- 02-19-2004, 03:29 PM
- 02-19-2004, 03:35 PM
How are you doing it? Trans oral? What is the dose you are at right now? If it is oral then I would suggest going transdermal.
Also are you stacking it with anything? All questions that would probably need to be looked at before answering the question at hand.
- 02-19-2004, 03:36 PM
a week cycle? Thats not going to do much at all. If you are doing just 4-ad you need at least 4 good weeks.
02-19-2004, 03:40 PM
True I read it wrong I thought he was saying he has been on it about a week.
02-19-2004, 03:40 PM
Im using it oral. Im going for a 6 week cycle. I take 2 pills a day. Should i take more? I take 1 in the morning and 1 30 min b4 my work out. Im not stacking it with anything. I was gonna stack it with 1-AD but they were out of stock...
02-19-2004, 03:52 PM
dude.. its all about 4aderm... $19 @ 1fast..Originally Posted by TheLabRat
place 4 squirts per day split.. top of foot.
02-19-2004, 03:56 PM
How many mg's are your pills? Not all pills are the same. I think you need to do more research.Originally Posted by TheLabRat
02-19-2004, 04:02 PM
250mg AST DIOL-250Originally Posted by shadow_manifest
02-19-2004, 06:09 PM
I have used both transdermal 4ad and oral. Of course transdermal results were much better. But the oral cycle wasn't too bad. I would suggest taking at the very least 1000mg/day preferably 1200-1500mg/day. I think if u bump ur dosage up to that ballpark u will have a decent cycle. At those doses though it might be wise to keep an anti-e on hand. Good luck.
02-19-2004, 06:11 PM
oh yeah and with 4ad u need to space doses out to around every 4 hours to help keep hormone levels steady. Say u go with 1000mg/day, take one in the morning, another around lunch, another in the afternoon, and one before bed.
02-20-2004, 12:47 AM
Forget the 1-AD. Get some 1-Test and some 4AD powders and make your own transdermal. Or, purchase the build your own transdermal form PN...only $15.00 per bottle. 4AD runs $1.00 per gram. You can purchase the 1-Test from other sources for cheaper if you purchase larger quantities, but will pay another shipping charge.Originally Posted by TheLabRat
02-20-2004, 08:38 AM
4ad is OK to take as a stand alone. We'd all recommend a transdermal, but since you're already on the pills, just keep going.
You sound like you're new to androgens. I suggest staying at 500mg/day through the 2nd week. See if gains keep coming, & decide whether to bump it to 750mg. 6 weeks is a good cycle length. You will gain well on small dosages for your 1st cycle, don't exceed 1000mg at any point this cycle. Non-methylated phs take about 2 weeks for the gains to really be noticable. Stay with it, they will come. No need to bump your dosage right away. Keep your calories high.
You will need something for PCT as well, search & learn up.
02-20-2004, 10:58 AM
xxxxxxxxxxOriginally Posted by TheLabRat
I would recommend taking lipsomal 4AD. I've had much better results taking it that way; compared to taking it in pill form.
As for 500mg a day, it's a start. I don't believe it's a high enough dosage to make necessary the taking of anything post cycle. I also concur with what others have said regarding the length of the cycle. It will take at least 10 days to start getting results. I would recommend staying on cycle for at least 4 if not 6 weeks. Boosting dosages to 750mg will probably also help. Anything over 1000mg is probably unnecessary, especially if you are new to PHs.
02-20-2004, 03:21 PM
Hey guys thanks for the info. Yeah i am kinda new to phs. But im searching and learning new things everyday.
02-21-2004, 02:31 PM
AST's 4AD is notoriously weak. You definately need to have at bare minimum 1000 mgs, more like 2000.
02-21-2004, 03:25 PM
westniles, are you saying it's underdosed?
(by underdosed I mean they don't meet label claims of 250mg per cap.)
02-21-2004, 06:37 PM
By notoriously weak I assume you mean it gets eaten up by the liver, with only a minimal amount passing through. Maybe I've missed some earlier threads on the subject, but I'm curious on where you heard this, or from how many people thought they got very little effect from their dosages of AST 4AD...
02-21-2004, 07:14 PM
I'm using AST's R-ALA right now, and I feel like it's underdosed. I've only used Mike's R-ALA before, and if I took 2 caps (100mg each) I feel almost like I'm starving or hypo-glycemic. When I take one of these (200mg caps) I don't feel ****.
02-21-2004, 08:52 PM
When I ran a 6 week cycle of oral 4ad I started it off with some of AST 4ad then once one bottle was gone I switched to ergopharms 4ad. I'd say it seems that AST 4ad is underdosed. Just my opinion though.
02-21-2004, 08:54 PM
Regardless if you think it's underdosed, it's ridiculous to recommend someone taking 2grams/day of oral 4ad on their 1st cycle. AST does not have a good reputation in the PH world, but its still an effective compound. I used it a few years back with no problems.Originally Posted by westniles
LabRat- don't take advice from someone who is too young to be suing these substances anyway. 1000mg is probably the max for a 1st cycle. I'm sure the gains will be good enough that you won't need to consider bumping beyond that.
02-21-2004, 09:33 PM
I am just speaking from my use with the product, although I have heard it is one of the worst 4-AD products also. I was taking a gram of it stacked with M1T to help with the lethargy and libido. It wasn't doing the trick. When I read some threads on oral 4-AD supplementation, it seemed like most got good results with 1800-2000. As soon as I dropped the AST and switched to 5-6 squirts of 4derm 2 X a day, I really felt it help.
02-21-2004, 09:38 PM
Of course recommending someone new to 4-AD to take 2000mg's right off would be quite a haphazard recommendation. I just think that he should not be surprised if he has to work up his dose that high.
02-21-2004, 10:59 PM
I agree, the product sucks as does all oral 4ad. The guy already has it, so he may as well use it. I took it about 2 years ago with 1ad before I knew there were better PH options. I started with 500mg & worked up to 1000. The stuff worked for me, I was pretty experienced with androgens. I think anyone who is new to androgens will get solid gains from 1000mg or less. I think its a much better starting point than jumping into m1t.Originally Posted by westniles
02-22-2004, 09:36 AM
02-22-2004, 10:20 AM
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