Impovements on the old Method
- 01-23-2004, 06:09 PM
Impovements on the old Method
Chemo. I found this old conversion on another board. Spidey and I have been talking about it there might be some instances where this can be improved IMO, but Spidey seems to not like this method all together. I'll put the improvements in red.
Homebrew Fina without the kit
To dispel the myth of having to purchase a kit for fina conversion.
1. Oil of choice (cottonseed, peanut, sesame, vegetable, etc.)
2. Benzyl alcohol
- bacteriostatic agent and solvent
3. Benzyl benzoate
- cosolvent that helps to alleviate crystallization at the depot
4. 2 syringe needles
5. 1 .45 um sterile syringe filter
6. 1 syringe (30 mL or larger)
7. 1 vial (25 mL or large, preferably sterile)
1. Take ~50 mL of oil and heat in the microwave until hot. This is done to sterilize the oil to be used. You can use a small Pyrex dish (with cover) from Wal-mart, large shot glass, etc. Be careful when removing because it will burn. After removal immediately cover (with saran wrap, plastic lid, etc.) to maintain some degree of sterility.
2. With the oil still warm (not hot) mix 30 mL of 5% benzyl alcohol, 15-20% benzyl benzoate, and 75-80% sterile oil.
i.e. - 1.5 mL BA + 6 mL BB + 22.5 mL oil = 30 mL of BA/BB/oil
A syringe may by used to measure the amounts with great convenience.
Spidey believes that Trenbolone acetate isn't very soluble in oil. I searched for information on it and all I can find is it's CAS#10161-34-9 and MF C20H24O3. I know that the longer the ester the more soluble it is in oil and less soluble in water. Acetate is rather short in comparison to others, so would it be better to dissolve in BA/BB and then add oil?
3. Use 10 mL of this solution to soak and crush the pellets. If this is done quickly the solution may still be warm and aid in extraction. If not, gently heat may help. Simply boil a pot off water, remove the water from the heat, and swirl the fina pellets/BA/BB/oil mix around for a few minutes.
4. Allow to settle and remove the layer of oil. Don’t worry about getting ALL the oil. It is more important to keep from sucking up the sediment at the bottom. Place this oil into a sterilized container (big shot glass that has been microwaved) and cover.
5. Use an additional 10 mL of the BA/BB/sterile oil mix and repeat steps 3 & 4.
6. After adding the oil mix and extracting 2 times you may want to dump the sludge into a coffee filter and gently squeeze to remove additional fina.
7. There should be a combined ~ 20 mL of BA/BB/oil/fina in the sterilized shot glass now. Suck all this up in the syringe and measure what you have. If it is less than 20 mL add more oil (from step #1) until it is EXACTLY 20 mL. If you have 20 on the dot don’t worry about adding any more.
8. Sterile filter this 20 mL into a vented vial.
It seems that a 0.45micron filter is the norm, but Spidey brought up a good point about spores slipping through. He feels that a 0.20micron filter will do a much better job of catching spores.
9. Get an additional 5 mL of oil (from step #1) and send it through the filter as well. This flushes the good stuff out of the filter (purging). You now have 25 mL of good stuff TOTAL in the vial.
10. While still vented, heat the vial in the oven at 200 degrees for 30 minutes. Remove and allow to cool. Do this a total of 3 times.
This is one point that Spidey and I aren't in total agreement. I can't find any data to support his claim, but it is reasonable. He thinks that heat will degrade the tren and that heating isn't a good idea. It seems to me that heating is the final step that would make this thing work. Can anyone direct me to some physical data on tren?
11. After it has cooled, ENJOY 76-80 mg/mL OF HOMEBREWED GOODNESS!
Some helpful hints:
It is best to be as clean as possible when making homebrew injectables. BA and the heating step at the end go a long way for sterilization but cannot stand up to a slob.
Use the BB. Homebrew injectables have a long standing history with BA alone but it is miscible with water. After injection the BA leaves the depot site which is not too bad if using a long chain ester. Fina has an acetate (2 carbons long) and tends to crystallize at the depot without a solvent or cosolvent = PAIN. The BA leaves the depot after injection but the BB hangs around to keep the fina in solution = LESS PAIN. I have prepared 200 mg/mL and the pain is less than 100 mg/mL with just BA...I can tell by the cows moo
BB is not miscible in water and BA is only miscible at 0.34g/100ml water.
