Test P + Anavar or Winni for summer recomp question.

[abuleh]

Hello,

I am 36yrs old currently 209lbs with 11% bf, was training in my early 20's with AAS experience and back in the game since 4yrs. My diet and tp are in check. I usually train 3x-4x a week. This will be my first AAS/pinning cycle in a long time. Have been on the ph/ps track over the last 3-4 yrs.

For April n.y. I am planning a mild 12wks Test P cycle. Goal is to recomp, harden up and get a nice summer look + gain maybe 10-12lbs lean muscle.

Test P dosage 50mg eod (maybe go up to 100mg eod depending on progress). Since this is not a bulk I was thinking of stacking either Winni @50 ed or var @50 ed for the hard look. I was thinking of adding Formex @25mg ed to keep estrogen related sides at bay (even neccessary?, or Adex???).

PCT Nolva/Clomid:

Nolva: 40,20,20,20
Clomid 50,50,50,50

I appreciate any tweak, opinion or recommendation/ advice. Also do you think my goals are realistic with this cycle? Would I get away with a Nolva only PCT?

Thanks

~abuleh

 

[nosnmiveins]

100mg eod is perfect, in my opinion 50mg eod is just too small of a dose to make decent gains on. either the addtion of winny or anavar is fine. 50mg is fine for whichever u choose.

u cant try the formex on cycle, but just know that its not AS powerful as a real AI

 

[abuleh]

Thanks man, I also believe that even 100mg eod is still a mild cycle.

How do you see the advantage/ disadvantage of var vs. winny?
I've not run either one but I think var would be more expensive and easier on the liver + overall sides would be low. Winny would probably be stronger and have better results + cheaper but more sides and a higher liver toxity. What do you think?

Any opinions on the PCT protocol? Does anybody think hcg would be a nice add, either on cycle or first 2 wks in PCT to get the boys faster back to normal size???


Thanks
~abuleh

 

[UnrealMachine]

yeah 50mg eod is way too low with prop, that's a useless dose, I feel even 100 is on the low side.

I would vote for winny, it's stronger, causes better grainy hardness, and probably better strength. The main advantage of var is being able to run it longer.

i don't see anything wrong with your PCT. If you're going to use HCG, use it on cycle rather than in PCT. There's a few ways to run it though.

 

[abuleh]

Thanks Unreal, I appreciate your input + experience here. Maybe I'll kick it off with 100mg eod and increase the dose if the desired results lack.

About the Winny being stronger, thats what I thought from reading about the compound too. Do you think it would be ok to go 12 wks with it though in terms of liver toxicity? I was thinking about the orals because I do not want to pin everyday. Maybe just add the winny the last 6-8 wks?

~abuleh

 

[UnrealMachine]

no way you can do oral winny for 12 weeks that's crazy. I'd do 6 weeks tops if you're taking it orally. Though I would rather inject it everyday, you get more out of it that way.

 

[SeanyK]

i know prop CAN be shot eod, and that many people do shoot it eod, but all i can say is why wouldn't you want to maximize T level stability throughout your weeks, instead of have it dip and climb just even a little bit towards the night/early morning of the next day you shoot. think about it.... you shoot 50mg eod the only thing thats going to happen is your nuts will atrophy, shrivel up, look like raisins, and walla... 12 weeks down the road, nothing. thats basically a TRT dose right there. I would not expect that much more anabolism compared to if i wasnt cycling at all.

Prop is talked about being such a painful monster.... it's where i started and i'm loving it. the mast i use is also prop ester. i shoot around 125ish mg of total androgen every day, rotate injection sites between glutes and quads, and havn't had a single complaint. No pain, only slight soreness which comes on 2-3 days after injection, nothing bad...feels like someone gave you a nice punch or kick in the ass/quad. this doesn't even happen all the time tho. all i'm saying, is you might wana up the dose on your test p to the 100eod they suggested, 50 ed, or somewhere in the middle. i dont mind pinning AT ALL, in fact i ****in' love pinning, but i am a sick f*ck, so that will be up to you. ed will no doubts give you your stablest levels.

17AA oral for 12 weeks = bad idea... even var... var i wouldnt dare go over 8 weeks. your cholesterol is gonna be maddd F'ed up. the winni will do the same thing as well as wreak havoc (not the ds, the word) on your joints and ligaments. 6 weeks tops as unreal already said.

