kidneys, not working at 100%...

[wiseguy15]

i got blood work done after a cycle, and everything came back normal that he said except my kidneys. i did not get them checked prior to the cycle but now he said they are working at 80%. i go tomorrow to get urine test for further evaluation. can he find what i took, should i tell them? hdrol xtren...if so is this normal and can i rebound? finished pct about a month or two ago...

any suggestions. im still taking milk thistle and did proper pct.

 

[urbanski]

i'd like to know the actual lab values which were abnormal.

 

[UnrealMachine]

How much water were you drinking on cycle? I know a gallon a day is the # that people spit out a lot but based on how much I drink, a gallon a day is more like an absolute bare minimum than a goal. Between the cycle and the protein intake, it's pretty important. If hydration is not the issue then nevermind.

 

[Rodja]

It could just be a simple electrolyte imbalance. Lots of people drink enough water, but are still not "hydrated" because of improper, Ca, K, and Mg intake.

 

[UnrealMachine]

It could just be a simple electrolyte imbalance. Lots of people drink enough water, but are still not "hydrated" because of improper, Ca, K, and Mg intake.

what foods or supplements would you eat to fix this?

 

[Rodja]

Potatoes are really high in potassium, calcium is high in dairy foods/products (including most whey powders), but magnesium is the tricky one. Along with zinc, this is the most common mineral deficiency. Almonds and cashews are the best sources along with their EFA benefits.

 

[urbanski]

unfortunately if he is in renal failure then too much K is a huge problem. that's why i need the actual tests and values

 

[Jayhawkk]

Don't supplement potassium unless you're told to. just wait for the next results and let the doctor figure it out on their own.

 

[wiseguy15]

its a long list...which actual results?

 

[wiseguy15]

also i appreciate the help with this. tomorrow i gotta go for a urine test for further analysis. and from there if it is abnormal, i gotta see a renal specialist. also might have to get an ultra sound as well.

 

[gamer2be08]

Eat nannas xD...

 

[Jayhawkk]

The reason I say don't do anything is that your kidneys are obviously coming up short and anything you do can throw the doc off on what the actual problems are and you can further damage your health. If the solution isn't obvious after the testing is completed and he's worried then i'd give out any information you have to supplements you've taken.

 

[Rodja]

I'm not a big of K supplementation under any circumstances.

 

[Jayhawkk]

I was supplementing with it and my doc damn near took my head off.

 

[Trauma1]

its a long list...which actual results?

-Bun
-Creatinine
-GFR
-Na (sodium)
-K (potassium)
-Cl (Chloride)
-CO2

Post those up and I can give you some insight here in terms of the lab results. You definitely need to follow-up regardless with the referral if your PMD suggests it.

DO NOT supplement with anything additional unless directed by your PMD at this time.

Were you taking any creatine while on-cycle?

 

[wiseguy15]

thanks for your help and only creatine i was taking was what was in bcaas i was taking...and pre-work out. and yes, i did drink ALOT of water..so i thought..never kept track...

results...

-Bun....25H
-Creatinine.....1.39 H
-GFR......if you mean EGFR.....67
-Na (sodium)......140
-K (potassium)......4.5

my test came back at 331 also


what he stated in his note that my blood sugar was slightly high...104, also there was evidence for mild kidney impairment, they are similar to one year, they got slightly higher but not significantly.


-Cl (Chloride)
-CO2

 

[bb4life]

probably the xtren that did it... should come back quickly

 

[urbanski]

the BUN and creatinine can be explained with extra protein ingestion and extra LBM. they're probably doing a 24 hour urine for protein and creatinine clearance. the spot GFR they do isnt always accurate, and the 24hr calculation should take into account your body weight and age.
The creatinine of 1.39 is a bit high so it will be wise to follow along with the workup. This is exactly why i never check mine, I dont want to know.

 

[Trauma1]

thanks for your help and only creatine i was taking was what was in bcaas i was taking...and pre-work out. and yes, i did drink ALOT of water..so i thought..never kept track...

results...

-Bun....25H
-Creatinine.....1.39 H
-GFR......if you mean EGFR.....67
-Na (sodium)......140
-K (potassium)......4.5

my test came back at 331 also


what he stated in his note that my blood sugar was slightly high...104, also there was evidence for mild kidney impairment, they are similar to one year, they got slightly higher but not significantly.


-Cl (Chloride)
-CO2

That's a fairly mild renal insufficiency based on your results. My guess is that they'll repeat your labs in a few weeks and then go from there. The most common cause of a renal insufficiency in an otherwise healthy young guy (which I assume you don't have any significant medical problems) is secondary to a fluid volume deficit or dehydration.

BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen) can be influenced by increased protein intake, but creatinine shouldn't be and is a better indicator of overall renal function. It's important to have both values to correlate the possible etiology. Creatine use will also influence the results a bit through increased intravascular departmental shifting of fluid. Sometimes it can seem like you're drinking enough water, but the overall requirement can be higher than you thought. I wouldn't take anything outside a multivitamin at this time and have you repeat labs done. I'm fairly confident that they'll (BUN/Creatinine) show improvement. If not, you'll be referred to a nephrologist for further testing.

