Next cutting cycle thoughts. Win & Prop

[faceman35]

I am starting to plan out my next cycle. I just finished a bulking cycle.
test cyp 500mg week 1-12
dbol 25mg week 1-4
PCT Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Today is actually the starting week two of the PCT.

I am pre planning my next cycle that will be a cutting cycle.
I was thinking:
Test Prop week 1-8
Winstrol week 1-6
PCT Nolva 40/40/20/20

My goals have never been to be really huge! The last cycle was my first cycle and this one will probably be my last. I just really want to hold on to as much lean mass as I can through the cut.
My plan is to continue my bulking diet for 30 days after the post cycle. Then start to cutting.
And then start this cycle another 30 days after that. (so 90 days off from gear ).

I would love to hear any thoughts on gear, dosage, or schedule of diet or gear. None of this is set in stone just planning it all out.

 

[samadhismiles]

Here's a modern PCT. I've been thinking about it awhile now...I ran HCG during cycle and it worked good to prevent atrophy...but this guy swears this is top notch. Dunno really though...

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

 

[mooch2321]

tony roberts is kind of a joke.....and ive seen that many times before about nolva being just as, if not more, effective than clomid at stimulating lh....i can tell you right now, things on paper dont always pan out in the real world. Clomid is much more effective at stimulating lh and nolva is better at controlling estrogen....thats how it is....a comprehensive pct should use both of them....

 

[texastweeter]

i agree with mooch. plus nolva is better ar repairing lipid profiles. On paper there were weapons of mass destruction...

 

[bigpapa]

im going to do that same cycle, except i am using winstrol at the end and am using t3 and clen as well. def use clomid and nolva for pct, better safe than sorry.

 

[faceman35]

ya a friend of mine suggested to run clen through out the cycle with two weeks on two weeks off. Or something like that.

 

[nosnmiveins]

i get no different results from prop, enan and cyp.....besides gyno from prop (or combo of prop/ace). with that being said, u want to cut bodyfat fairly slowly as to not lose muscle so i would suggest running enan or cyp for 10-12 weeks and add winny at the end.

id only use prop/winstrol if i was on a STRICT cutting diet and the AAS was there to ONLY preserve muscle.


but this of course is just my opinion

 

[samadhismiles]

why would you get gyno from prop and not from enan?

Mooch, would it be alright to add just a small dose of clomid to that PCT Roberts suggested? I have heard there are problems with clomid with emotional problems and vision problems so that is why I went with nolvadex only. I'm open to changing though/experimenting as long as its not too radical and going to get me hurt.

 

[mooch2321]

50mgs of clomid is what i use....no need for more and at that dose you should see zero side effects.....

 

[samadhismiles]

sweet well I will add it then next time. Thanks bro!

 

[faceman35]

id only use prop/winstrol if i was on a STRICT cutting diet and the AAS was there to ONLY preserve muscle.


but this of course is just my opinion

Thats exactly what I wanted to use it for. Preserve and I would follow a strict diet. I am really good at following a strict diet.

 

[samadhismiles]

how much fat do you have to lose? If its 5-15 pounds then I'd suggest you get a mg of IGF and use that to cut. Its insane stuff for cutting and you won't have to put your balls through the rack just to shed some pounds.

Also can add yohimbine and green tea (modest doses of former, large doses of latter).

And fasted AM cardio sessions with an evening carb-cutoff (this will let you go into the cardio depleted of some glycogen).

I really don't see any reason to use a full steroid cycle to cut with...but then again I only ever have 5-10 to cut.

 

[faceman35]

so I think I might go with this.
WEEKS 1- 6: Winstrol 50mg Every Other Day
WEEKS 1- 6: Trenabol 75mg Every Other Day
WEEKS 1-8: Clenbuterol 80-100mcg 14 days ON, 14 days OFF
WEEKS 1- 8: Testosterone Propionate 50mg Every Other Day
WEEK 8: 40mg Nolva/100mg Clomid Every Day
WEEK 9: 30mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid Every Day
WEEK 10: 20mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid Every Day
Week 11; 20mg Nlova/ 50mg Clomid Every Day

 

[samadhismiles]

I'd inject prop everyday so blood levels would be stable.

