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putting together my first AAS cycle

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    putting together my first AAS cycle


    Hello everyone, I'm looking to do my first cycle and I would love some advice and criticism. This is what I am thinking:

    I am very very small, so I figure I will stick with the low end of dosages.

    weeks 1-12: Test. E 400mg per week
    weeks 1-4: ~20mg Turanabol (t-bol) every day

    I've read that it is a good idea to run arimidex (1mg ED week 1-4; .5mg ED weeks 4-12) with using test+DIANABOL. Since I am using Tbol which is not androgenic, do you guys think I should cut the dosage in half or just avoid an AI altogether?

    Also, since I will not be taking tbol during weeks 4-12, would it be a good idea to throw in a few weeks of epistane towards the end of the cycle? I'm thinking not only would it boost my gains, but I could also avoid an AI during that time since epistane has AI-like properties. Of course, I would be taking organ shield throughout.

    As for PCT, I'm thinking the primordial perf TRS plus low dose Nolvadex, maybe HCG if I can find some.
    Last edited by mmk64; 10-20-2009 at 01:58 PM. Reason: dosage error

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    stats? training history? diet?

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    -24 years old
    -6" 160lbs ~15% bf
    -3 years training off and on. Low number of sets and reps, 1 hour workout MAX.
    -6 clean meals a day. Don't count calories anymore but I'm guessing I would be eating around 2500-3000 when on cycle?

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    wow....you are ****ing tiny....6' and 160 lbs.....I'm 5'10 and now up to 190. Low sets and reps won't get you anywhere........you need to change your work outs ASAP before going to a AAS cycle.....what are your staple supplements?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudog View Post
    wow....you are ****ing tiny....6' and 160 lbs.....I'm 5'10 and now up to 190. Low sets and reps won't get you anywhere........you need to change your work outs ASAP before going to a AAS cycle.....what are your staple supplements?
    a little harsh, but i sometimes feel that newbs to AAS need to hear this as well.

    OP, i would focus a lot more on ur diet. clearly ur "clean" diet is lacking in calories. also, what bodyparts do u train and on what days?

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    I appreciate the advice on my diet and workouts, but I have given this a lot of thought and I think a cycle of AAS would be beneficial for me, both physically and psychologically. My genetics are absolutely horrible (my wrist is 6" in diameter and my forearm is 10"), so I feel like it's difficult for some to understand how hard it is for my body type to be anabolic. My workouts are intense, diet is good (I've tried a higher amount of calories, but I was gaining more fat than muscle), progress is just too slow naturally.

    So if you guys could, just help out with the proposed cycle? Thanks.

    BTW, I started out at 130 lbs. Talk about tiny.

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    @ 2500 calories a day, it doesn't matter whether you're taking AAS or not, you won't see much in the way of gains. Eat bro!

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    with a low number of reps and sets you will see no gains regardless what you do/take. You need to up your diet to about 3500 calories and around 250 grams of protein a day. I wasn't trying to be a ****, but being that small and without a good workout plan taking AAS will only lead to dissapointment.

    People think that being on "juice" is the cure for everything, not realizing how much work you actually still have to do to get what you want accomplished. Recheck your diet, do 4 sets per exercise 7-12 reps. You want to wake up sore as hell....if your not feeling sore the next day you didn't do something right. I wake up every morning with muscle soreness, I constantly up my weight and change my exercises so my body is not use to doing one thing all the time.

    Again, what are you staple supplements? You need to try things like protein shakes, bcaa's, multi, fish oil, flax seed, beta alanine way before you jump to AAS....

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    i don't think you could really be 6'0 160 and 15% bodyfat after 3 years of training. People that have trouble gaining muscle almost always have fast metabolisms so they are naturally thin. If you are naturally thin, why is your bodyfat so high?

    I was 6'1 175 and 15% bodyfat when i first started lifting weights... Your stats are about normal for someone who doesn't train at all.

    If your stats are correct then something is seriously wrong, something that AAS won't fix. You probably just need to eat more. If you gain fat, then you need to do more cardio. And i don't know what your routine is but chances are it needs to change.

    I dont want to be elitist but if you want to take steroids you should look like you do take steroids. Else its just embarrassing. You can make some progress naturally no matter how bad you think your genetics are.

    Why don't you post your routine because you should have better stats just from using a decent routine and eating normally. I think if we set you up with a new routine and tweaked your diet, you'd be gaining right away.