Follow-up for certain to make sure all is well. This is why I ALWAYS recommend guys have baseline lab values to correlate with future testing. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

Edit: Also when/if kidney function begins to deteriorate, Potassium will be retained through functional loss of the kidney itself, and often hyperkalemia (high potassium) will be noted on the basic chemistry panel. That will vary depending how impaired the renal function is. This really doesn't pertain to your situation here based on what you've posted; I just though I'd comment on it. Your sodium and potassium are completely normal.

 

[HATEFULone]

I fully agree with Trauma1, seems like ATN(Acute tubular necrosis) from being a little dry, should resovle itself, also what are you taking for pct, nolva and some other serms can have an effect on your renal function i.e. creatinine, bun.

 

[wiseguy15]

really appreciate the input. my doctor had me nervous when he told my my kidneys weren't working right. but when im on a cycle, should i not take creatine? as pre work out? also for now, until results come back, should i not take not take any more bcaas, pre work out, cut back on protien intake? (which id hate to do, shake wise).

also my next cycle i was suppose to start in jan. was m14-e. im so pissed because i was suppose to start my cycle support yesterday but now that i found this out im holding off. should i until urine test come back or are these results i gave you "normal" in a sense for what we do?...

 

[urbanski]

serum creatinine is not an absolute, its relative to protein turnover and lean body mass. a Cr of 1.39 in an 80 year old 80lb woman is markedly abnormal.
Meanwhile a Cr of 1.39 in a young 185lb male who recently upped his protein turnover due to a PH is likely normal. Add in a bit of dehydration and you have the reason for his elevated BUN/Cr.
The 24 hour urine for protein and creatinine clearance will account for those factors by measuring total creatinine excreted depending on the formula used.

I found this
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/185_04_210806/tou11052_fm.html
which basically sums up what I am saying...that body habitus and age render the eGFR inaccurate. The doc needs to take in the whole clinical picture.

 

[wiseguy15]

urbanski...appreciate you knowledge on this..you too trauma1...feel alot better now about this..

in your opinions, think i should wait longer until my m14-e cycle and wait till i get the results back from the urine testing? just to be safe...

 

[Trauma1]

urbanski...appreciate you knowledge on this..you too trauma1...feel alot better now about this..

in your opinions, think i should wait longer until my m14-e cycle and wait till i get the results back from the urine testing? just to be safe...

Definitely don't start another cycle at this point; wait until you've had follow-up labs that note improvement with the mild renal insufficiency.

I'd tell him that you'd taken a product that contained creatine in it.

I had labs done a few years ago after had been on creatine (gluconate) for about 3 months. My BUN: 20, Creatinine: 1.4. After a few weeks of being off the creatine, my follow-up creatinine was 1.0.

If the BUN/Creatinine gets worse (which I highly doubt), they'll probably send you for a renal ultrasound to evaluate the size, function, and blood flow to the kidneys'.

 

[wiseguy15]

thank you...ill just have to wait till i get my other bcaa supp in and use that (because doesnt have creatine in it ) and stop my pre work out stuff...which sucks because i love that stuff...

anyways..ill keep everyone posted when i get more results back....

 

[hardknock]

Any update on this outcome?

 

[jeremiah0079]

Dude, I would say first off save the supplements for your pct to keep growing- ceatine,preworkouts and such. The only one yu need on cycle is your protein and liver and BP aids. Also drink cranberry juice while on cycle- this is the easiest and simplest way to keep the kidneys functioning. About a quart a day ought to do it. But personally I would wait a little longer on the m14e.

 

[Whacked]

Interesting. Please elaborate

nolva and some other serms can have an effect on your renal function i.e. creatinine, bun.

 

[jeremiah0079]

It's simple man, cranberry juice is an all natural way to clean your kidneys if you don't believe me ask one of your parents or grandparents- kind of like prune juice if you can't s**t. It takes a quart though to be effective, and 100% juice. If you don't want all the sugar just take the pills and double up on them. Also it works great for an insulin spike aftr work-outs(cranberry juice) and it will replenish the carbs you need that you just brned through in your workout. Try a quart a day on your next cycle and see if your kidneys don't feel better, let me know how it goes man.

 

[HATEFULone]

Interesting. Please elaborate

Even though most SERMs and metabolites are excreted mainly in the feces, a small percentage is excreted in the urine. That is not the problem. The issue comes in with the absorption/excretion of phosphate and calcium in the renal tubules which can cause a strain on the kidneys. If you have renal impairment SERMs should be used with caution. However, if one is post renal transplant SERMs, mainly raloxifen, have been used to protect the renal vessels but that is another story entirely.

 

[drchildress]

did your functions return to normal?

 

[Whacked]

Good info

Even though most SERMs and metabolites are excreted mainly in the feces, a small percentage is excreted in the urine. That is not the problem. The issue comes in with the absorption/excretion of phosphate and calcium in the renal tubules which can cause a strain on the kidneys. If you have renal impairment SERMs should be used with caution. However, if one is post renal transplant SERMs, mainly raloxifen, have been used to protect the renal vessels but that is another story entirely.

 

[CaponeCEO]

Bump. Update?

And if it hasn't already been mentioned a blood glucose, or chem-bg of 104 is not high by any means. The average blood sugar is 80-100 mg/dl. Yours was 104 mg/dl, practically normal. Basically the lab results, when off the "range", are highlighted by the MD's lab's computer in order to make them stand out. So since is was 4mg/dl over the range it highlighted it.

The kidney function is much more important, but I didn't want you to worry about the blood sugar component as well.