First trip to the dark side...

[teteak]

I am going to do my 1st cycle of illegals. I have ~7 years lifting experience, and I have tried various PHs and PSs including a 4-AD/1-andro stack, dienedrone for 4 weeks @ 100mg/day, and 2 epistane cycles of 4 weeks a piece, 20/30/30/40 and 40/40/40/40. I am 23, 5' 10", 160lb with bodyfat in the single digits. I have always been kind of a hard-gainer, but what I build is lean and sticks around.

I have a bunch of dbol right now, I was considering a dbol only cycle, but I have read enough flames on other posts that I am considering a stack with some Test-e. I am unsure right now for dosages; maybe dbol @ 30mg a day for weeks 1-6 and test @ 500mg for weeks 1-12? I would also run Arimidex @ 5mg EOD and do Swane's hcg protocol @ 250IU 2x/week. I would also have CS, fish oil, and cissus.

A few more questions: For PCT, should I use clomid and nolvadex? How long after my last injection would I start it? Would I do clomid 100/50/50 and nolvadex 20/20/20/20? And this may be a silly question, but am I going to blow up on this cycle? I am a little worried I will get too big too fast and be conspicuous as far as steroid use. I know I shouldn't care, b/c I love the size... how much weight do you think is feasible with this stack?

 

[Liftingstud]

So u have run 4 cycles and weight only 160lbs?!?!?!? What have u gained from them?

Before we talk more aas let's talk diet. Please share with me your daily diet. Meal for meal.

 

[heavypieces]

What's your diet look like? Can you list each meals with calories and macros?

HP

 

[teteak]

I build my diet around protein sources; typically on Sundays I will cook and entire bag of frozen chicken breasts or fish and hardboil 2 dozen eggs for the week. Breakfast is usually a protein shake with either cereal or bread with peanut butter and an apple. 3-4 hours later I eat 3 eggs or a chicken breast, 2 slices of bread, 3 cups of milk, and possibly a few cups of beans. I usually workout in the afternoon, then after I have 3/4 cup of oats mixed with a scoop of protein in water. An hour after that I eat another chicken breast, green beans, rice, and 3 cups of milk. 3-4 hours later I have toast with a slice of cheese or whatever happens to be in the fridge at the time - sometimes soup, spaghetti, maybe some hardboiled eggs, and more milk. Before bed I have a protein shake with milk, a handful of walnuts, and some veggies from the fridge.

 

[EasyEJL]

So u have run 4 cycles and weight only 160lbs?!?!?!? What have u gained from them?

at 5'10. even at single digit bodyfat, thats fairly small.

 

[EasyEJL]

so given that is all you've reached after 4 cycles, I think you dont have much to worry about as far as blowing up tons on cycle goes, as I dont think you are eating enough to make real gains.

 

[UnrealMachine]

x2 the diet isn't bad, i would shift quite a few things around, but overall i can tell you aren't getting enough calories.

"hard gainer" i keep reading this too much, to me it means you don't gain fat as easily as me and thus can afford to eat more calories and carbs without getting fat, so do it

The meal that looks like your dinner, the toast, cheese and third random component, some of that stuff should just be dropped and replaced with a good meat source like a grilled steak

 

[Liftingstud]

I would say u need 3200 to 3600 cals a day and you are no where close to that. Diet needs an overhaul to get cals in there.

 

[teteak]

ok well, I will work on piling on the calories in my diet with more beans, meat, and whole milk. Can anyone give me any advice on the questions I had? Either way I am going to be doing this cycle, but any help is appreciated!

 

[Liftingstud]

Might want to use .5mg of adex not 5mg.

Looks fine maybe dbol for 4-5 wks.

Who cares what others think. Tell them u have been eating a bunch more.

Another good one:
"I want to use roids but not get too big too fast"
lol

seriously I would get ur diet in check first. If u don't eat all the anabolics in the world don't matter.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I wish i could get too big too fast, lol. I'm pumping 1g of test and i'm not making a fraction of the gains I made when I first started lifting weights, oh i miss those newbie gains. Bring on the stretchmarks!

My other random comment is that there's no "trip to the darkside" once you cross the line you never go back. You'll never be "natural" again. Which is pretty good because to me "natural" is just the absence of something and in itself it has no favorable qualities.

Testosterone is natural, so I'm 1000% natural. Way better than just being plain natural. People only brag about being natural because they know they are just a weak shadow of what they could be.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

1 g of test! damnnn man. you dont blow up on test/deca/dbol/eq?

also dude 160? come on now. 6 weeks of dbol seems liek a lot too i dont know how long people usually run it. your set up looks good id eat more carbs.

 

[gamer2be08]

I build my diet around protein sources; typically on Sundays I will cook and entire bag of frozen chicken breasts or fish and hardboil 2 dozen eggs for the week. Breakfast is usually a protein shake with either cereal or bread with peanut butter and an apple. 3-4 hours later I eat 3 eggs or a chicken breast, 2 slices of bread, 3 cups of milk, and possibly a few cups of beans. I usually workout in the afternoon, then after I have 3/4 cup of oats mixed with a scoop of protein in water. An hour after that I eat another chicken breast, green beans, rice, and 3 cups of milk. 3-4 hours later I have toast with a slice of cheese or whatever happens to be in the fridge at the time - sometimes soup, spaghetti, maybe some hardboiled eggs, and more milk. Before bed I have a protein shake with milk, a handful of walnuts, and some veggies from the fridge.

