First Cycle. This is my plan - AnabolicMinds.com

First Cycle. This is my plan

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    Yimen E.Cricket's Avatar
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    First Cycle. still tryin to figure it out.


    Thinking about my first cycle.

    Weeks 1-10 test prop 75mg/ED or 150mg/EOD
    Weeks 1-10 Liquidex .5mg ED (I am afraid of gyno.)
    Weeks 3-10 HCG 250ui/ 2x week
    Weeks 11-15 nolva 40/30/20/10

    thinking of using clen or ephedra to block cortisol PCT as well.

    Any suggestions?

    Can i make good gains while blocking aromitization? Am i being a puss with the liquidex?
    Last edited by Yimen E.Cricket; 03-14-2004 at 10:06 PM.

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    That cycle should definitely work well. If it was me, I'd change the l-dex to .5mg EOD, and bump the hcg to 500iu 2x a week.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Liquidex is not the thing you want if your scared of gyno, Nolva is ESPECIALLY with HCG.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
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    Bobo,
    Are you recommending nolva throughout the cycle? Or are you saying save the anti-e till absolutely necessary?

    I thought the liquidex through the whole cycle would keep estrogen in check so it would control gyno as well.
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    I'd run the prop EOD at 150mg. IMO no need to shoot prop everyday, I noticed no difference in ED to EOD shots of it. Less shots is always my favorite way of going.
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    Yimen-when are you planning on beginning this cycle?

    I'm planning on my first in November, but am looking into Test cyp., 500mg per week, only because I can get it legally, then brew it myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yimen E.Cricket
    Bobo,
    Are you recommending nolva throughout the cycle? Or are you saying save the anti-e till absolutely necessary?

    I thought the liquidex through the whole cycle would keep estrogen in check so it would control gyno as well.
    The liquidex will only prevent the conversion of test into estrogen. It will not keep the HCG from doing you in.

    BTW why run the HCG 3-10? Is there any benifet to doing it that way instead of using it PCT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skye
    The liquidex will only prevent the conversion of test into estrogen. It will not keep the HCG from doing you in.

    BTW why run the HCG 3-10? Is there any benifet to doing it that way instead of using it PCT?
    i was reading swales PCT therapy SWALES PCT protocol

    He says to use hcg throughout the cycle at 250 or 500 2x a week.
    He also recommends using arimidex through the cycle.

    Maybe i will just keep the HCG for post cycle while i am using the nolva.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuffs
    Yimen-when are you planning on beginning this cycle?

    I'm planning on my first in November, but am looking into Test cyp., 500mg per week, only because I can get it legally, then brew it myself.

    I am just researching right now. I am trying to reach my natural limit first.
    Maybe later this fall. Right now i am just trying to learn.
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    HCG use should be used throughout the cycle so it will prevent testicular hypertrophy to begin with. It can also be used at the beginning of post cycle to kind of jump start the your PCT. But if you can run it the whole cycle, it's better to keep the boys full size than trying to get them back after all ready shrunken, and will lead to a better PCT.

    Haven't done this yet, but from all that I've read, this is the best way IMO and what I'll be doin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    HCG use should be used throughout the cycle so it will prevent testicular hypertrophy to begin with. It can also be used at the beginning of post cycle to kind of jump start the your PCT. But if you can run it the whole cycle, it's better to keep the boys full size than trying to get them back after all ready shrunken, and will lead to a better PCT.

    Haven't done this yet, but from all that I've read, this is the best way IMO and what I'll be doin.
    that was my original plan.

    But everyone says to run an anti-e with HCG, Swale said to use arimidex through the whole cycle.
    But some are saying hcg can increase estrogen (i assume through another pathway other than aromization since l-dex wont help) and nolva should be used.

    I am confused.
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    You can use Arimimdex to keep estrogen levels low but that does not mean you won't get gyno. It will just help with bloat and keep estrogen within normal physiological levels. Estrogen just needs to be present for you to form gyno and the best defesne against gyno is Nolva. What I would do is run Adex at a low dose EOD or every 3rd day then run 20mg EOD throughout. If gyno symptoms start to arise (which they shouldn't) just increase your Nolva dosage. Do NOT use HCG during PCT. Use it during your cycle then start normal PCT (Nolva).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yimen E.Cricket
    i was reading swales PCT therapy SWALES PCT protocol

    He says to use hcg throughout the cycle at 250 or 500 2x a week.
    He also recommends using arimidex through the cycle.

