What happens to smaller companies now?

[KeepBuilding]

Just trying to see what you guys think will happen to smaller companies now that this big raid happend at BB.com? Do they role over and give up or do you think companies have already been trying to come up with new products knowing this ban would take place? How long do you think it will be before we see some of them trying to put some new ph/ds on the shelves again?

Obviously no one knows the exact answers to these questions, I'm just trying to get some opinions. I wasn't using any ph/ps last time there was a ban so I don't know how companies reacted after the sh*t went down...

 

[waynaferd]

I think the smaller companies will be the ones to fly under the radar, so to speak. I hope, anyway!! I'm sure compounds will be switched around a bit to get thru loopholes or around regulations, and still provide good gains like PH's do.

That's my hypothesis!!

 

[rckvl7]

I think it's too early to tell. We should know more after Tuesday though.

 

[Liftingstud]

If u look at another thread they pretty much targeted superdrol, phera/madol and tren. Yes they r probably the 3 best OTCs but there r others and sure more will come in time. But the newer ones haven't been as good as SD and phera. Only time will tell.

 

[KeepBuilding]

I think it's too early to tell. We should know more after Tuesday though.

What is going down on Tuesday?

They are targeting the better ones but if you look at BB.com they've taken everything off their web, including epi.

 

[rckvl7]

What is going down on Tuesday?

They are targeting the better ones but if you look at BB.com they've taken everything off their web, including epi.

This: http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=4081



I personally think they are going to go after everything.

 

[Liftingstud]

What is going down on Tuesday?

They are targeting the better ones but if you look at BB.com they've taken everything off their web, including epi.

No they targeted the ones that were banned... SD and phera has been an issue for a long time... That's why a few companies like AX stopped production of them... It was just never really enforced so a bunch of small companies started making clones and combos.

 

[luclyluciano]

I don't understand the purpose of these raids? If the products are not illegal, why don't they make them illegal 1st. Where are all the lawsuit happy lawyers and what are they doing about it?

 

[rckvl7]

I don't understand the purpose of these raids? If the products are not illegal, why don't they make them illegal 1st. Where are all the lawsuit happy lawyers and what are they doing about it?

The FDA is claiming that they are unapproved drugs, not that they are illegal, though I guess they are "illegal" if they are unapproved drugs.

 

[KeepBuilding]

This: http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=4081



I personally think they are going to go after everything.

Thanks for posting that. I'm with you, I think they are going to try and get rid of everything. Totally sucks, soon those a-holes will get rid of creatine!!!

 

[KeepBuilding]

I'm really hoping for companies to find more loopholes or come up with new products to give us a few more years until the gov't decides they can't handle not having total control again.

 

[hardknock]

What is going down on Tuesday?

They are targeting the better ones but if you look at BB.com they've taken everything off their web, including epi.

THIS::::::

The result of these discoveries has led Congress to act. Next Tuesday, Senator Arlen Specter, Democrat of Pennsylvania has called a hearing titled “Body Building Products and Hidden Steroids: Enforcement Barriers” before the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs.

 

[B5150]

They are ALL smaller companies capitalizing on the delusions of the young and their dysmorphic condition. Not one is anything other than a product relabel and redistributor.

Start eating right and training right.

 

[Liftingstud]

I don't understand the purpose of these raids? If the products are not illegal, why don't they make them illegal 1st. Where are all the lawsuit happy lawyers and what are they doing about it?

Look man... SD and phera have had their issues before and pretty sure they were banned. It's just no one enforced it. So they died down for a bit but made a large resurgence when no one did anything and continued to let them be sold. Example is AX started with a large group of hormones but multiple letters were sent to them and they d/c production of their hormonal products.

It was just a matter of time before this happened. Esp when kids can go into supplement stores and be sold aas... If people would have been a little more responsible maybe thus would have happen... There are multiple reports of young kids using these products with no pct and very little time off. I have witnessed it first hand in vitmain shop where a lady was trying to sell a 16 yo 1ad and 4 ad.

Looks like the government just wants us to go back to inj... Heck it's prob safer anyway.

 

[B5150]

Look man... SD and phera have had their issues before and pretty sure they were banned.

FYI - SD got banned months after it was released and DS sold it to Anabolic Xtreme. They, Anabolic Xtreme, proceeded to break the law by selling it and got letters to seize and desist from the FDA.

 

[Liftingstud]

FYI - SD got banned months after it was released and DS sold it to Anabolic Xtreme. They, Anabolic Xtreme, proceeded to break the law by selling it and got letters to seize and desist from the FDA.

Yep that's what I though but wasn't 100% cause this was like 2 yrs ago. AX stopped all their hormone production. But there really wasn't a crackdown by the FDA and smaller companies keep selling clones. After a while and nothing happened to these companies more and more clones popped up along with small companies that would combine hormones. And that leads us to the issue u have now.

 

[B5150]

Yep that's what I though but wasn't 100% cause this was like 2 yrs ago. AX stopped all their hormone production. But there really wasn't a crackdown by the FDA and smaller companies keep selling clones. After a while and nothing happened to these companies more and more clones popped up along with small companies that would combine hormones. And that leads us to the issue u have now.

