl products until you have some androgen experience under your belt. Many are big fans of 1-test and 4AD, but for me, I would go with 4AD and 19Nor in a 2:1 ratio (topical of course). I just may be weird, but this worked much better than Super One.
03-27-2004, 10:48 AM
I also agree that M 1-T is not the way to go for a first cycle. Frankly, there is not a good reason to use it on any cycle (sides are too severe for the temporary benefits). The 1-T/4-AD combination in a 1:2 ratio is a good one for a 4-week cycle. You can also consider adding in 4-OHT to add some "estrogen control" if you are concerned about sides. These can all go in the same transdermal, which would make the ratios ~ 1:2:1.
03-27-2004, 11:58 AM
Ditto on holding off on the M1T. Also two thumbs up for 4-5 weeks using S1+.
03-27-2004, 02:14 PM
I really don't see anything wrong m1t as a first cycle as long as the user has done his homework and starts at a low dose.
After many weeks of reading, I took the plunge 9 days ago with 5 mg/day m1t. I'm taking taurine, drinking tons of water, getting plenty of rest, and eating a clean diet high calorie diet. I've gained 6 lbs, strength is up nicely, and I've had zero sides - no cramps, no lethargy, no high bp, etc. I only took the plunge after I read enough posts from people who had good experiences(and few sides) with low doses. I have a feeling I may be slightly underdosing, as my pumps aren't painful, and I've had no lower back cramps, but I've resisted the urge to bump up dosage, and will probably stay at 5 mg for 1 more week. While it may not be the best choice, I think a short low dosage cycle is an ok introduction to androgens.
03-28-2004, 05:43 AM
Thanks for all the replies everyone. Just a few more questions:
It seems I would still need nolvadex for a 4AD only cycle, so I might as well add 1-test to the mix. Would I need nolvadex on-hand if I used a 4AD/4OHT transdermal for 4 weeks? (I'm guessing yes)
I have not found a whole lot of info about 4OHT yet so I haven't made up my mind about adding it to the 1-test/4AD.
Is it true that oral 4AD is very weak? The only reason I could really see to take M1T as a first cycle is because it would be simpler to take an oral, but pointless if I'd still have to use it with a transdermal 4AD. Probably better off to try M1T in a later cycle. Even then, I'm sure I'd use only 10mg or less ED.
What kind of dosages should I be taking? I'm 6' 2", 195lbs.
I would like to try a 6 week cycle and if I start seeing problems, I can cut it short at 4 weeks. Depends if I'd have to buy a whole nother bottle though.
I've been looking through some older posts and noticed a few of you have been helping first timers like me for a while now. On behalf of all of us newbies, thank you.
Last edited by Moyer; 11-16-2005 at 04:12 AM.
03-28-2004, 10:35 AM
I don't see any problems at all with someones 1st cycle being 5mgs of M1-T. There are side effects to ALL these compounds, but 5mgs has proven to be an effective dose with few minor side effects.
Yes, oral 4-AD is 2-3 times less potent than dermal (meaning you have to take more). On the other hand, 4-AD is cheap and dermal application is a hassle.
03-30-2004, 02:42 PM
If you stay away from M 1-T, IMO you will be OK with 6-OXO. Nolva is always good insurance in case you start to develop gyno. Although unlikely, it is always a possibility until you have run a cycle or two and access your susceptibility.Originally Posted by Moyer
Based on what I have read, oral is the worst way to take 4-AD and transdermal is the best. The dosages also depend on how much active ingredient is in the transdermal. You would probably use two 2ml squirts, twice a day with the following concentrations:Originally Posted by Moyer
1-Test 2.5g/4-AD 5g in a 120ml bottle
1-Test 2.5g/4-AD 5g/4-OHT 2.5g in a 120ml bottle
4-AD 5g /4-OHT 2.5g in a 120ml bottle
You could also try 1 squirt twice a day for the first couple days to make sure you do not have an allergic reaction. This is especially true of transdermals containing 1-Test. I have zero problems with it, but it irritates the skin of others.
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