Mixing Prohormones and Anabolics

[rasman102]

A Couple weeks ago I started running Tren 19-Nor (which is 19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione) I've been running 120mg per day which has worked quite nicely, with no noticable sides. In conjunction with this I am taking Himalaya Livercare, but no milk thistle, because I am on a mild benzo dose (bad combo). Also I take 6-oxo and my own version of ZMA (actually zinc orotate and magnesium taurate...my favorite zinc salt and mag ester) at bedtime.

I am planning to run this cycle for 8 weeks followed by some 95% divanil and Reversitol for 4 weeks. If I were to run an anabolic such dianabol (~30 mg/day) as a mid-cycle add-on (weeks 2-6 of the 19-Nor cycle), do I need to worry about a true SERM when all is said and done?:dunno:

 

[Random181]

oh good god another one...

 

[MrBigPR]

Are you serious?

:toofunny:

 

[lennoxchi]

well considering dbol aromitizes.......i think a SERM would be a good idea

 

[Random181]

youll be fine, add inleast 6 weeks of D-bol may inject some tren I.V to really get things going...

 

[Delta Force]

hmm, let me see if I got the right... you're running a cycle for 8 weeks and currently doing tren at 120mg, you want to add dbol and you're worry about a true SERM? You've got to be joking, right? If I was you I would be worried to!! You should always have a SERM on hand in case things go wrong when running any compound.

From seeing your stats how old are you? why do you need to take so much juice? is this your first cycle? inquiring minds want to know!

 

[bigpapa]

youll be fine, add inleast 6 weeks of D-bol may inject some tren I.V to really get things going...

o there is nothing better than an big IV of tren....crush up some omnadren with it and snort it also....GFH.



:lmao:

 

[rasman102]

haha...

i knew my question wud warrant such responses. I have a true SERM on hand, however, I am planning on tapering off the dbol, upping the 6-oxo and adding in some free-t boosters until I complete the last two weeks of the Dienolone precursor. After that i'd like to run a 4 week OTC SERM cycle. I'd personally like to see if the free-t boosters, increased AI and Tren 19-Nor keep the post-cycle drop-off of Dbol @ bay.

does anyone know for sure this will be a crash and burn? :wave2:

 

[Random181]

Honestly mate 8 weeks on 'tren' probably warrants a serm in its own right....

 

[bigpapa]

Honestly mate 8 weeks on 'tren' probably warrants a serm in its own right....

x2...clomid definately.

i just dont like this plan period. not very well thought out and its a kind of lets throw some more stuff in while i'm already on.

 

[Delta Force]

I dont like the OTC SERM you plan to use, x2 for clomid

 

[UnrealMachine]

Use a SERM, don't **** around.

edit: i like clomid! x3 for that... can replace a serm IMO, but not a bad idea to stack them

And what's up with your bodyweight. Bulk son. Eat.

 

[rasman102]

i have a sick metabolism...i eat like a horse, but only now with the 19-Nor have I been translating that into lean, dry mass...b4 i would gain the weight, but it would go to my gut for a few daes and say so-long in a violent fashion (poor toilet did not even see it coming) On another note, I do have the clomid on hand, but i think i might gamble a day or two for the sake of research. haha, much appreciation guys...ill let u know how things progress...gained 8 lbs solid in the first week...skys the limit. =)

 

[IamSOFAking]

why the neg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!im just messing with these idiots at AM i dont even like this forum everbody is so dum

quote from his rep. this guy is a tool.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Haha. That's funny. Anyway I see a lot of people that say they have a fast metabolism and eat like a horse, and when prompted to post their diets they won't respond, and if they do it's never enough food. Can't gain weight? Eat more. As long as you're not gaining fat, eat more. That's all there is to it.

 

[Jeremy Brown]

HAHAHAH TOOL.

 

[Delta Force]

rasman102

:tool:

 

[rasman102]

wow...thanks for practically sucking eachother off in my presence instead of actually being open-minded nd useful human beings...pfft juice heads...once again ill post my progress neway just so u guys can suck eachother off in my honor again

 

[Screwtape]

5'9" 147 lbs
Drink milk.
Full-fat milk.
Once you have drunk all you can,
Drink some more.
Aim for a gallon a day.

I'm about the same height as you and got up to 290lbs by drinking two gallons a day.

