creatine on cycle? why not?

[the GUNSHOW]

so why dont people take creatine on cycle? I would think it would help? is it bad for you to take it on cycle?

 

[russy_russ]

No.

 

[AnthonyIOSOS]

so why dont people take creatine on cycle? I would think it would help? is it bad for you to take it on cycle?

Not that I know of. Creatine is something entirely different from your cycle.

 

[the GUNSHOW]

no buy on cycle I mean take it with your PH's/AAS

 

[illgixxer]

I am taking it during my cycle and plan to take it off cycle as well.

 

[lyfespan]

YOU CAN ADD CREATINE TO A BULKING CYCLE, TO ADD TO THE GAINS, JUST REALIZE, IT WILL MAKE UP RETAIN WATER AS WELL.

 

[crazyfool405]

water retention is diet dependant!!!!

i use creatine year round... only time i dont use it is vacations and off days,

and i NEVER go on vacation and i have 2-3 off days per week depending

 

[lyfespan]

IM REFER A LIL MORE TOWARD WATER RETENTION WITH MONO

 

[liftin4fun]

I use it after cycle to help keep gains coming. Obviously on cycle its not necessary. Save it to have something after cycle for the added boost.

 

[lyfespan]

People forget to think of running a cycle, like like racing a car, you dont push the nitrous at the starting line, you wait till you need it, then you add the **** that keeps ya going strong. otherwise if you go hard out of the gate your gonna fall out in PCT.

 

[russy_russ]

People forget to think of running a cycle, like like racing a car, you dont push the nitrous at the starting line, you wait till you need it, then you add the **** that keeps ya going strong. otherwise if you go hard out of the gate your gonna fall out in PCT.

That makes no sense what-so-ever. Creatine while on-cycle or during PCT will have the same effect, and because one takes while on-cycle has NOTHING to do with the effectiveness of the PCT.

 

[TravisG]

creatine puts water in your muscles. this can be refered to as glycogen stores. basically its muscle food. prohormones does the same thing. thats what makes your muscles so tight and plump on cycle. when you get off cycle some of the weight you drop is because the glyocgen stores go down in your muscle. this is why it is reccomended that ppl take creatine post cycle. because as you take glycogen out of your muscles from not having the ph in your system anymore. you can put that back in with the creatine since it does the same thing. creatine is useless oncycle because it puts water in your muscles just like prohormones do.

 

[liftin4fun]

Travis you explained it another way. I also use it mentally to know I am using a supplement that I knows that works for me.

 

[lyfespan]

That makes no sense what-so-ever. Creatine while on-cycle or during PCT will have the same effect, and because one takes while on-cycle has NOTHING to do with the effectiveness of the PCT.

it has everything to do with PCT, NO STRONG,HARD HITTING werkouts during PCT, how do you expect to keep your gains?

 

[Rosie Chee]

so why dont people take creatine on cycle? I would think it would help? is it bad for you to take it on cycle?

As people have mentioned they use (or not) creatine on cycle for a variety of reasons. However, that's not to say that using creatine on cycle is bad for you, because it is not. IMO you should be using creatine perpetually if you are resistance (or anaerobically) training, no exceptions. However, this is really up to each individual to decide.

~Rosie
Team APPNUT

 

[russy_russ]

it has everything to do with PCT, NO STRONG,HARD HITTING werkouts during PCT, how do you expect to keep your gains?

It really doesn't. Creatine Phosphate is used to transport and store a phosphate group to be used by the phosph(a)gen system (ATP-PC). The phosph(a)gen system is activated for the first few seconds of exercise (this is where creatine comes into play), then glycolysis begins to supply the needed ATP for muscular contraction. You keep your gains by bringing your hormonal levels back to their homeostatic ranges as fast as possible (testosterone, estrogen, cortisol, etc.).

 

[lennoxchi]

YOU CAN ADD CREATINE TO A BULKING CYCLE, TO ADD TO THE GAINS, JUST REALIZE, IT WILL MAKE UP RETAIN WATER AS WELL.

CREATINE GETS A BAD RAP IN REGARDS TO WATER RETENTION. I DO NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM ON CREATINE. NOT ALL DO EITHER. BUT THEN AGAIN NOT EVERY TYPES IN CAPS

 

[lyfespan]

yes , theses are the fundamentals of creatine in protien sysnthesis, as part of th urea cycle. But lets get even more simple than that, if you can't drag your ass to the gym and dont move said muscles, what happens. So if you saved the thing that are gonna give your tired body a leg up in PCT whats not to understand. The point is no, it does nothing for performance, but things like this and pre werkout drinks i save for PCT, when your reaching deep to keep gains coming. But with that said you do what werks for you and dont try what werks for others, that how this place keeps going

 

[illgixxer]

havne't drawn a clear answer from this thread? Should I save my creatine for pct? Not that its real expensive, so I could just purchase more for pct and continue using it on cycle, but I'd rather not waste it if it was useless on cycle.

