Proper PCT for Testosterone Replacement Therapy

[snowbird]

As the title says im already on TRT just from naturally low test.
Cycle will be:
10 weeks of test e at 400mg
4 weeks of dbol at 30mg

Just curious since im not really trying to stimulate natural production at the end of this. Im thinking I run HCG on cycle like normal and just keep arimidex on hand for the duration of the cycle and pct for estrogen related sides.

Does that sound about right? Looking for suggestions. And when do i get my TRT injection again after cylce ends?

 

[snowbird]

Ok PCT is probably not the right word then but i would still think i should have something for estrogen problems?

Maybe i worded this wrong. I am currently on TRT but am planning an actual real cylce in a few months. My question is what precautions should I take for during and after cycle. And how long should i wait after my last injection of test E before the doctor injects me again?

 

[Steveoph]

There isn't much to worry about if you don't plan on coming off the TRT. Do you run hCG during your regular TRT, and if so at what dose? And for your regular TRT injection from the doc, what do you usually get (Test E I assume?).
Somehow I don't feel you're ready or need the cycle, but it's your body and I don't try and tell people how to live their lives.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

As the title says im already on TRT just from naturally low test.
Cycle will be:
10 weeks of test e at 400mg
4 weeks of dbol at 30mg

Just curious since im not really trying to stimulate natural production at the end of this. Im thinking I run HCG on cycle like normal and just keep arimidex on hand for the duration of the cycle and pct for estrogen related sides.

Does that sound about right? Looking for suggestions. And when do i get my TRT injection again after cylce ends?

what are your test levels coming back while on TRT?

 

[snowbird]

There isn't much to worry about if you don't plan on coming off the TRT. Do you run hCG during your regular TRT, and if so at what dose? And for your regular TRT injection from the doc, what do you usually get (Test E I assume?).
Somehow I don't feel you're ready or need the cycle, but it's your body and I don't try and tell people how to live their lives.

Ill check again but i believe its Test E at 100mg once a month. No HCG currently. The cycle is planned for later this fall. I am very dry and depleted right now from a long cut. I hope to be sitting at a solid 170 before i start the cycle. I have a really small bone structure and am naturally the weight of a small girl. But enough of me trying to justify it. Just looking for how to run it.

what are your test levels coming back while on TRT?

Blood work is scheduled about a month out. Just swichted recently from androgel too the injection. Havent seen what they are on the injection yet.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Ill check again but i believe its Test E at 100mg once a month. No HCG currently. The cycle is planned for later this fall. I am very dry and depleted right now from a long cut. I hope to be sitting at a solid 170 before i start the cycle. I have a really small bone structure and am naturally the weight of a small girl. But enough of me trying to justify it. Just looking for how to run it.



Blood work is scheduled about a month out. Just swichted recently from androgel too the injection. Havent seen what they are on the injection yet.

i presume your going to hold off on the cycle until after the blood panel?

 

[snowbird]

i presume your going to hold off on the cycle until after the blood panel?

Yeah definitely. Cycle plan isnt until september. Blood work is July.

 

[snowbird]

100mg once a month? what? I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about

Like i said Ill check when i go back in. You can kindly fuk off. Youve done nothing but talked down to me in the threads where you responded to my question. Ill take someone else's advice and help now thank you.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I have to say, "cycling" while simultaneously implementing TRT under a physician's supervision is generally an unwise idea. TRT is not only about Testosterone, but restoring normal endocrinological function as a whole, including the normalization of glucocorticoids, adrenals, mineralcorticoids and thyroid function, for example. Exponential increases in androgens while on doctor-supervised TRT has the potential to destabilize progress you have made in these other areas, and recovery may not be the simple step of reducing the heightened androgen dosage back to TRT-levels; your actions, then, have the potential to result in a destabilization of endocrine function as a whole. As well, on a more practical-relational level, it seems an ironic choice to partake the in the exact opposite activity of what TRT seeks to address.

 

[snowbird]

I have to say, "cycling" while simultaneously implementing TRT under a physician's supervision is generally an unwise idea. TRT is not only about Testosterone, but restoring normal endocrinological function as a whole, including the normalization of glucocorticoids, adrenals, mineralcorticoids and thyroid function, for example. Exponential increases in androgens while on doctor-supervised TRT has the potential to destabilize progress you have made in these other areas, and recovery may not be the simple step of reducing the heightened androgen dosage back to TRT-levels; your actions, then, have the potential to result in a destabilization of endocrine function as a whole. As well, on a more practical-relational level, it seems an ironic choice to partake the in the exact opposite activity of what TRT seeks to address.