Also, Squat Bench and Deadlift.

 

[Zero V]

"why the neg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!im just messing with these idiots at AM i dont even like this forum everbody is so dum"

Sounds like he is 14?!

 

[lector606]

i have a sick metabolism...i eat like a horse, but only now with the 19-Nor have I been translating that into lean, dry mass...b4 i would gain the weight, but it would go to my gut for a few daes and say so-long in a violent fashion (poor toilet did not even see it coming) On another note, I do have the clomid on hand, but i think i might gamble a day or two for the sake of research. haha, much appreciation guys...ill let u know how things progress...gained 8 lbs solid in the first week...skys the limit. =)

dude i am not hating but here is the truth straight up:

"i eat like a horse" - no, you don't. you eat like a 147 pounder with a fast metabolism. 95% of guys seem to claim to "eat like a horse", but unless i see it with my own eyes i never believe it. post your diet

"with the tren im gaining so well" no ****, it's a steroid buddy. you are going to lose all your gains within 1 month of coming off if you don't learn how to eat correctly. every pound you gain is more calories you need to consume just to MAINTAIN that weight. think about it. if you couldn't gani weight without steroids you have ZERO chance of keeping what you gain.

taking more steroids now = more harm to your health done, for absolutely no reason, because you are probably going to lose 90+% of your gains anyway.

 

[lector606]

Also, prohormones = anabolics. And my advice is to use the SERM you claim to have, stop taking the tren and learn how to gain naturally, THEN take something

 

[rasman102]

"why the neg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!im just messing with these idiots at AM i dont even like this forum everbody is so dum"

Sounds like he is 14?!

yea, that was one of these genius' jokes, not something i actually said...im 21

secondly, i appreciate the tips, but ive heard it for years and get roughly 6000-7000 calories in a day...i kno i can eat more and i should up the bar, but with work, expenses, and the shitty paycheck i get, its just not feasible

as for my health, i get more bloodwork and other tests done regularly since i was about...well...14 haha. With all the dietary supplements i take, less the anabolics, people usually accuse me of being too health-conscious.

finally, lector and screwtape...i appreciate u acting like adults, although ive heard what u suggested from others before, they are valid, useful suggestions nonetheless

thanx.

ps: does it piss ne one else off that they like to call everything tren nowadays, no matter what the target hormone is? i mean i remember the phase where everyone was bat-**** crazy over the real **** (of course then i was 14), but that day has long-since gone

 

[Zero V]

yea, that was one of these genius' jokes, not something i actually said...im 21

secondly, i appreciate the tips, but ive heard it for years and get roughly 6000-7000 calories in a day...i kno i can eat more and i should up the bar, but with work, expenses, and the shitty paycheck i get, its just not feasible

as for my health, i get more bloodwork and other tests done regularly since i was about...well...14 haha. With all the dietary supplements i take, less the anabolics, people usually accuse me of being too health-conscious.

finally, lector and screwtape...i appreciate u acting like adults, although ive heard what u suggested from others before, they are valid, useful suggestions nonetheless

thanx.

ps: does it piss ne one else off that they like to call everything tren nowadays, no matter what the target hormone is? i mean i remember the phase where everyone was bat-**** crazy over the real **** (of course then i was 14), but that day has long-since gone

well at least your 21. But if you are eating 7000 calories a day, and weigh 147 you have an issue...I would go see a doctor because you have to have some hella bad parasites living in your intestines.

I am 160 atm, definitely a faster metabolism cuz if I do alot of cardio gains are impossible(getting cut is easy, but bulking like I am doing is hard). But I am currently up 11 pounds in 1 month of bulking naturally from 150 to 161-162.

You either dont know how to train at all,have a serious medical issue, or accidentally are adding an extra 0 to the number of calories you are eating.

I am basically getting 2500-3000 and can put on weight. As long as I cut running and allow some midsection build up temporarily.

 

[lector606]

well at least your 21. But if you are eating 7000 calories a day, and weigh 147 you have an issue...I would go see a doctor because you have to have some hella bad parasites living in your intestines.

I am 160 atm, definitely a faster metabolism cuz if I do alot of cardio gains are impossible(getting cut is easy, but bulking like I am doing is hard). But I am currently up 11 pounds in 1 month of bulking naturally from 150 to 161-162.