 

[abuleh]

Thanks guys, I really appreaciate your advice. I was looking at unreal's cycle log and damn dude that sh!t is crazy lol. Looking at that I feel like a complete newb. Good luck with your cycle though.......

Anyway taking what you're saying into account I think I will do test p 100mg eod for 12 wks. I will add the winny in wk 7 and run it until wk 12 (6wks) @50mg. I will also get some Adex to control estrogen. What would be a good dose iyo? I don't want to kill estrogen but as I said I want to control it and prevent sides like gyno and bloat.....

Thanks

~abuleh

 

[neverstop]

I know winny is stronger but I'd still prefer anavar, particularly for cutting since you can run it longer, it's less punishing on your body, and winny is WAY hard on your prostate and hair line. just me though.

 

[abuleh]

I know winny is stronger but I'd still prefer anavar, particularly for cutting since you can run it longer, it's less punishing on your body, and winny is WAY hard on your prostate and hair line. just me though.

I wanna try var since a long time because I heard its pretty good in burning fat too....

 

[UnrealMachine]

Neverstop you bring up a good point. How about this thinking: winny will make you look more photo-shoot ready, while anavar has more functionality when it actually comes to cutting fat?

My reasoning for the winny was that it would be run at the end of the cycle and is mostly there for hardening and aesthetic reasons. If anavar were employed I would probably run it during the first 6-8 weeks of the cycle, but at a good dose like 60-70mg

 

[Smiley]

Thanks guys, I really appreaciate your advice. I was looking at unreal's cycle log and damn dude that sh!t is crazy lol. Looking at that I feel like a complete newb. Good luck with your cycle though.......

Anyway taking what you're saying into account I think I will do test p 100mg eod for 12 wks. I will add the winny in wk 7 and run it until wk 12 (6wks) @50mg. I will also get some Adex to control estrogen. What would be a good dose iyo? I don't want to kill estrogen but as I said I want to control it and prevent sides like gyno and bloat.....

Thanks

~abuleh

With either var or winny you can just run it up to pct. No reason to stop it with your injections unless you just want to.

If this was my cycle, i would kick off the cycle with var and get a blood test around 6/7 weeks. If your values are good to go, run the var all the way through your test. If not stop it there. Var is really mild enough that you shouldnt have big problems though. Price might be an issue here if you're buying tabs.

As far as i know winny doesnt help shed fat any more than other AAS. Its more the look and feel of it while on that goes away after you finish the cycle. Var has direct action in burning fat. Specifically fat around the mid section.

Just my 2cents.

 

[bLacKjAck.]

Var has direct action in burning fat. Specifically fat around the mid section.

Really? Explain...

 

[UnrealMachine]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/128375-why-anavar-burns.html

 

[bLacKjAck.]

Hmm. I have run it several times and never noticed any difference really. As in different from really any other gear.

 

[Liftingstud]

Could on start off a test cycle with var for about 6 wks then switch to winni to really harden up for last 5 wks?

 

[Smiley]

Thanks for the backup unreal.

Hmm. I have run it several times and never noticed any difference really. As in different from really any other gear.

The effect is probably more pronounced because it was being used on old fat guys. You were also probably stacking it while using it for a shorter time. Any loss in fat was probably given credit to the entire cycle and your training. It would be some cool research if you took readings of your bodyfat in different places to test the study on yourself. It might be too mild to see if you're running a ****tail though.

Any updates on what the OP decided?

 

[abuleh]

Thanks for the backup unreal.



The effect is probably more pronounced because it was being used on old fat guys. You were also probably stacking it while using it for a shorter time. Any loss in fat was probably given credit to the entire cycle and your training. It would be some cool research if you took readings of your bodyfat in different places to test the study on yourself. It might be too mild to see if you're running a ****tail though.

Any updates on what the OP decided?

Thanks guys for all your info here. The anavar looks really interesting and I think I will go with the anavar instead of the winny. A friend of mine and I will run the cycle together and we will help eachother out with the pinning (no homo) + train together. We were discussing your info and decided to run 12wks test p at 100mg eod and run the anavar @50mg for the last 8wks of the cycle to harden up and burn some fat. Winny remains interesting for future cycles but I will try to find the injectable version of it to decrease liver toxicity.

We are still unclear about the exact start of the cycle but are looking for arround mid of March. If you want I will let you guys know how it goes!??

Thanks again

~abuleh

 

[Smiley]

Definitely let us know how it goes for you. You and your friend should start a cycle log.