Serious blood flow problem to ankles/feet...
- 07-13-2009, 01:32 AM
Serious blood flow problem to ankles/feet...
I just got back from our platoon PT. We ran for 57 minutes...Actually we sprinted for 57 minutes. Half way through, my ankles started getting real stiff. They continued to get more and more stiff. In a few moments, my feet began to go numb, and my front lower shin/ankle area was pumped to hell. My ankles were both pumped to hell.
When all was said and done, my feet were COMPLETELY numb. I ran for about 20 minutes with COMPLETELY numb feet. During the run, my Sgt asked whats wrong, I turned around and ate ****. My feet seriously wouldnt work. I was running like a lizard runs on water, with legs swaying outwart. My calves and quads is what kept my legs in motion, but had no control of feet. I couldnt even stand at position of attention...
What the **** is wrong with me?! Im on my 3rd week of H-drol, and third week of powerlifting. Should I drop the powerlifting and go back to Ross Training/Cross Fit boxing conditioning, or drop the H-drol, because I seriously cant run this way...
- 07-13-2009, 02:35 AM
Did your shins or calfs etc feel like they were pumped full of blood? Pulsating almost?
Did they come back to normal after 20 - 30 minutes or so?
Sounds like you may be experiencing some symptoms of compartment syndrome.. if the above sounds likely, google compartment syndrome and read up - its a bitch.
- 07-13-2009, 04:51 AM
Well after 20-30 minutes, they felt a lot better (from not running). Feeling came back pretty quick. Its definently the front area of my lower shins, on the ankle/joint area. My right is hurting like hell though. Feels like the lower shin area, and somewhat hurts when I flex my foot up.
During the run, my ankles/shins felt like they were locked, so pumped up. My calfs were pretty pumped, but not nearly as much. I didnt feel any pulsing, just my whole ankle in pain...I'll read up once I get off work.
EDIT: Wow just read up on, sounds extremely serious. It says it can come from extensive use of muscle. My training regime is Squats, Squat Clean and Jerks, and Bench, 5x5...It could be from that (squats and Squat Cleans = a lot of pressure right there on your ankle/joint area). Think it could be the combination of the two? H-Drol and Powerlifting? Im not sure what to do. Will probably tell Doc about it and see what he says. I really dont want to give up powerlifting, but I have to be able to run.
07-13-2009, 10:05 AM
Military Doc? Isnt it not allowed to take any anabolics in the military? Or do you mean tell him about the side effect and power lifting and see if he thinks its too much leg work being done when combined with running?
07-13-2009, 12:06 PM
do NOT tell a military doc you're on steroids. thats UCMJ. so now you have to deal with this by yourself.
agree w/ compartment syndrome. something swelled your muscles so much that the blood flow was compromised. the nerves were getting dinged, too. you're lucky it came back to normal. i'd dump the steroids. maybe see if taurine helps if you're willing to chance it.
07-13-2009, 12:25 PM
you have two options realistically.
1, you're having calf pumps, which means you need around 3g of taurine, 500mg magnesium, and water - lots of it.
2, drop the cycle if that doesn't work (which means its not calf pumps), and face plants just aren't your thing.
07-13-2009, 01:23 PM
But im going to medical 2morrow anyways. I wont tell those Docs though = P
Our Corpsman thinks at worst it's stress fractures. So im getting x-rays done. Depending on the situation, i may drop the H-Drol.
07-13-2009, 01:32 PM
I worked alot with College athletic trainers and my first thought was Anterior compartment Syndrom as well. Take it seriously, it can mess you up bad. stop taking the H-drol, add a bit of taurine and some NSAIDs if you continue to experience swelling. DO NOT use compressions of any kind here. Numbing and tingling means your pinching off the nerve. "Dropfoot" would also probably confirm ACS. Do these to try to decrease swelling, if left alone tissue (including muscle, nerve, and vascular) necrosis is a possibility.
EDIT: After re-reading your first post, you had drop foot on your run. Its probably ACS.
07-13-2009, 01:32 PM
at worse its compartment syndrome and you'll **** your nerves for good
stress fractures wouldnt give that "pump", just pain. and xrays arent good at spotting them anyway
07-13-2009, 01:48 PM
Anterior and lateral compartment of leg commonest but also happens in posterior compartment and arm.