You either dont know how to train at all,have a serious medical issue, or accidentally are adding an extra 0 to the number of calories you are eating.

I am basically getting 2500-3000 and can put on weight. As long as I cut running and allow some midsection build up temporarily.

I agree 100%. Eating 7000 calories in a day is HARD to do if you eat normal foods dude. Write down everything you eat in a day and post it here!

Think about it this way: let's say your maintenance cals @ 147 is actually 6-7k per day. If you eat more than that you'll gain weight, less you'll lose it, right? Say tren/dbol/whatever helps you get to 160. Add another x cals (500 or so) to your maintenance, at least. If you don't eat MORE than you're already eating (which you aren't doing, otherwise you would have gained weight naturally) then you will just go back down to 147!

 

[bigpapa]

I agree 100%. Eating 7000 calories in a day is HARD to do if you eat normal foods dude. Write down everything you eat in a day and post it here!

not if he eats mcdonalds everyday lol. 7000 calories could be done before lunch lol. yea never know...could have a tapeworm...

 

[thegodfather]

I think the "BAN" button is being uncovered again.

 

[rasman102]

you know in all honesty im not concerned too much about numbers...my biggest concern is getting some meat on my legs and midsection...i find myself getting stronger in my arms and chest, but my frame is still small, so it gets tough to keep good form with higher weight. i love upright rowing and my deltoids are proof of such, but i hit a wall once in a while just because i can't keep my legs from shaking under the pressure. However, i am doing a lot more dumbells to work on my stablizer muscles and im gonna kill on my leg days, as i did today. Im gonna go knock down some black bean nachos right now, but im gonna start a diet log soon. thanx again guys.

 

[Bigchourico]

not if he eats mcdonalds everyday lol. 7000 calories could be done before lunch lol. yea never know...could have a tapeworm...

Mcdonald is great bulking food....If your 14......

 

[MrBigPR]

Truly doubt he is getting in 7k calories... Let's see a diet

 

[russianstar]

lol what a thread.

 

[Random181]

Its not that bad to bulk with maccies...classical ectos FTW!!!

 

[rasman102]

Here it is...

ratio is protein grams:carb grams:fat grams and approximate

breakfast - 1200 cals 2:3:1

intra-workout - 100 cals

post workout/mid-day shake - 600 cals 2:1

lunch - 1000 cals 1:2:2

dinner - 800 cals 1:2:2

after-dinner shake - 600 cals 2:1:1

snacks throughout the day (bars, yogurt, vegies, fruit)- 2000 cals 2:2:1

So my total is 6300 cals/day; however, i'd say my true range is 5500 to 6500.
Average is about 6000 cals/day.

I'm glad you guys actually pushed me to do this...its quite tedious, but now imma keep a closer watch on it. :thanks:

I'm likeing the results of this cycle thus far. I've gained some dry mass, some strength, and my sleep cycle is regulated almost down to the minute. Overall, I feel comfortable with this cycle, because i'm seeing steady results, but nothing flashy. I got some nasty back and shoulder pumps, but with the addition of some systematic enzymes and b vitamins, im good to go.

A couple additions that I think could help me is some waximaize for added, easy carbs and some cassein before bed.

 

[timmmah]

ratio is protein grams:carb grams:fat grams and approximate

breakfast - 1200 cals 2:3:1

intra-workout - 100 cals

post workout/mid-day shake - 600 cals 2:1

lunch - 1000 cals 1:2:2

dinner - 800 cals 1:2:2

after-dinner shake - 600 cals 2:1:1

snacks throughout the day (bars, yogurt, vegies, fruit)- 2000 cals 2:2:1

So my total is 6300 cals/day; however, i'd say my true range is 5500 to 6500.
Average is about 6000 cals/day.

I'm glad you guys actually pushed me to do this...its quite tedious, but now imma keep a closer watch on it. :thanks:

I'm likeing the results of this cycle thus far. I've gained some dry mass, some strength, and my sleep cycle is regulated almost down to the minute. Overall, I feel comfortable with this cycle, because i'm seeing steady results, but nothing flashy. I got some nasty back and shoulder pumps, but with the addition of some systematic enzymes and b vitamins, im good to go.

A couple additions that I think could help me is some waximaize for added, easy carbs and some cassein before bed.