 

[mooch2321]

so I think I might go with this.
WEEKS 1- 6: Winstrol 50mg Every Other Day
WEEKS 1- 6: Trenabol 75mg Every Other Day
WEEKS 1-8: Clenbuterol 80-100mcg 14 days ON, 14 days OFF
WEEKS 1- 8: Testosterone Propionate 50mg Every Other Day
WEEK 8: 40mg Nolva/100mg Clomid Every Day
WEEK 9: 30mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid Every Day
WEEK 10: 20mg Nolva/ 50mg Clomid Every Day
Week 11; 20mg Nlova/ 50mg Clomid Every Day

i dont think you will need that much nolva or clomid in those first weeks....50mgs ed clomid has been plenty sufficient for me on much longer cycles than this....

 

[faceman35]

i dont think you will need that much nolva or clomid in those first weeks....50mgs ed clomid has been plenty sufficient for me on much longer cycles than this....

ok. so what do you think about the other dosages and frequency?

 

[EasyEJL]

personally I think winstrol is ok to maybe low, tren possibly high if its your first time, and prop probably ok. should start the tren first week at 50 eod id think just to get feel of it. some people take the sides poorly.

have you run either winny or tren before? if you haven't run them both before, i'd suggest to stick with one rather than both.

 

[faceman35]

have you run either winny or tren before? if you haven't run them both before, i'd suggest to stick with one rather than both.

I have run the american cell labs pro hormone of the winny (ah-89) and their tren.
But I have not run either one of them as AAS

To elaborate the only things I have ran have been these:

october-november ran ACL's tren for two weeks. (had to do some unexpected travel and cut it short because I was not able to work out as much as I would have like to during it).

january-feb ran ACL's AH-89 (pro hormone version of winny

March-May ran dbol/test cyp

 

[EasyEJL]

the prohormone tren is nothing at all like real tren, and the prohormone winny is still a bit different. i'd suggest going with one or the other then rather than both

 

[faceman35]

the prohormone tren is nothing at all like real tren, and the prohormone winny is still a bit different. i'd suggest going with one or the other then rather than both

I know they are not the same I was just referencing my history.

 

[EasyEJL]

Well, my point was that mixing up a few things you've never run before at once isn't a great idea and considering that your prior testosterone run was cyp rather than prop, all 3 will be new. So i'd think test/tren or test/winny would be better combination to try than all 3. Mostly just to separate out sides, if you start to get excessive bloat, joint pain, hairloss, etc winny + tren have some sides that both can cause

 

[faceman35]

When I was on the dbol and test cyp my water retention on dbol was moderate for dbol. However when the four weeks was up I dropped the water weight and did not retain that much water considering the gear that I was using.
I don’t have any trouble with hair loss. My grandpa on my moms side had a full head of hair till the day he died.

But I think I will probably cut out the tren. And just stick with the test prop and winn. Really my goal is to just preserve as much muscle as possible through the cut and the test prop will probably do a pretty good job of that.

 

[mooch2321]

id cut the winni and run the tren with the prop....if your gonna drop anything....

 

[texastweeter]

see, id keep the winney in but run it weeks 4-8, and i need to edit my earlier post, clomid is better at repairing lipid profiles, not nolva.

 

[faceman35]

I think I might drop the clen and run anivar. What does would you guys recommend?

 

[Gutterpump]

To elaborate the only things I have ran have been these:

october-november ran ACL's tren for two weeks. (had to do some unexpected travel and cut it short because I was not able to work out as much as I would have like to during it).

january-feb ran ACL's AH-89 (pro hormone version of winny

March-May ran dbol/test cyp

You did these all basically back to back?

 

[faceman35]

"october-november ran ACL's tren for two weeks. (had to do some unexpected travel and cut it short because I was not able to work out as much as I would have like to during it)."

There was a 6 week time period between the above and the AH-89 cycle. And 6 weeks inbetween the AH-89 and the test/dbol cycle.

Keep in mind I only ran the tren for two weeks then cut it short.
And the AH-89 is so mildly anabolic and that was only four weeks.