A little dilema(pct related)

[castro]

Hello everyone,

I'm into day 10 of pct after a 4 week mit cycle which yielded some great gains,actually some of the best in my 6 year lifting career.Well benching is stalled at 230x4 as are rows and belt squats.I'm still adding a little bit of iron(1-2#s)to presses but i'm beggining to feel this cycle has stalled.My question is if i cycle down my lifts as i always do about 70-80% and work up would i loose my gains i have made with mit?

Or would it be wise to keep pushing and wait till i finish the pct before cycling down with the weight?I lift three times a week compared to 4 when i was on cycle.I would hate to cycle down and end up where i started before the mit.Thanks.

Ps for what it's worth pct is 2weeks 40mg,2weeks 20 mgNolva and started creatine.I hope this is the right forum since it is ph related

 

[Longdog]

The idea of lowering training volume is to lower it during your PCT. M1t has a half life of around 12-15 hours, so its out of your system the day after your last dose. At that point, your test levels are extremely low & it takes Nolva 3-4 weeks to get them near normal again. It is real easy to overtrain while your body is in this state. Basically, you should've already been cycling down your training volume from day 1 of PCT. Reducing training volume is recommended to help you keep your gains by avoiding overtraining.

I always reduce volume immediately after a cycle & stay that way for 3-4 weeks during PCT. I then gradually increase back to normal. I usually keep virtually all of my gains. You should still train hard, just a few less sets & an extra day off, etc.

 

[castro]

I did decrease overall volume the thing is i'm not able to increase the weight at all on bench so i was thinking of just dropping back down to 70-80% and work back up.The volume is low and i'm trying to avoid failure but i stalled at the same weight and reps.Here is my lifting days...

Mon-bench 3x5
one arm press dbell 2x8
dips bwx12-15 2 sets
rear delt raises 2x15-20
Lfly 2x15
belt squats 2x12

Wed, Dbell row 3x6
snatch grip deadlift(from knees)3x8
shrugs 2x6-8
hypers 2x15
forearm work and weighted crunches

Fri,Close grip bench 3x5-8
Bb oh press 3x5
bent arm pullovers 2x6-8
tri ext 2-3 sets just a finisher

Obviously i add a day and more sets while "on".See i's really not much at all but i am lifting at max almost all the time since it's the tail end of the cycle.Maybe it's time to change the routine been on it 3 months.Thoughts?

 

[farmer]

As has already been said, your recovery is not going to be what it was until your thru PCT and test levels return. Even then, it may not be what it was while on. I personally always drop down to two exercises per body part during PCT and do low volume with as much weight as I can, which is not alot different than what I do the rest of the time.

Overtraining will take away more of your gains than just about anything, at anytime, but especially during PCT. Drop your training down to a couple of sets per body part and split it three days a week, but give it all you got on those few sets. After PCT is over, you might look at changing some things in your workout.

I'm kinda gunshy about giving training advice, so let me say this right now. This has always worked for me and may not work for you or anyone else. These are my theories and have never let me down.

 

[castro]

Yaeh i'm going to just drop everything to 2 sets.Once the pct is over i am changing the outine anyways..Thanks that cleared up my questions.Thanks.

 

[neckcrank]

The idea of lowering training volume is to lower it during your PCT. M1t has a half life of around 12-15 hours, so its out of your system the day after your last dose. At that point, your test levels are extremely low & it takes Nolva 3-4 weeks to get them near normal again. It is real easy to overtrain while your body is in this state. Basically, you should've already been cycling down your training volume from day 1 of PCT. Reducing training volume is recommended to help you keep your gains by avoiding overtraining.

I always reduce volume immediately after a cycle & stay that way for 3-4 weeks during PCT. I then gradually increase back to normal. I usually keep virtually all of my gains. You should still train hard, just a few less sets & an extra day off, etc.

This was an excellent post...good info. Longdog

 

[Longdog]

I don't think its reasonable to expect any noticeable strength or mass gains for a month or so post cycle. Some people continue to gain for a few days after, but once all the androgens clear your system, it stops.The best we can hope for is to keep most of the hard-earned gains from the cycle. It sucks to be stagnant for a while, but its a necessary evil to cycling.

Just keep your calories hard & avoid overtraining. You should be making strength/mass gains again soon.

 

[jweave23]

Everyone is different for training, but Longdog bascially summed it up. I don't decrease weight post cycle, just volume. Maybe you just need to try some different training tricks for bench (i.e static holds, floor presses, tricep work, etc).