For those familiar with kits notice that these are basically the same steps. The only difference is that you now know what “magic ingredients” are in the magic solution…BA + BB (bacteriostatic agent / solvent / cosolvent).
The method that Spidey is suggesting is to dissolve the Fina in Acetone, filter, then evaporate the acetone/tren untill all you have is yellow tren crystalls. That sounds about right, but I've never heard of anyone doing it that way before. Opinions?
Last edited by candle25; 01-23-2004 at 06:29 PM.
- 01-23-2004, 06:15 PM
Why not just buy a tren base powder, and throw it in T-gel. No where near the hassle.
- 01-23-2004, 06:17 PM
I agree, but some people have no source and still need to know how to do the conversion.
01-23-2004, 06:40 PM
True, glad I have someweher to get it.
I would mess that conversion up badly.
01-23-2004, 07:08 PM
I don't think I'd mess it up, but I'm still glad that I don't have a need to attempt it.
*A note about why it might not be good to heat Tren is due to air oxidation. Spidey pointed out that this is the reason for the soln darkening when you heat it. Tren also has 3 conjugated double bonds. The more conjugated a compound is, the easier it can be air oxidized. Such oxidation products are likely to be darker colored than tren acetate as well.
Last edited by candle25; 01-23-2004 at 09:02 PM.
02-01-2004, 05:34 PM
TA is not as oil soluble as longer esters but will still dissolve in plain oil to 200 mg/mL very easily.Originally Posted by candle25
The filter does a lot for sterilization but the heat shock will neutralize everything else...including the spores. Typically in a pellet conversion the raw material is not as clean as USP powders and that small of a pore size will clog easily (maybe after 5 mL's or so).Originally Posted by candle25
Heat will not degrade the tren.Originally Posted by candle25
BB does not leave the depot as rapidly since it is not miscible with water. However, with respect to BA after injection, remember there is no equalibrium and will constantly partition into systemic circulation.Originally Posted by candle25
As you know, that .34 g/mL is at EQUILIBRIUM. Once inside the body the closed system is all the fluid in the body. As an estimate, let's say there are 7 liters of blood. That would hold that almost 24 grams of BA will be absorbed before the equilibrium is satisfied.
Acetone will degrade the tren chemically and this is most evident if using heat while extracting. I would rather use methanol...Originally Posted by candle25
02-01-2004, 05:36 PM
BTW, link me to the board that you are discussing this on.
02-04-2004, 12:36 AM
What board was the discussion taking place?Originally Posted by Chemo
02-04-2004, 09:27 AM
Here's the link bro's. It will be interesting to see your opinions as well. Please keep in mind that we are all interested in helping one another with knowledge and continualy improving our methods of homebrewing.
02-07-2004, 08:33 PM
02-07-2004, 09:04 PM
You brought up some good points about the hybridization of the structure. Like I had mentioned when Spidey brought it up, I wasn't aware that the more conjugated compound the more likely it is to oxidize. I agreed with him on the point though, because I see it happen quite often with other compounds. Well, actually Ni(CH3COO)2 x XH2O. I'm sure you can see how heat could oxidize such a compound. Visually the color does darken. I will be doing a powder conversion soon & will likely try using 0.2 micron filters. I'll let everyone know how that goes.
02-07-2004, 09:10 PM
Extended conjugation results in easier oxidation ONLY in the case of organo-metallics...which I bring up during the discussion after he replies.
02-07-2004, 09:15 PM
BTW, as you already know your cited nickel acetate hydrate specie is an organo-metallic.
02-08-2004, 07:09 AM
Lol..I know that. I've made compounds like that for years for Acros, Henkel, Akzo, and many other companies you might have heard of. I just used that as an example as I don't work with hormones on a daily basis. This whole research aspect is just an intrest of mine. I'm in no way an expert on the subject. I'm here to learn and try to help when I can. I didn't see any activity on that thread at SM. Did you say that Spidey responded? I was tempted to respond there myself but I thought I'd leave the discussion the the experts. I'll go look now.
02-08-2004, 09:20 AM
Don't settle for being tempted...go respond and discuss the topic. A singular viewpoint is seldom the correct one. Input is needed from all peers and a consensus reached.
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