Commonest cause is trauma, especially fracture. But can occur from arterial disease, long immobility ( we see it in patients with their legs up in operating stirrups for a long time), other causes of muscle swelling, such as some drugs and overuse
I suspect that u have considerable muscle oedema from the traing, and the h drol is probably not helping.
If I was your doc I would certainly advise against any serious lower leg activity for a while, check blood electrolytes and albumin, and given ur profession get a Doppler ultrasound to check the leg arteries (anterior tibial and peroneal) are fine.
You really don't want this again. I am sure you have found on the net the treatment if it doesn't rapidly go away. Fasciotomy is a hideous op to do, and sadly most cases we see have not been recognised early enough and so we havevto do it.
Hope this of some use. Best of luck.
07-13-2009, 01:50 PM
If I drop the H-Drol, should I start taking my PCT? Or will the PCT keep me ****ed up too?
07-13-2009, 01:51 PM
Sorry forgot. Make sure u tell ur doc about the pain on ankle extension. It is a significant symptom ccompartment swelling.
07-13-2009, 01:56 PM
I would probably go into PCT, it shouldn't effect. What's your PCT look like?
07-13-2009, 01:57 PM
Holy ****. Some serious ****. Lol, good luck to me getting a Doppler Ultrasound...
Do you think this was due to the H-Drol, or my lifting regime? In the past, I did 5x5 powerlifting for a long time, never experienced this. Think it's a mixture of my job and H-Drol/lifting?
07-13-2009, 01:58 PM
07-13-2009, 02:07 PM
That PCT is fine for H-drol.
Varies from person to person. The best I could say is to waite until all symptoms are completely gone, then waite like 2-3 weeks. After this period of time, try some very light lower leg excercises. If any sypmtoms reappear, immediatly stop and waite longer. If none are present, you can probably slowly begin to readjust your workouts. W/e you do, do not just waite a bit then go full steam back into the workouts. Slow and steady is the key here.EDIT: BTW, how long is "a while" of limited to zero lower leg exercise?
07-13-2009, 02:21 PM
Good to go. Guys and any gals, I greatly appreciate all your help. 2morrow I pray it's not ACS. But definently dropping H-Drol and moving into my PCT. Was a fun run = P
Besides, I was more looking forward to my PCT. Guess I'll have to start a workout regime I hate and despise...Upper Body, mostly isolation exercises. Borring = )
07-13-2009, 02:26 PM
you can do isolation excercises on quads and hamstrings if you want. Just keep away from calves and anything anterio-lateral to the tibial edge (your shin bone).
07-13-2009, 02:27 PM
I'll miss you squats *tear*
Lost, but never forgotten...
07-13-2009, 02:30 PM
If your not already, start taking 10-15grams of fish oil a day, it improves circulation/thins the blood. That helps my legs when I do long bike rides.
07-13-2009, 03:08 PM
You will probably get great gains during PCT, you probably have little to no shutdown lol.
Sorry to hear about it being so rough, hoping its just some kinda simple issue and not this ACS(which sounds damn scary).
You seem to have a pretty cool coreman, consider yourself lucky. Then again its not unheard of, I just hope he knows his shizit when it comes to steroids.
07-13-2009, 03:15 PM
But certainly no harm in excluding it. Btw x-ray does not always show it in the early stages.
07-13-2009, 03:26 PM
Absolutely agree. Hopefully this a one off combination of several factors producing significant muscle swelling. I guess the h drol could be contributing by rapidly increasing muscle volume/ bloodflow before the fascia has adapted.
A 57 sprint would be considered serious stress on the leg muscles. I know you guys are superfit but that would give most of us total body compartment syndrome!!
Joking aside, unaccustomed or a dramatic increase in exercise intensity can cause this. We see it in middle aged men suddenly taking up squash again.
Of course you are young and fit so v unlikely to have arterial disease. Probably on physical exam if all your foot pulses are there, capillary refill and sensation fine then imaging the vessels largely forvreassueance only.