 

[russy_russ]

yes , theses are the fundamentals of creatine in protien sysnthesis, as part of th urea cycle. But lets get even more simple than that, if you can't drag your ass to the gym and dont move said muscles, what happens. So if you saved the thing that are gonna give your tired body a leg up in PCT whats not to understand. The point is no, it does nothing for performance, but things like this and pre werkout drinks i save for PCT, when your reaching deep to keep gains coming. But with that said you do what werks for you and dont try what werks for others, that how this place keeps going

I'll say it one last time. All creatine supplementation does it increase creatine phosphate stores slightly to allow for a few more seconds of rapid ATP production from phosphate groups stored within a muscle fiber. If one were to take creatine supplementation during cycle AND during PCT the same effect would occur as opposed to one whom takes creatine supplementation only during PCT. Taking creatine during one's cycle does not diminish its function during PCT. If you are having trouble 'dragging your ass' to the gym, then you have a serious lack of motivation, and creatine has no correlation to that-perhaps a placebo, but no physical correlation.

BTW: creatine phosphate plays no direct role in protein synthesis.

 

[russy_russ]

havne't drawn a clear answer from this thread? Should I save my creatine for pct? Not that its real expensive, so I could just purchase more for pct and continue using it on cycle, but I'd rather not waste it if it was useless on cycle.

Use it during both.

 

[russy_russ]

double post

 

[lyfespan]

dun

 

[russy_russ]

It's science.

 

[lyfespan]

yeah, but i just dont care

 

[Big billy]

People forget to think of running a cycle, like like racing a car, you dont push the nitrous at the starting line, you wait till you need it, then you add the **** that keeps ya going strong. otherwise if you go hard out of the gate your gonna fall out in PCT.

actually you do push the nitrous at the beginning of a race to get the rpms up and the car in motion as fast as possible. Lighting it off with the engine at full rpm "like the movies" would only waste fuel and possibly damage engine components. I just added a bottle to my lotus exige and took a training course with skipp barber at lime rock CT, to learn that. I thought the other way aroung before the course.

 

[lyfespan]

dont care

 

[lyfespan]

actually you do push the nitrous at the beginning of a race to get the rpms up and the car in motion as fast as possible. Lighting it off with the engine at full rpm "like the movies" would only waste fuel and possibly damage engine components. I just added a bottle to my lotus exige and took a training course with skipp barber at lime rock CT, to learn that. I thought the other way aroung before the course.

dont care its creatine, he cant hut himself with it. IMA OFF TO DA GYM

 

[russy_russ]

dont care its creatine, he cant hut himself with it. IMA OFF TO DA GYM

Hurt myself? I'm almost finished with my master's in exercise physiology and about to start a ph.d. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing.

 

[lyfespan]

Russ, were you the one that started the thread?, then obviously my concern wuz not implied for you.


AND thats why i said i dont care, im not here to argue the pointless.

 

[lyfespan]

unsubbed , i don't care

 

[UnrealMachine]

Wow what a crappy thread, instead of arguing you just keep repeating "I don't care."

Good attitude

I don't care about this thread either, it's retarded

 

[lyfespan]

lol, its a new stadegy, for these pointless threads, the thread starter isnt even intertested or, gonna hurt himself. F ucking creatine on or off cycle will do just about the same thing, the point i wuz trying to make got overlooked by sumone that wanted to argue a stoopid point, thats all, you see the rest of my posts.

 

[lyfespan]

IM just here for the learning UNREAL, and theres not much to learn or gain here. Now following one of your logs of a few of the others, and trying to actually educate myseld, in the things that im interested in, and to helpout along the way.

 

[russy_russ]

Perhaps if you weren't so quick to discontinue the conversation you could use myself, as well as others on this forum as a resource to learn much information from if that is why you are browsing this forum.

 

[TravisG]

It really doesn't. Creatine Phosphate is used to transport and store a phosphate group to be used by the phosph(a)gen system (ATP-PC). The phosph(a)gen system is activated for the first few seconds of exercise (this is where creatine comes into play), then glycolysis begins to supply the needed ATP for muscular contraction. You keep your gains by bringing your hormonal levels back to their homeostatic ranges as fast as possible (testosterone, estrogen, cortisol, etc.).

this is just for creatine phosphate. which i only know of EAS making. but more companies could make it that i am unaware of. creatine monohydrate, kre-alklyn creatine ect dont work with the phosphate system. but it does help with ATP replenishment. but youre only talking about creatine phosphate.

 

[russy_russ]

this is just for creatine phosphate. which i only know of EAS making. but more companies could make it that i am unaware of. creatine monohydrate, kre-alklyn creatine ect dont work with the phosphate system. but it does help with ATP replenishment. but youre only talking about creatine phosphate.

