M1T PCT...Lost All of My Gains
- 02-03-2004, 10:42 AM
M1T PCT...Lost All of My Gains
I recently did a 2 week cycle of M1T and gained 7lbs using 10mg/day. I already had some nolva (pill form) on hand for PCT, although I have had it for about 1 year. I have been taking the nolva for 10 days now, 4 days at 40mg and 6 days at 10mg. So far I have already lost 5lbs, which is almost all of my gains from my cycle. Training and diet have been on track, so is it possible that this is due to my year old nolva? Could it have lost its effectiveness for PCT?
- 02-03-2004, 11:18 AM
it's day 2 of pct for me and i've lost 3 lbs already. it may be that m1t just bloats you up with alot of water and it gets dumped when you finish your cycle.
- 02-03-2004, 11:18 AM
Highly doubt that your nolva caused this. What are your stats? If you 40, 6'2" and 275 lbs of muscle then any gains from anything unnatural are hard to keep.
Way to many factors to determine this answer.
02-03-2004, 11:19 AM
Wrong!!!Originally Posted by ke0ki
02-03-2004, 11:31 AM
It may a combination of factors, but one I see is not enough Nolva. Your dosage is too low. It's imperative to use high doses at the start of PCT.
You should be taking 40mg for 7-10 days, then drop to 20mg until the end of week 2 (if you plan to go 2on-2off-2on). At the end of the cycle you should be running 40mg for 7-10 days, 20mg for 2 weeks, 10mg for 2 weeks. 4 weeks of Nolva total.
I've never held any noticable water on M1t, & I lose maybe 1-2 lbs post cycle with proper pct.
02-03-2004, 11:59 AM
will you elaborate on what you do for pct? thanks.
02-03-2004, 12:10 PM
I kept all my gains and actually added a few more lbs
02-03-2004, 12:33 PM
yeah, please elaborate on the pct.
02-03-2004, 02:02 PM
I am currently doing Nolva PCT after a M1T cycle..I did 40mg first week..Now I am doing 30mg..I will preceed to drop 10mg every week until the four weeks are over..I am also taking some Kreataine Ultra from blackstar labs..I have kept a good portion of all my gains. I am down 1 rep on bench, thats all.. I am actually up in other lifts! I have not weighed myself as I am eating a lot cleaner now and more active with rugby and cardio so I expect to lose a few lbs. Last thing to add, No side effects what so ever to report..!
Sabitu, Why did you drop from 40mg to 10mg after only a few days!?
02-03-2004, 02:08 PM
If PCT is your problems then you girls shouldnt have jumped right into it to start. PCT info is everywhere. Stop reading the Bull**** "New methyls" threads and read up on learning about Post cycle ancillaries. The search button on top works wonders.
Or you can just take my word on it that snorting a mayonaise and hot sauce mixture of 70% mayo (preferably helmans) and 30% hot sauce (Tabassco) for 3 weeks while applying a mustard (57%) and vinegar(23%) transdermal with lemon juice (20%)(for better absorbtion) for another 2 weeks afterwards will ALMOST guarentee a high success rate in maintaining your gains.
PS. Keep some wheat bread on hand cause your have all the condoments taken care of.
02-03-2004, 02:20 PM
That's such crap DB!
Everyone knows its 35% tobasco not 30%. The literature clearly points to this.
02-03-2004, 02:55 PM
um, thanks db. i know what pct is. i was asking longdog what he does to have such high retention. only losing 1-2lb PC is def above the norm. and legaljuicer, if you are gaining PC i would greatly appreciate hearing the specifics of what you do as well.Originally Posted by db682
02-03-2004, 04:26 PM
Whoops! I made a mistake in my post above. I actually went down from 40mg of nolva a day to 20mg a day, not 10mg. I thought this would be a sufficient dosage in order to keep my gains post cycle, but I guess not.
02-03-2004, 04:41 PM
PCT will depend on the cycle. If it's a 4 week m1t/4ad cycle or something similar, then you will need 4 weeks of Nolva or Clomid use. I use Nolva 4 weeks at 40mg/20mg/20mg/10mg. If you have a hard time recovering with Nolva alone, try Nolva & clomid together. That worked for me but I break out from Clomid.Originally Posted by wimpy
Another key is keeping your calories very high during PCT. You need to cut your training volume back for a few weeks as your body can't handle the same training as on-cycle while your natural test is in the cellar. It's real easy to overtrain post-cycle, & that can take some gains away.