    Diet comes first remember... play around with diet more... "I'm too lazy to count my calories but i figure i'll do this cycle anyway." No... patience, discipline... diet comes first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wudog View Post
    with a low number of reps and sets you will see no gains regardless what you do/take.
    thats not true at all.



    whew, to get to 160 i'd probably have to chop off both legs. When you say you went from 130-160, how long did that take you? and how long have you been stuck at 160?

    And I think 20mg of OT is kind of low, you likely want 40mg/day. 400mg of test is decent for first cycle and your size.

    I'm still trying to picture 6' 160lbs @ 15% bf, and having a hard time.
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    easy, it's "skinny fat" if you've heard the term before

    Also i agree about training... I do low volume and low rep sets most of the time
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    thats not true at all.



    whew, to get to 160 i'd probably have to chop off both legs. When you say you went from 130-160, how long did that take you? and how long have you been stuck at 160?

    And I think 20mg of OT is kind of low, you likely want 40mg/day. 400mg of test is decent for first cycle and your size.

    I'm still trying to picture 6' 160lbs @ 15% bf, and having a hard time.
    Well I started around 135 but with lower body fat and worked out and ate like a horse for like a year, and then I got to 170ish with a higher body fat. Probably what I could've done with ONE CYCLE OF GEAR. Then I felt like I had too much fat so I decided to cut...lost a good bit of muscle, became frustrated of the lifestyle, just completely gave up and got back to originalish. I then trained off and on and go back and forth not making any real progress for a long ass time. I really can't believe all this nonsense about me not knowing how to work hard and put on weight without AAS. I know my own body. I will up the calories with AAS just so I don't waste any of the cycle, believe me. I just don't see the payoff of working so much harder than everyone else to get so much less results, when I can get to where I was and beyond with a cycle or two. After that I can get the train rolling and get some motivation to keep busting my ass. I don't like the fact that I have to provide a timeline of my life just to prove to others that I am worthy of using AAS.

    Anyways, you really think 40mg is a good dose? I'm just afraid of starting out too high, and that seems to be towards the higher end of what I've seen people take.

    Any thoughts on the AI, and including epistane at some point? Or maybe halodrol? I have a bottle of each

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    easy, it's "skinny fat" if you've heard the term before

    Also i agree about training... I do low volume and low rep sets most of the time
    Yeah I've heard and seen that before just 160 at that height / bf is still hard for me to picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmk64 View Post
    became frustrated of the lifestyle, just completely gave up and got back to originalish. I then trained off and on and go back and forth not making any real progress for a long ass time.
    this may be a problem. you have to consider that you will need to eat a LOT more than you do today to maintain an extra 20lbs of lean mass. consider as much as 1000 calories more. so tho AAS may make it easier to get there, it doesn't make it any easier to stay there



    Quote Originally Posted by mmk64 View Post
    Anyways, you really think 40mg is a good dose? I'm just afraid of starting out too high, and that seems to be towards the higher end of what I've seen people take.

    Any thoughts on the AI, and including epistane at some point? Or maybe halodrol? I have a bottle of each
    40mg isn't an excessive dose, but you'll probably see some effect at 20, just not a lot. OT isn't a big bulker to begin with, so using it as a kickstart you shouldn't expect to see a lot of gains up front.

    at 400mg you are right at the point where you may need an ai. But just may, not definitely. I know people who run upwards of 3x that without an AI, and I know people who need an AI there. Part of the trick with it is your tolerance for bloating, and whether you will see gyno type levels of estrogen. Really best bet would be to get a full hormone panel first, see where your natural testosterone + e2 are and that would help give a better idea. My suggestion would be to have an AI available, but not use it at first. Bloating is OK. Estrogen is actually valuable as a part of gaining mass. you don't want to entirely kill estrogen, just keep it from causing problems.

    As far as epi/halo, keep it simple. This being your first jump into any of these, the less variety of things you use, the easier it will be to figure out what if anything is causing a problem. Besides halo is a close relative to OT anyhow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah I've heard and seen that before just 160 at that height / bf is still hard for me to picture.


    this may be a problem. you have to consider that you will need to eat a LOT more than you do today to maintain an extra 20lbs of lean mass. consider as much as 1000 calories more. so tho AAS may make it easier to get there, it doesn't make it any easier to stay there





    40mg isn't an excessive dose, but you'll probably see some effect at 20, just not a lot. OT isn't a big bulker to begin with, so using it as a kickstart you shouldn't expect to see a lot of gains up front.

    at 400mg you are right at the point where you may need an ai. But just may, not definitely. I know people who run upwards of 3x that without an AI, and I know people who need an AI there. Part of the trick with it is your tolerance for bloating, and whether you will see gyno type levels of estrogen. Really best bet would be to get a full hormone panel first, see where your natural testosterone + e2 are and that would help give a better idea. My suggestion would be to have an AI available, but not use it at first. Bloating is OK. Estrogen is actually valuable as a part of gaining mass. you don't want to entirely kill estrogen, just keep it from causing problems.