    Maybe i will just keep the HCG for post cycle while i am using the nolva.
    good read. Thanks
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    Bobo I am interested in what you are saying, doesnt gyno usually form in the presecence of an estrogen heavy t-e axis? I would assume that keeping e within normal limits would at least make it much less likely to get gyno? I am asking for clarification not arguing Ive never used liquidex due to its negative effects on lipid profiles...but Im still interested.
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    Bobo,
    Is this what you are saying?

    Weeks 1-10 test prop 150mg/EOD
    Weeks 1-10 .5mg L/dex EOD
    Weeks 1-10 20mg nolva EOD
    weeks 1-10 HCG 500iu 2x a week
    weeks 11-15 nolva 40/30/20/10

    Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by Yimen E.Cricket; 03-18-2004 at 11:03 AM.
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    Maybe .4mg on the l-dex even. All I would change at this point is the HCG from 1-10, to 2-11, and maybe consider one more week of nolva at 10mg.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast
    Maybe .4mg on the l-dex even. All I would change at this point is the HCG from 1-10, to 2-11, and maybe consider one more week of nolva at 10mg.

    ManBeast
    Since HCG is supressive on its own, why would he do that manbeast? Wouldn't he be basically wasting that first week of his PCT? Thats what I thought, maybe I'm wrong, still learning here as well...

    For LH response, doesn't the test levels have to be around a certain high normal level for the SERM to take effect?

    Yimen, good luck with it brother, let us know how it treats you...
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    Yes, HCG is a bit suppressive, but far less so than the hormones IMHO, and it might be able to give him a bit of an "oomph" back into production at the very beginning of PCT.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Personally I don't feel HCG would be necessary. Not for a 10 weeker. I would run .25mg arimidex ed and 10 mg nolva ed. Taper off arimidex during PCT. IMO clomid/nolva combo works best for PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saggy
    Personally I don't feel HCG would be necessary. Not for a 10 weeker. I would run .25mg arimidex ed and 10 mg nolva ed. Taper off arimidex during PCT. IMO clomid/nolva combo works best for PCT.
    i totally agree, if you are only running test prop, you dont need HCG. Save it for a deca cycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saggy
    Personally I don't feel HCG would be necessary. Not for a 10 weeker. I would run .25mg arimidex ed and 10 mg nolva ed. Taper off arimidex during PCT. IMO clomid/nolva combo works best for PCT.

    It may not be necessary, but i bet it helps recovery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast
    Maybe .4mg on the l-dex even. All I would change at this point is the HCG from 1-10, to 2-11, and maybe consider one more week of nolva at 10mg.

    ManBeast
    Thanks,
    I appreciate your input. I agree and i will run it this way.

    Thanks again Manbeast
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    Anytime.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yimen E.Cricket
    It may not be necessary, but i bet it helps recovery.
    yes i agree with you there, but what i am implying is that if you are only running test prop, there maybe very little difference (if any) by using a clomid/nolva combo for PCT and saving some money on the HCG.
    If you dont really mind spending the extra dough, go ahead, great idea to incorporate HCG, but I personally dont feel that there will be much noticeable difference when running test prop alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNut
    yes i agree with you there, but what i am implying is that if you are only running test prop, there maybe very little difference (if any) by using a clomid/nolva combo for PCT and saving some money on the HCG.
    If you dont really mind spending the extra dough, go ahead, great idea to incorporate HCG, but I personally dont feel that there will be much noticeable difference when running test prop alone.
    Yes, just like there is really no sense in running both clomid/nolva as you do. If HCG is around and you have the dough to spend on it, why not? PCT, IMO, is more important or just as important as the cycle itself.
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    Umm... why would it matter that he is running prop? 10 weeks of prop will be just as suppressive as 10 weeks of enan. The ester only effects how long it takes the compound to release into the bloodstream.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Letrozole stops the aromatization of testosterone into estrogen while Nolvadex stops estrogen from working, The thing is not all steroids aromatize and therefore not all estrogen problems come from Aromatization. Thats where Nolvadex is your best friend because it stops the action of estrogen in its tracks.

    Now HCG is great to use in any cycle but not NECESSARY in smaller cycles like the one your following. Like everything HCG has a bad side, what it does is stimulate the Gonads to produce more test but this test can AROMATIZE into estrogen and thats where the Letrozole will come in handy even though the Nolvadex can still handle this problem.

    Personally I would run the cycle like this:

    Weeks 1-10 Prop 150mg EOD
    Weeks 1-10 HCG 500 IU twice a week
    Weeks 1-10 .25mg Letrozole ED
    Weeks 11-12 40 mg Nolva
    Weeks 13-14 20 mg Nolva.
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