Wish u the best
07-13-2009, 05:53 PM
Compartment Syndrome is actually much more common than you might think - a lot of pro athletes have required compartment surgery to release the fascia.
Sounds to me like you may well have developed Shin Splints as well - the 2 go hand in hand due to the bodies natural compensation when pressure develops within the mucle.
But I agree - the H-Drol wouldnt have helped at all.
07-13-2009, 06:40 PM
would foam rolling help this? or is this waay beyond that, I havent read up on CS yet, just going on your posts.
07-13-2009, 07:33 PM
Not sure what foam rolling is. However, if it is what I think your talking about, generally speaking with ACS you want to limit or completely eliminate any outside pressure to the area, so this may only antagonize it. Elevation + NSAIDs + ice (no wrapping here, set it on top of the leg) will help swelling.
07-13-2009, 07:41 PM
You can't get away from the running in the military....it sucks! I would get mild shine splints when we ran the hills in Germany. As far as PCT, you shouldn't be shut down at all. Sucks about having to stop the cycle though. Weeks 4-6 are when it starts getting good on H-Drol.
07-14-2009, 07:39 AM
I've experienced something very similar about 2 years ago. I would get tightness/pump in from the mid calf to the ankle. This would make running painful and leave my shins sore. I'd also get mild cramping underneath my foot. Sometimes I'd try to 'run through it' and blood flow after a couple miles would deflate the pump, if my shins muscles weren't already too sore.
I had been using creatine and NO supps (either NoXplode or SuperPump ). After I finished with those, the pain went away. More recently I've noticed I'll start to get that feeling if I'm taking anything that will cause pumps, esp. if I run after a workout.
Maybe the pumps and higher blood pressure were causing aggravation?
07-14-2009, 08:59 AM
On my havoc/x-tren cycle I experienced the exact same thing, went for a long run, and my shins and calfs turned into bricks. Like 15 minutes after my shin/calf pumps, my feet went completely numb, could feel the numb feet hit the ground it was really strange. Didn't think anything of it and finished up the cycle. Like 2 days after starting pct did not experience the same problem, so must have just been harsh pumps.
07-14-2009, 09:16 AM
Well I went to medical today, and exactly what I thought would happen, happened. The doctor talked to me like im a ****ing piece of **** recruit in bootcamp trying to get out of PT...
So yeah, he didnt help me at all. All he did was feel my ankle and had me move my foot up/down/left/right...Didnt even tell me what could be wrong, just said, lay off the squats and anything that put pressure on my ankles. But he did say I could still Clean and Jerk.
He gave me a two day light duty chit, and said, "keep this in back pocket just in case".
I'll see how well I run 2morrow. Im pissed at how ****ty the militaries healthcare is. I should just keep on H-Drol and powerlifting until I need that ****ing surgery to spite them. Im a big fan of spite.
07-14-2009, 10:21 AM
07-14-2009, 10:57 AM
From my short experience with military medical professionals, they are damn near useless I mean if there is a visible wound they will treat it(such as broken bone) but even then they do it k-mart style as cheap as possible. To them everything is an excuse to get out of work. But it is not worth messing yourself up just to get back at them. Because once you screw up nerves, its permanent.
07-14-2009, 12:13 PM
well if you want to have a fasciotomy to "spite" the docs, go right ahead
07-14-2009, 12:22 PM
I was of course joking. But im going to keep running, and probably keep falling out until it subsides. If it doesnt get better within a week or two, I will go back to medical, tell them the same ****. They will tell me the same ****. And probably just go on light duty for a day or two, hopefully it gets better, if not, it will be rinse and repeat, cuz in the Corps, I cant very well refuse to PT...
07-14-2009, 12:34 PM
Military Doctor- "Take these 800mg Motrin and see how you feel". They think those big Motrin can cure anything.
07-14-2009, 12:59 PM
did you do similar PT prior to hdrol with no similar symptoms?
07-14-2009, 02:07 PM
07-14-2009, 03:15 PM
Of course now they will be normal. Yes fortunately it was "mild" and temporary, but acs would still b top of my list.
If u get similar again please stop immediately. If said doc could see it then that would probably make him sit up and take note
07-14-2009, 03:20 PM
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