    As far as epi/halo, keep it simple. This being your first jump into any of these, the less variety of things you use, the easier it will be to figure out what if anything is causing a problem. Besides halo is a close relative to OT anyhow.
    Thanks for the very informative post So halodrol is similar to tbol? Out of curiosity, what are some reasons people choose to take standalone halodrol over standalone tbol? I assume hdol is harsher on the liver, but is less anabolic, and neither are androgenic. So it seems like tbol would be a better choice. Is it the availability issue?

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    and legality in the US. Tbol is a felony, halodrol is legal to possess (at least for now)
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    If i was you i would run a mild epistane cycle first just to see how a cycle works. If you can lift hard through the cycle, pct and keep your gains in the off time then put together a good injectable cycle. The key to AAS is dedication. If you dont have a solid routine/diet for gaining there is no point to running steroids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley View Post
    If i was you i would run a mild epistane cycle first just to see how a cycle works. If you can lift hard through the cycle, pct and keep your gains in the off time then put together a good injectable cycle. The key to AAS is dedication. If you dont have a solid routine/diet for gaining there is no point to running steroids.
    You know, that is probably a good idea. That way I can make sure I don't waste any of the 12 week test cycle.

    How about this: I have one bottle of hdrol, so 4 weeks of H-drol (50/50/50/50) and if I am making good progress without side effects, follow it with 3 weeks of epi (20/20/30)? Then 4 weeks of a good PCT. How do those dosages look?

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    nah, you won't get much progress with 4 weeks of halo at 50mg, its a very slow to start compound, and not huge results at best in terms of gains. I'd go with 4 weeks of epi first
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    Thanks! How does 20/30/30/40 sound for epistane? Or is that too much for someone my size?

    As far as PCT, I'm planning on 4 weeks of the primordial performance TRS plus 10 mg Nolvadex every day. Should I start with a higher dose of nolva during week 1 in order to prevent against estrogen rebound, since epi may have AI-like properties? I'm paranoid that 10mg is too little, since I hear about people taking 40+mg.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmk64 View Post
    Thanks! How does 20/30/30/40 sound for epistane? Or is that too much for someone my size?

    As far as PCT, I'm planning on 4 weeks of the primordial performance TRS plus 10 mg Nolvadex every day. Should I start with a higher dose of nolva during week 1 in order to prevent against estrogen rebound, since epi may have AI-like properties? I'm paranoid that 10mg is too little, since I hear about people taking 40+mg.
    On the epi I'd do 10 first 3 days, 20 the rest of that week and then 30 for the rest of the time. You probably won't need to hit 40, but if gains slow towards the end it would be ok to bump it up. and may as well run thru the bottle, so right around 30-32 days whatever it works out to based on your dosing.

    the TRS + 10mg of nolva is plenty. the risk of estrogen rebound really is only a gyno risk, and 10mg of nolva should be plenty to cover any estrogen surge you may have. 40mg is overkill for any purpose in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    On the epi I'd do 10 first 3 days, 20 the rest of that week and then 30 for the rest of the time. You probably won't need to hit 40, but if gains slow towards the end it would be ok to bump it up. and may as well run thru the bottle, so right around 30-32 days whatever it works out to based on your dosing.

    the TRS + 10mg of nolva is plenty. the risk of estrogen rebound really is only a gyno risk, and 10mg of nolva should be plenty to cover any estrogen surge you may have. 40mg is overkill for any purpose in my opinion.
    OK good to know . Based on what I've read, gains should really kick in at the end of week 1..so should I be shooting for linear gains from the start of week 2 all the way through 4, and adjust the dosages accordingly? Or are gains typically less during week 4?

    Also, after my 4 week PCT, would a 4 week break be long enough before possibly doing another cycle of something more powerful such as Pheraplex?

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    finish this cycle before worrying about the next and gains may or may not be linear its kind of individual. strength gains should be pretty linear
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    I'm excited to try this cycle out and post my results! I'm preparing to eat like a mofo. I'm gonna throw in some GHRP-6 to help with the appetite, hopefully I don't overeat.

    I'm currently taking some nettle root extract and testofen to increase my natural T levels. Would it be a good idea to stop taking this a week or two before my cycle? since my total T level is probably lower than normal? I wanna have as smooth of a PCT as possible

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