The difference between creatines are the modes of delivery and the attachment of an ester for elongated half-life. In the end, they all function through the same mechanism. Trust me. Some companies do add additives to their creatines such ad neovar for additional effects.

 

[lennoxchi]

IM just here for the learning UNREAL, and theres not much to learn or gain here. Now following one of your logs of a few of the others, and trying to actually educate myseld, in the things that im interested in, and to helpout along the way.

34 years old and still acting like a teen.....but you know what...? "I don't care" ....i'm going back to the gym, me and my DRSE a$$

 

[lyfespan]

Perhaps if you weren't so quick to discontinue the conversation you could use myself, as well as others on this forum as a resource to learn much information from if that is why you are browsing this forum.

um Russ hate to burst your bubble, but you have been reading the back of way too many EAS products, and again this is a lame pointless thread, the thread starter doesn't even care anymore.

 

[lyfespan]

i understand you want to stick to your guns on the creatine thing, but its dead im not gonna go through medical journals from 1970 to prove a point. creatine on or off doenst matter

 

[TravisG]

This has turned into a very interesting thread.

 

[russy_russ]

First off I don't need to read EAS bottles for information. That comment is particularly immature. I have college degrees and years off field experience while furthering my knowledge in graduate studies. Secondly, YOU were the one that first stated creatines should only be taken during PCT and now after explaining to you that it doesn't matter you decide to change your position stand. You have a lot of growing up to do.

 

[lyfespan]

First off I don't need to read EAS bottles for information. That comment is particularly immature. I have college degrees and years off field experience while furthering my knowledge in graduate studies. Secondly, YOU were the one that first stated creatines should only be taken during PCT and now after explaining to you that it doesn't matter you decide to change your position stand. You have a lot of growing up to do.

ok here we go heres a study that states why take creatine on cycle when your body is already elevating the levels, and when your off cycle, PCT your serum levels drop, now with that knowledge i know when i want extra creatine

Training volume, androgen use and serum creatine kinase activity.

K Häkkinen, M Alén

Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, Finland.

Serum creatine kinase (CK) activities were investigated in elite male strength athletes (n = 20) during normal weight training and bodybuilding training (one training session per day), during high volume strength training (two sessions per day) and during strength training (one session per day) with the use of high dose synthetic androgens (five athletes in each subgroup). The findings demonstrated that the increase in serum CK was highest in the subgroup using androgens. These results suggest that strength training with the use of androgenic steroids leads to higher serum CK activities than normal strength training.

 

[russy_russ]

Creatine kinase is the enzyme responsible for breaking down stored creatine phosphate. You should investigate what you read more closely. Anyone that has half a brain would know that enzymatic activity is elevated while under the influence of foreign
hormones. They do control DNA transcription you know.

 

[russy_russ]

That being said one would want to take creatine while on cycle to utilize the elevated CK activity to take full advantage of it. You realize you just proven my arguement, right?

 

[lyfespan]

That being said one would want to take creatine while on cycle to utilize the elevated CK activity to take full advantage of it. You realize you just proven my arguement, right?

that wuz for andro, this is anobolic

3H]thymidine. Serum CK activities were increased in both the Steroid and Control groups 30-60 min after the exercise bout (Fig. 1). Using the same weight-lifting model, we have shown that the degree of CK leakage is associated with the severity of damage in the exercised muscles (24). Weight lifting-induced muscle damage by use of this model has been confirmed morphologically in histological sections (24, 26). We also have reported that the intensity of weight lifting (amount of work), the degree of muscle damage, the serum CK activity, and the mitotic activity (uptake of [3H]thymidine) in the exercised muscles are closely related events in this model (24, 25).
In the present study, the serum CK activities were lower in the Steroid than in the Control group 30-60 min after the exercise bout, whereas the total amount of weight lifted was higher in the Steroid group. Similarly, a diminished CK response in humans using AAS has been reported after a single bout of heavy-resistance exercise (4). Evidence suggests that AAS agents may have a membrane-stabilizing effect (22, 23) and that this may blunt the rise in serum CK efflux after muscle damage. In a similar manner, vitamin E also has the potential to stabilize muscle fiber membrane (16), and the vitamin E treatment of rats diminishes CK leakage from contraction-induced damage of the muscle (27). However, vitamin E treatment does not ameliorate the induction of muscle injury itself (27). In the present study, it is highly likely that muscle damage in the Steroid group, as reflected by the serum CK levels and [3H]thymidine uptake rates, was minimized by AAS treatment.