Ask yourself this question: where is Designer Supplements today? Their legitimate "nutritional supplement" line got sold. How's that working out profitability wise?

 

[sethroberts]

I'm really hoping for companies to find more loopholes or come up with new products to give us a few more years until the gov't decides they can't handle not having total control again.

The more loopholes they come up with, the more heat they bring on the industry and the more likely the govt is to take everything away. The only solution is to come up with products that are not steroidal that legitimately work -- unfortnately, there are very few people in this industry capable of doing so.

 

[KeepBuilding]

They are ALL smaller companies capitalizing on the delusions of the young and their dysmorphic condition. Not one is anything other than a product relabel and redistributor.

Start eating right and training right.

It is true of these supplement companies big and small taking advantage of the youth with all these magazine ads and whatnot. Young kids really do believe that a guy got that body in the magazine from just using some fat burner.

Thing is, I'm not a young kid. I've been training and eating right for the last 10 years. I know how to cut and bulk and I know the determination and will power it takes to reach my fitness goals. I reached a point where I wanted to add something to my routine, that being a ph and I liked the results I got from it. I know the risks involved and I don't need to gov't telling me what I can and cannot put in my body. So not all people buying these "supplements" are young and delusional.

 

[Liftingstud]

The more loopholes they come up with, the more heat they bring on the industry and the more likely the govt is to take everything away. The only solution is to come up with products that are not steroidal that legitimately work -- unfortnately, there are very few people in this industry capable of doing so.

Agreed^

or u get supplement that really works and oops it has a special ingredient... ALRI.

It's just nothing nonhormonal produces aas type results. They can help with growth and recovery but not 8-20lbs in a short time period.

 

[sethroberts]

Agreed^

or u get supplement that really works and oops it has a special ingredient... ALRI.

It's just nothing nonhormonal produces aas type results. They can help with growth and recovery but not 8-20lbs in a short time period.

People need to get back to reality. A 5 pound lean mass gain in a month or two is achievable with non-hormonal products. A lot of the "gain" from some of these DS was simply water weight. Protein accretion is incremental and does result in 20 pound gains in 2 weeks.

 

[Liftingstud]

It is true of these supplement companies big and small taking advantage of the youth with all these magazine ads and whatnot. Young kids really do believe that a guy got that body in the magazine from just using some fat burner.

Thing is, I'm not a young kid. I've been training and eating right for the last 10 years. I know how to cut and bulk and I know the determination and will power it takes to reach my fitness goals. I reached a point where I wanted to add something to my routine, that being a ph and I liked the results I got from it. I know the risks involved and I don't need to gov't telling me what I can and cannot put in my body. So not all people buying these "supplements" are young and delusional.

Yes but there are lots of people unlike you who have no clue what they r doing with these compounds and this brings the trouble for the rest of us.

It's no longer the land of free and hasn't been for a while. This administration is even worse. Government is all about money... Why isn't smoking illegal even though we know it is horrible for u and the people around u?!?!?!? So u affect not only urself but also others... It's because big tobacco has paid millions and millions to politicians.

Guess it's going to make more people go to the needle.

 

[Liftingstud]

People need to get back to reality. A 5 pound lean mass gain in a month or two is achievable with non-hormonal products. A lot of the "gain" from some of these DS was simply water weight. Protein accretion is incremental and does result in 20 pound gains in 2 weeks.

very true but that means I have to train hard and actually do some work?!?!?!?

 

[KeepBuilding]

I do not agree that a five pound lean mass gain is possible in a month or two when you've been training for a long time. Lean gain is the key. If one is new to lifting then gains are very rapid but the longer you've been in the game the less gains you achieve quickly. I gain and lose weight very very easily but I also gain fat and hold water very easily so for me to gain solid muscle in a short amount of time it's not just a matter of upping my calories, it's just not that simple.

 

[sethroberts]

I do not agree that a five pound lean mass gain is possible in a month or two when you've been training for a long time. Lean gain is the key. If one is new to lifting then gains are very rapid but the longer you've been in the game the less gains you achieve quickly. I gain and lose weight very very easily but I also gain fat and hold water very easily so for me to gain solid muscle in a short amount of time it's not just a matter of upping my calories, it's just not that simple.

For those who have been lifting for a long time, gains are going to come slower -- just a fact of life. I gained 20 pounds the first month I started lifting and then it took me two more years to gain 20 more. I know we all love to see our weight increasing but real gains -- even steroid assisted take time. Look at a drug like primobolan or anavar -- most people consider them to be really weak because they don't produce immediate gains -- but the slow gains you see on these drugs are real.

 

[hardknock]

It is true of these supplement companies big and small taking advantage of the youth with all these magazine ads and whatnot. Young kids really do believe that a guy got that body in the magazine from just using some fat burner.

Thing is, I'm not a young kid. I've been training and eating right for the last 10 years. I know how to cut and bulk and I know the determination and will power it takes to reach my fitness goals. I reached a point where I wanted to add something to my routine, that being a ph and I liked the results I got from it. I know the risks involved and I don't need to gov't telling me what I can and cannot put in my body. So not all people buying these "supplements" are young and delusional.