Hmmm, from what I am seeing, you are wasting a lot of protein. To my understanding, your body can only digest and absorb up to 30 grams of protein per hour. You do not need to drink a protein shake when you are already receiving 30+ grams of fast acting proteins in your meals; it would be more beneficial and less wasteful to drink the shake an hour or so after you have eaten the meal. Now you can do a protein shake and milk as milk is about 80 percent casein (slow digesting) protein; the fast acting protein will absorb within the hour and the casein will continue to be absorbed for 4 hours+...

 

[heavypieces]

I build my diet around protein sources; typically on Sundays I will cook and entire bag of frozen chicken breasts or fish and hardboil 2 dozen eggs for the week. Breakfast is usually a protein shake with either cereal or bread with peanut butter and an apple. 3-4 hours later I eat 3 eggs or a chicken breast, 2 slices of bread, 3 cups of milk, and possibly a few cups of beans. I usually workout in the afternoon, then after I have 3/4 cup of oats mixed with a scoop of protein in water. An hour after that I eat another chicken breast, green beans, rice, and 3 cups of milk. 3-4 hours later I have toast with a slice of cheese or whatever happens to be in the fridge at the time - sometimes soup, spaghetti, maybe some hardboiled eggs, and more milk. Before bed I have a protein shake with milk, a handful of walnuts, and some veggies from the fridge.

Start logging it in list format with calories and macros right next to each food. You need to be systematic with this part of your plan or you are going to just spin your wheels.

 

[teteak]

ok I'll spend a lot more time than I have been focusing on my diet. I really appreciate all of your comments.

 

[EasyEJL]

you can use fitday.com, it works pretty well

 

[juice3320]

ok I'll spend a lot more time than I have been focusing on my diet. I really appreciate all of your comments.

Dude diet diet diet. 160lbs after 4 cycles is very weak man (no offense bro). Check out the Lean Mass Diet over at bodybuilding.com. It will give you sample meal plans as well as all the meal plans display the total calories and macros that you need to make sure you are getting enough. You should probably use the 4000cal plan (man I wish I could say that for myself :32 and add some protein shakes in here and there as well to make sure you are getting enough protein. If you do this and train right you WILL blow up instead of still being 160lbs before and after your cycle.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

I dont know about you but I didnt gain any weight till i started to eat carbs and casien shake at bedtime and also started to hit heavy legs along with hitting only 1 part of my body a day. for example just chest, just arms etc. Also I shredd them when I hit them up hit a ton of heavy lifts. if you are a hard gainer you must be really lean so why not carb load.

 

[neverstop]

cassein shake at night when "on" is required imo. I'm also a "hard gainer" and so a morning and sometimes afternoon cytogainer shake is also required if I wan't to put on weight quick. I'd bulk naturually to 170 first, you know it is possible and will be a good chance to fine tune your diet. You'll get SO much more out of your cycle afterwards.

 

[teteak]

I've been packing down the calories for about a week and the scale says I am up 3 or so pounds...I think good times are ahead, friends

 

[CCV3]

Up the test to about 650mg a week if you can. The little extra will go a long way.

Be sure to spread out your dbol if you are getting the 5mg tabs. I take one or two every couple of hours, the increase in blood pressure makes me feel like jumping through the roof, plus its a little rough on the stomach. You may handle it differently though. Last time I did 6 weeks of dbol I upped to 40mg the last week, bad idea. made my arms feel like they were going to explode.

If you think you are eating enough, you aren't. My last cycle included dbol, and I know I could have gained more if I ate more. I was throwing down a good 4K calories a day, plus 2 and a half protein shakes. Anytime you feel like eating, can eat, etc....EAT. I did a cycle simalr to yours. Test (andropen), eq, dbol, and went from 155 to 172 in 6 weeks, given that a good half of it was probably water weight.

 

[dpfisher]

I am a little worried I will get too big too fast and be conspicuous as far as steroid use. I know I shouldn't care, b/c I love the size..

Dude if you weigh 160 it ain't gonna be conspicuous. You're gonna have to eat an assload more anyway so just tell people you've been eating big and lifting big. (If they even ask)

 

[luke97]

DO NOT DO ORAL ONLY CYCLE!! It is a huge waste.
-First of all I would definitely focus on eating at least 4k calories a day...like previously stated, eat as much as you can if you are trying to gain.
-Definitely run test-e for your cycle, however, you need to play around with the dosages of test till you find your proper dosing..too much and you are just wasting it and risk "test-flu". I'd probably start at 400 mg/week and I would not run anything higher than 600mg/week for your first cycle. D-bol shouldn't be run for more than the first 4 weeks of your cycle, it is used mainly to "jumpstart" your gains.
As far as your PCT goes, if you are running test-e, it has a long half-life (10.5 days) so the recommended wait time to start is 2 weeks from your last injection...this gives enough time to make sure the test is out of your system.

 

[seancho]

your diet is fairly lean. multiply your body weight by 15 or 20 and that should be the amount of carbs you should be consuming. remember, without bulking you're only going to gain very few pounds of muscle a year. CARB LOAD, BULK, THEN CUT!

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

damn id hate to be a hard gainer. if i took any desinger steroid right now i know it would be easy to get over 10 pounds. shoot i cant even imagine a stack or a injection cycle. carb up. i eat carbs all day and i gain steady.

 

[metalman]

Honestly you may want to consider holding off on the cycle until you can see a steady increase in your weight without test. Either way, the problem with your diet is that you are not eating enough. If you are truly a hardgainer....then you simply get to eat more and not get fat. Soo eat! Try hitting 5000 cals and see if you are putting on muscle or if you are getting fatter? Still lean? Eat more!..... You could easily hit 190 on this cycle if you are eating.

Basically max out the amount of food you can put in your body without increasing your bodyfat significantly and you will be happy.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

lift heavy and hard and hit legs really heavy. start aiming for big numbers