I am just speaking from my use with the product, although I have heard it is one of the worst 4-AD products also. I was taking a gram of it stacked with M1T to help with the lethargy and libido. It wasn't doing the trick. When I read some threads on oral 4-AD supplementation, it seemed like most got good results with 1800-2000. As soon as I dropped the AST and switched to 5-6 squirts of 4derm 2 X a day, I really felt it help.