After muscle damage, skeletal muscle fibers can regenerate, with the satellite cells playing a primary role (1, 10). Damage of parent fibers activates normally dormant satellite cells, which then begin to proliferate. Peak proliferation is observed ~48 h after muscle damage, at which time the satellite cells begin to fuse and form multinucleated myotubes to repair the damaged portions of the parent fibers (1, 10). Skeletal muscle fibers are long, multinucleated cells, and there is a relatively constant amount of cytoplasm supplied by each myonucleus, i.e., the myonuclear domain concept (12, 14). This concept suggests that, after muscle damage, satellite cells proliferate and provide additional myonuclei, thus reestablishing a normal myonuclear domain size. In turn, the mitotic activity (uptake of [3H]thymidine) at 2 days after exercise has been associated with muscle damage. We observed a significantly lower peak uptake of [3H]thymidine 2 days after exercise in the Steroid group (Fig. 5A), suggesting that AAS reduced the level of muscle disruption in the Steroid group. This view is further supported by the following observation. A significant correlation between CK activity (the degree of muscle damage) 30-60 min after the exercise bout and the uptake of [3H]thymidine (mitotic activity) 2 days after the exercise bout was evident in both groups (Fig. 7). However, for any [3H]thymidine uptake rate, the serum CK values for the Steroid group were consistently lower than those of the Control group. Together, these data suggest that AAS diminished CK leakage and minimized muscle fiber damage after a single bout of exhaustive resistance exercise.


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Fig. 7. Relationship between serum CK activity and [3H]thymidine uptake in the plantarflexor muscles of Control and Steroid groups after a single exhaustive bout of weight lifting. Abscissa: [3H]thymidine uptake 2 days after exercise; ordinate: CK leakage 30-60 min after exercise. Regression equations and correlations are y = 0.009x + 2.36; r = 0.95 for Control, and y = 0.005x + 1.72; r = 0.79 for Steroid, respectively.

Total and muscle protein synthesis. The Control group showed a biphasic response in [14C]leucine uptake, i.e., peaks at 3 and 10 days after the exercise bout (Fig. 5B). We recently reported that this first peak most likely reflects increased protein synthesis (hypertrophy) in the primary tissues (contractile proteins, connective tissue, revascularization, activation of satellite cells, etc.), whereas the second peak may reflect the synthesis of the contractile components of regenerated and/or de novo muscle fibers (hyperplasia) (24). In the Steroid group, in contrast, there was a tendency for an earlier increased uptake, i.e., at 6 h to 3 days after the exercise bout, with a single peak at 1 day after the exercise bout (Fig. 5B). Thus the increase in protein synthesis associated with the weight-lifting exercise bout occurred more rapidly and in a shorter time period in the AAS-treated than in the Control rats. However, it is also clear that the cell cycle of proliferating cells (including satellite cells) in the muscles of the Steroid group was not affected by AAS treatment, because the peak uptake of [3H]thymidine was observed 2 days after exercise in both groups (Fig. 5A).
[14C]leucine uptake for myosin in the plantarflexor muscles of the Steroid group (Fig. 6) was significantly lower at 3-12 h and 3 days after exercise than at rest, whereas the absolute total uptake levels were similar except for the level at 3 h (Fig. 4B). Moreover, the total uptake level of [14C]leucine was significantly higher in the Steroid than in the Control group (Figs. 2B and 5B). Together, these data indicate that AAS treatment enhanced protein synthesis in the noncontractile (i.e., connective tissue and/or membrane proteins) in addition to the contractile components of the muscle.

In conclusion, the present data indicate that AAS treatment before a single bout of exhaustive weight-lifting exercise 1) enhances the total in vivo work capacity of the muscles, 2) reduces the CK leakage and the uptake of [3H]thymidine of the muscle fibers, consistent with there being less muscle fiber damage induced by weight lifting, 3) enhances the fatigue resistance of a primary plantarflexor muscle, and 4) increases the protein synthesis of both the contractile and noncontractile components of the muscles. These results demonstrate an improved adaptability of the muscle to overload and an elevated threshold at which an unusual exercise intensity can initiate a "muscle damage syndrome."

 

[russy_russ]

All anabolic steroids have an androgenic property. This is fairly common knowledge among these boards. Therefore, my previous statement holds true. The article you just posted explains biochemical adaptations to AAS (anabolic/androgenic steroids). This I already know, but have the feeling you have no idea what that article really entails.

 

[russy_russ]

Perhaps it would behoove you to learn more about exercise physiology instead of spitting out articles which you have no idea what the abstract is about.

 

[lennoxchi]

Perhaps it would behoove you to learn more about exercise physiology instead of spitting out articles which you have no idea what the abstract is about.

ouch, someone just got the raw....wned2:

 

[lyfespan]

lol, just read absracts huh, at least i read, and do understand an extensive amount of it, and to me creatine in my PCT is what werks, but what do i know. Plenty of Creatine in my anabolic body, whether the compound is more one way or the other by the way of properties, And have my own bloodwerk with the levels to know what going on my body, and i dont even keep any rats.