Add a lot of flax to your diet & use creatine. I don't use any creatine on-cycle, then I start using v12 my first day of PCT. I usually gain 2-3 pounds just from that & my overall weight levels off right about where I was at the end of the cycle.
02-03-2004, 05:00 PM
I think weight gain PC is fairly common and I think its due in part to the E:T ratio suddenly changing in favor of Estrogen..poof more water weight. This usually goes away in a week or so.
Definitely agree with LONG, lower your volume of workouts for the first couple of weeks and eat like crazy. Lifting with no natural Test in your system basically amounts to muscle tear down with no rebuild. I usually take a break from lifting for a good 7-10 days, eat, recover then hit the wieghts again.
02-03-2004, 06:25 PM
Do you do this with cycles as short as two weeks?Originally Posted by bioman
02-03-2004, 08:17 PM
Thats a big part of it right there. While M1T will not add bloat via aromitization, it WILL add water weight due to supercompensation of muscles due to the androgens. When you come off cycle, and the androgens clear your system...you will lose the supercompensation and thus some water weight. By supplementing with creatine, or next-gen products, you can keep this up to some regard. Also, those using creatine throughout (before, during and after) they will receive less muscle supercompensation...and thus have less "unrealistic" gains.Originally Posted by Longdog
02-03-2004, 08:47 PM
Another possibility I havn't heard anyone mention...I dunno who said it (may have been Size) but some people don't like the idea of short cycles b/c your body doesn't have a chance to get accustomed to the new weight. Not say this is true or not in your situation, but it makes sense. I know when I do use M1T it will be for longer than 2 weeks.
02-03-2004, 08:57 PM
And yet another thing to consider is the fact that people stop eating their bulking amounts right when they start pct.... you really really really need to keep your calories high (as in, intentionally put on some fat high) in order to guarantee you keep every bit of muscle that you can. Nothing a little cutter can't fix, right?
-Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
-Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
*I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
02-04-2004, 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by badbart
Keep in mind that M1T shuts down your natural test production almost immediately so yes I really lay off lifting for a week or so during PCT. This method seems to work for me, others will keep on lifting and keep thier gains just fine. I seem to be prone to overtraining so I take a conservative approach to PCT.
02-04-2004, 02:13 AM
will adding some trib or a natural test booster help get the test back along with the nolva or do u guys just stick with nolva..?? My first PCT, I used vitex, trib and 6-oxo, this worked ok, but now M-1-T I'm on the nolva....
02-04-2004, 08:34 AM
I tried tribulus a while back & didnt notice any difference. I read somewhere that tribulus may actually increase suppression during PCT, so I stay away from it. Nolva is all you need. You could combine Nolva & Clomid for a real quick recovery.Originally Posted by mike69
02-04-2004, 09:15 AM
It may help but I wouldnt go as far as saying REAL QUICK recovery.Originally Posted by Longdog
02-04-2004, 09:34 AM
I agree 100% I notice shut down on any substance after a week. Then I wonder what is the point of short cycles. Why not do longer cycles with bigger gains? M1T is toxic so I can see why we want to keep them short, but with other substances why not longer? Then again I have only done one long cycle and it was 1-AD and 19-nor which of course keep me shut down for about 3 weeks but that was 3 years ago when I only used ZMA before I knew about liquid products. But I like the idea of quick recovery. Its not worth it to me to be shut down for weeks after a long cycle.Originally Posted by bioman
So what is your guess on the time it takes to get shut down enough to make recovery longer? Why not 3-4 week cycles?
02-04-2004, 10:00 AM
I also like the idea of a faster recovery through shorter cycles. I guess it depends on if shutdown if relative to time on or absolute. If I'm screwed for several weeks post cycle regardless of cycle length, then obviously it would be better to make your cycle longer and more productive to offset the stagnation post cycle.Originally Posted by badbart
02-04-2004, 04:21 PM
Yeah, that sounded overstated.Originally Posted by db682
Its debatable whether test levels will recover faster by using nolva & clomid. I know for sure that my libido recovers in half the time using both.
02-27-2004, 12:50 PM
Anybody ahve any suggestions on where the best place to come across Clomid and Nolva???
02-27-2004, 01:05 PM
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