Then you are the type of guy that would benefit from a regulating state of supplements. You seem as if you would go through all of the proper circles to take and use your "supplements" properly, even if you had to choke down going to classes and waiting in line at your clinic or doctors office to get your script...I do not like it anymore than the next person, but there has to be some type of leash put on these companies and the good ol bros.

I mean, if i can go get implants in my chest and calves, why not get doctor prescribed anabolics and have proper monitoring of said product? Only issue is that they will probably be 10x the price.

 

[hardknock]

Yes but there are lots of people unlike you who have no clue what they r doing with these compounds and this brings the trouble for the rest of us.

It's no longer the land of free and hasn't been for a while. This administration is even worse. Government is all about money... Why isn't smoking illegal even though we know it is horrible for u and the people around u?!?!?!? So u affect not only urself but also others... It's because big tobacco has paid millions and millions to politicians.

Guess it's going to make more people go to the needle.

Well, even smoking is coming under serious scrutiny now. You know it is being banned in many areas around the country(USA) now...

 

[B5150]

I know the risks involved and I don't need to gov't telling me what I can and cannot put in my body. So not all people buying these "supplements" are young and delusional.

I agree with you 100% and completely. UNFORTUNATELY the designers, developers, marketers, wholesalers and retailers of these products operate rouge business enterprises that go completely unregulated, overseen, without regard to integrity, ethics or basic decency. They, the unscrupulous, loop-hole-seeking, unethicals, have ruined tha apple cart for everyone.

Regulate, monitor, standardize, audit and control this industry and then consume what you like.

Your right to chose is being exploited by scumbags!

 

[KeepBuilding]

First to Seth......I can agree with you there, it sounded like you were saying gains at anytime can come easy. We all know that's just not the case. I guess I'm just bitter at this point because I waited until I was 28 to even try any ph/ds and now that I have tried some and had good success they will be gone soon. I guess that is the issue aggrivating me.


To hardknock...I'm not sure I'm totally understanding your post the way it was meant so forgive me if I'm off. I do like the fact that right now I know I can order something and I know it will work for me and I'll get the results I want without it being illegal. I never wanted to go the illegal route when it came to my body, that was my biggest thing. I understand that the supplement industry or any industry for that matter can't be a free for all. I know we can't have companies doing/selling whatever they want without regulation. Like I said to Seth, I guess I'm just pissed that I've waited so long and now that I like a few products they will be gone. It could be a blessing in disguise for all I know. I bust my a** in the gym and eating wise but maybe this will make me train harder or even smarter, no one is perfect after all!

 

[sethroberts]

First to Seth......I can agree with you there, it sounded like you were saying gains at anytime can come easy. We all know that's just not the case. I guess I'm just bitter at this point because I waited until I was 28 to even try any ph/ds and now that I have tried some and had good success they will be gone soon. I guess that is the issue aggrivating me.


To hardknock...I'm not sure I'm totally understanding your post the way it was meant so forgive me if I'm off. I do like the fact that right now I know I can order something and I know it will work for me and I'll get the results I want without it being illegal. I never wanted to go the illegal route when it came to my body, that was my biggest thing. I understand that the supplement industry or any industry for that matter can't be a free for all. I know we can't have companies doing/selling whatever they want without regulation. Like I said to Seth, I guess I'm just pissed that I've waited so long and now that I like a few products they will be gone. It could be a blessing in disguise for all I know. I bust my a** in the gym and eating wise but maybe this will make me train harder or even smarter, no one is perfect after all!

I know how you feel but this hopefully this will force companies to work hard instead of going after the low-hanging fruit of DS.

 

[KeepBuilding]

You two are right first about things being all about the money for the gov't and second about some companies being shady. Hell our gov't is shady as hell, I would love to know some of the things that go on behind the scenes, or maybe I wouldn't, not sure on that one.

 

[KeepBuilding]

I know how you feel but this hopefully this will force companies to work hard instead of going after the low-hanging fruit of DS.

The way things are heading the companies are certainly going to have a big challenge on their hands. So I don't think they will have a choice but to work harder if they want to stay afloat...

 

[hardknock]

To hardknock...I'm not sure I'm totally understanding your post the way it was meant so forgive me if I'm off. I do like the fact that right now I know I can order something and I know it will work for me and I'll get the results I want without it being illegal. I never wanted to go the illegal route when it came to my body, that was my biggest thing. I understand that the supplement industry or any industry for that matter can't be a free for all. I know we can't have companies doing/selling whatever they want without regulation. Like I said to Seth, I guess I'm just pissed that I've waited so long and now that I like a few products they will be gone. It could be a blessing in disguise for all I know. I bust my a** in the gym and eating wise but maybe this will make me train harder or even smarter, no one is perfect after all!

I am saying that people with your mindset, as it seems from your post, shouldn't have a problem surviving in a supplement, government, regulated world, If that ever happens. This is my thinking that it will eventually become regulated because we have to face some facts that this industry does bring in billions.

The only individuals that will have MAJOR issues are the companies that are VERY shady and the people that do not care what they put into their bodies, nor do they care to try and research anything other than checking the "good ol bro logs"