 

[bioman]

I don't think its reasonable to expect any noticeable strength or mass gains for a month or so post cycle. Some people continue to gain for a few days after, but once all the androgens clear your system, it stops.The best we can hope for is to keep most of the hard-earned gains from the cycle. It sucks to be stagnant for a while, but its a necessary evil to cycling.

Just keep your calories hard & avoid overtraining. You should be making strength/mass gains again soon.

I agree 100%. I follow a similar PCT training protocol with essentially no lifting the first two weeks of PCT, especially after a 4 week or longer cycle of methyls. Psychologically this is rough going for two weeks but I feel it helps to recover from any overtraining that I may have been in AND avoid muscle tear down/ lack of recovery ability that would likely occur with no test in your system.

I'm in week 3 of PCT and have lost about 3 pounds of water. Strength and LBM gains are still hanging on.

 

[MarcusG]

Stopping lifts for the first 2 weeks might be good if you're following some periodization program and you're going to have to take time off anyway.

 

[Longdog]

Bioman-
I've never actually taken more than a few days off post cycle, but your method sounds interesting. I start PCT in a few days myself after 4 weeks m1t/4ad & I may try a week off. I think 2 weeks off is too extreme for me. I have always been one to lose it real fast. I start to look flat after a few days off.

 

[Cuffs]

I like the one week off plan myself. Worked for me the last time. I felt guilty for not training, but when I started up again, I felt great and refreshed.

Castro-
During your PCT have you kept your calories high? Some people tend to lower their cals and/or carbs. Almost going straight into a cutting cycle. I believe this is the time when it's most important to keep them both elevated. Cut back after your PCT is complete. This can be one reason for losing some strength as well, which I'm sure you are already aware of.

 

[bioman]

Yeah two weeks is tough but I based it off Supersoldier's M1T PCT thread which showed basically no circulating Test or LH for two weeks.

Like I said, the psychological part was tough. I was in the hormonal pooper with no Test in my system AND no workouts to circulate endorphens so I was not a pleasant person to be around. Psychotic is an apt descriptor. My muscles did get flat but I did not percieve any real loss just reduced volume.

In my case I did need the 14 days to chill out, my shoulders and neck were so stiff I was quickly losing mobility. I incorporated some yoga during this time to stretch out and heal.

I'm in the 3rd week of PCT and have started training again with HIT style lifting, 2 days a week with some light cardio. With some NOZ and other NO goodies the volume is coming back quickly. Surprisingly, I haven't lost any real strength which is unusual for me. Nolva is bringing the boys back nicely.

 

[silverSurfer]

I took about 5 days off after my last cycle starting day one of PCT. Second week of PCT I started lifting again at a lower volume and not as often as during cycle - there were times when I only trained once or twice a week. I've been gradually increasing volume and frequency over time.
The hardest part for me has been nutrition and constantly adjusting my eating habits and finding foods that meet my bulking requirements while minimizing discomfort from bloating, gas, etc. My nutrition is not tied to PH cycles, I'm just bulking.
Anyway, I gained 10lbs on my last cycle and I was able to retain all of it, then I gained 2 more lbs but that is around my waist hehe.

 

[EdgarMex]

During your PCT have you kept your calories high? Some people tend to lower their cals and/or carbs. Almost going straight into a cutting cycle. I believe this is the time when it's most important to keep them both elevated. Cut back after your PCT is complete. This can be one reason for losing some strength as well, which I'm sure you are already aware of.

This is my first post since I joine the board. I've found it very useful and full of good info.

I've read many times that you should keep cals high for PCT, but how high do you guys keep them? The same as during the cycle, or a bit lower but still higher than mainteinance?

 

[Longdog]

This is my first post since I joine the board. I've found it very useful and full of good info.

I've read many times that you should keep cals high for PCT, but how high do you guys keep them? The same as during the cycle, or a bit lower but still higher than mainteinance?

I keep them as high as on-cycle for about 2 weeks, then gradually reduce. But always stay above maintenance.

 

[bioman]

Same here. I put on a little fat but can easily burn it off with more cardio and a gradual calorie reduction.

 

[EdgarMex]

Great, thanks for the info.

 

[castro]

Cuffs-Yeah,i'm still eating ALOT.I'm going to take the rest of the week off,i just feel tired and burned out.Monday i will start a new cycle(lifting)and hopefully be able to maintain.Damn i hate post cycle