I can see that you have some knowledge of the things that you need to do to get big. Casein before bed, high-carb breakfast, etc.... you obviously know how to research- but, steroids should not be added until one reaches a plateu in ones training. At your age and weight, there is many a pound to be gained just by lifting and dieting correctly. Here's what I would do in your shoes:

1. Eat like a horse for REAL, 250 grams of protein a day MIN. complex carbs, potatoes, oatmeal, brown rice, no white bread or fast food, it only fills you up with junk when you could be full of goodness(no homo).

2. Lift heavy. Monday Heavy bench, low reps. pull-ups, weighted if possible.
Tuesday off, rest, sleep a ton! like 8-10 hours a day!
Wednesday Squats, good form, ask around the gym, make SURE you do them right, don't f-up your back. As many squats as possible!
Thursday rest, REST!!! Don't have an arm day, don't do serpentine curls and arnold presses for definition, you're not there yet, Eat and rest!
Friday, Dead lift! ask around, use proper form, don't f-up you're back. Do it till you puke! (not really, puking really messes up your stomach's balance of acid, and all that food is soo precious, f-it PUKE!).weekends-party, you're not a gym rat yet.

3. Don't do steroids! (yet) OR I'LL COME FIND YOU AND BLISTER YOUR ASS!
(no homo)
:spank:

 

[Mikey851]

^ That was a funny post. True but funny. IMO, he could get away with a little more training than that. The best shape i've ever been in (highest body weight and lowest body fat%) was when I played basketball in highschool and we lifted weights 3 days a week and ran on the track everyday.

Then again what do I know, I'm 20lbs under my target weight right now too; maybe I need to take this advice.

 

[rasman102]

yea i do way too much arms and not enough core-building...i got used to seeing great gains wit my arms, so i neglected the rest. On a positive note I have been deadlifting and now squating more. The weight that ive gained over the past two weeks has gone mainly to my legs and a lil to my arms.

i also have an over-training issue...i am a gym rat...im there 5-6 days a week...i need to work on recovery time. Once again thanks guys for all your insight.

 

[strong bad]

I'd worry about my liver if I were you. 8 weeks of Tren 19-nor orals at 120 mg plus 4 weeks of Dianabol without any milk thistle? Plus Benzo is liver-toxic itself, so you are really putting a stress on your system. You're 21, it wouldn't surprise me if you are drinking on the weekends as well.
.

 

[Zero V]

I'd worry about my liver if I were you. 8 weeks of Tren 19-nor orals at 120 mg plus 4 weeks of Dianabol without any milk thistle? Plus Benzo is liver-toxic itself, so you are really putting a stress on your system. You're 21, it wouldn't surprise me if you are drinking on the weekends as well.
.

neither of those are methylated...

yea i do way too much arms and not enough core-building...i got used to seeing great gains wit my arms, so i neglected the rest. On a positive note I have been deadlifting and now squating more. The weight that ive gained over the past two weeks has gone mainly to my legs and a lil to my arms.

i also have an over-training issue...i am a gym rat...im there 5-6 days a week...i need to work on recovery time. Once again thanks guys for all your insight.

What is your training? Can you give a detailed week long regime you do? 6 days in the gym doesnt mean over training, if you do it right....your probably hitting your arms multiple times a week...

 

[rasman102]

neither of those are methylated...



What is your training? Can you give a detailed week long regime you do? 6 days in the gym doesnt mean over training, if you do it right....your probably hitting your arms multiple times a week...

Thanx V, but dbol is 17 alkalated; however, i have always taken NAC and Ubiquinol throughout the day regardless...and no I don't "drink on the weekends". At most i'll have a few beers or a mixed drink when I eat out once in a while.

As far as training...
day one is arms and back
day two is chest and usually some triceps (which i need to chill with)
day three legs and some back
day four and rarely five...rest
...rinse and repeat

i also have a habit of going at like 10 after work and doing some circuit training, when I already worked out in the morning and am going to the next morning

my boss at work thinks i should do an 11-oxo bridge, which seems to make sense. I mean dbol has been shown to keep cort at bay. I've read mixed reviews on 11-oxo standalone, but everyone seems to like this whole bridging thing. Any ideas?

 

[rasman102]

I'd worry about my liver if I were you. 8 weeks of Tren 19-nor orals at 120 mg plus 4 weeks of Dianabol without any milk thistle? Plus Benzo is liver-toxic itself, so you are really putting a stress on your system. You're 21, it wouldn't surprise me if you are drinking on the weekends as well.
.

1mg daily of clonazepam strolls right on through the liver...i doubt i have to worry about it

 

[brittishbulldog]

A Couple weeks ago I started running Tren 19-Nor (which is 19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione) I've been running 120mg per day which has worked quite nicely, with no noticable sides. In conjunction with this I am taking Himalaya Livercare, but no milk thistle, because I am on a mild benzo dose (bad combo). Also I take 6-oxo and my own version of ZMA (actually zinc orotate and magnesium taurate...my favorite zinc salt and mag ester) at bedtime.

I am planning to run this cycle for 8 weeks followed by some 95% divanil and Reversitol for 4 weeks. If I were to run an anabolic such dianabol (~30 mg/day) as a mid-cycle add-on (weeks 2-6 of the 19-Nor cycle), do I need to worry about a true SERM when all is said and done?:dunno:

WTF ARE YOU MAD OR DO YOU WANT A PAIR A MELONS.

 

[Steveoph]

Instead of posting target cals, could you keep a food log of exactly what you eat? Just tear a piece of paper, write down everything that you consume that day, and type it up. Even with targets, I think 6-7k is a overestimation.

 

[rammy222]

Thanx V, but dbol is 17 alkalated; however, i have always taken NAC and Ubiquinol throughout the day regardless...and no I don't "drink on the weekends". At most i'll have a few beers or a mixed drink when I eat out once in a while.

As far as training...
day one is arms and back
day two is chest and usually some triceps (which i need to chill with)
day three legs and some back
day four and rarely five...rest
...rinse and repeat

i also have a habit of going at like 10 after work and doing some circuit training, when I already worked out in the morning and am going to the next morning

my boss at work thinks i should do an 11-oxo bridge, which seems to make sense. I mean dbol has been shown to keep cort at bay. I've read mixed reviews on 11-oxo standalone, but everyone seems to like this whole bridging thing. Any ideas?

Fix your routine... Overtraining arms..
You grow out of the gym not in it..

 

[Drjuicebox06]

you should squat then bench after in the same day hahahaha jk

 

[callaway]

Personally, I think this guy is full of ****.

 

[rasman102]

Personally, I think this guy is full of ****.

wow, ur useful...nd what might u mean by that intelligent remark?

 

[Mikey851]

wow, ur useful...nd what might u mean by that intelligent remark?

I'm not saying it's a warranted statement but I think he means everything you are saying in this thread is either overexaggerated or a lie. The only thing I think sounds wrong is the amount of calories you say you eat; you should at least gain some fat from that many calories a day.

A big mac with supersize fries contains 1250 calories so that means you would have to eat almost 6 big macs with supersized fries a day to hit 7000 calories or at 300 calories a slice (dominoes hand tossed) you would have to eat roughly 24 pieces a day; and that's with fast food. If you did it with chicken and rice (216 calories per cup of rice and 50 calories per oz of chicken with 50/50 rice and chicken) you would have to eat 16 cups of rice and 70 oz of chicken to hit 7000 calories.

 

[callaway]

wow, ur useful...nd what might u mean by that intelligent remark?

How about you stop jerking everyone around and actually post your diet. You say you are eating 7000 calories a day, training like a mad man, 21yrs old (meaning you should have naturally high test levels), and can't gain a single pound without anabolics...........at 147lbs! It means I think you are full of ****.......period.

 

[Random181]

How about you stop jerking everyone around and actually post your diet. You say you are eating 7000 calories a day, training like a mad man, 21yrs old (meaning you should have naturally high test levels), and can't gain a single pound without anabolics...........at 147lbs! It means I think you are full of ****.......period.

I am highly inclined to agree here...that and the fact that in your rep earlier you admitted you were pissing about....quite honestly I personally do eat 5.5k cals a day for real (yes Ive counted and log them) and I find it extremely hard to believe that you could be getting 6k and not growing at that weight and IMO if you really are eating that much and not growing I would see a doctor cos something is seriously ****ed with yout thyroid/digestive system...now if you actually want some useful advice, stop taking steroids now and post your actual meals up so we can sort them out....

 

[MrBigPR]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you can't gain on a 7k Calorie diet regardless of circumstance, get a new hobby.