Thanks for the knowledgeable post. The TRT was something I believe i have to take indefinitely. I would still like to cycle though. Id just like to find what is necessary for me to have with my cycle and how to transition back into my TRT after the cycle is completed.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Thanks for the knowledgeable post. The TRT was something I believe i have to take indefinitely. I would still like to cycle though. Id just like to find what is necessary for me to have with my cycle and how to transition back into my TRT after the cycle is completed.

No problem. The difficulty in transitioning is what I was, in so many words, attempting to allude to. As I said previously, TRT attends to the modulation of the entire range and scope of endocrine function, and not just the menial increase of Testosterone itself: it requires a great degree of supervision and specificity of administration in order to normalize the endocrine panel as a whole - as such, destabilizing a carefully-reached hormonal balance through the addition of supraphysiological doses of androgens may not be the wisest decision, quality-of-life wise.

 

[snowbird]

No problem. The difficulty in transitioning is what I was, in so many words, attempting to allude to. As I said previously, TRT attends to the modulation of the entire range and scope of endocrine function, and not just the menial increase of Testosterone itself: it requires a great degree of supervision and specificity of administration in order to normalize the endocrine panel as a whole - as such, destabilizing a carefully-reached hormonal balance through the addition of supraphysiological doses of androgens may not be the wisest decision, quality-of-life wise.

Not gonna lie most of that was over my head haha. Basically what i got from it was i can further damage an already damaged problem? I completely aware of that and have accepted it.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Not gonna lie most of that was over my head haha. Basically what i got from it was i can further damage an already damaged problem? I completely aware of that and have accepted it.

More or less. The point is that wildly fluctuating hormone levels while under doctor-supervised TRT/HRT is incredibly unwise. I am not only speaking about potential post-TRT endocrine function, but the restoring of proper endocrinological balance while remaining on HRT, and; of course, one must also consider the possibility of being denied treatment when a blood test reveals exponentially increased Total T., E2, mineralcorticoid levels, T3 and so forth. Most Endocrinologists would not be so keen as to treat an individual that is cavalierly substituting androgens while under their care!

Being on TRT is undertaking a modality meant to address a specific pathology; in this case, the deficiency of the chief androgen, Testosterone, and/or an imbalance to the hormonal "mix" as a whole. I am amiss as to why you would choose to throw an unnecessary wrench in the gears while you are attempting to address a very real pathology. My advice would be this: forget the "cycle", and enjoy the fact you have found an Endo/GP willing to administer an alto misunderstood treatment modality, and; subsequently, enjoy the quality of life you are [most probably] receiving from it. This may be a solitary opinion, but this seems quite an unnecessary and potentially harmful step.

All this being said, this is your body, and these are my words; specifically, words coming from somebody who tends to err on the side of caution when it comes to endocrine function and androgen use!

 

[Mulletsoldier]

If he is only getting testosterone at a certain dose/week why are you overcomplicating everything to someone who clearly has no idea what "TRT" means, or what a "cycle" is..or even what "PCT" does.

Do you ever think prior to opening that feedhole of yours? I doubt it. To this point, you have demonstrated you have no clue how the body works. I suggest you sit back and take a few breathers prior to posting - read a book in the interim.

 

[snowbird]

If he is only getting testosterone at a certain dose/week why are you overcomplicating everything to someone who clearly has no idea what "TRT" means, or what a "cycle" is..or even what "PCT" does.

What have i said that implies any of that? Because i wasnt sure what HCG does. Because i dont know the exact dose my doctor gives me? Your a tool bro. Like asked leave the thread and go annoy someone else.

More or less. The point is that wildly fluctuating hormone levels while under doctor-supervised TRT/HRT is incredibly unwise. I am not only speaking about potential post-TRT endocrine function, but the restoring of proper endocrinological balance while remaining on HRT, and; of course, one must also consider the possibility of being denied treatment when a blood test reveals exponentially increased Total T., E2, mineralcorticoid levels, T3 and so forth. Most Endocrinologists would not be so keen as to treat an individual that is cavalierly substituting androgens while under their care!

Being on TRT is undertaking a modality meant to address a specific pathology; in this case, the deficiency of the chief androgen, Testosterone, and/or an imbalance to the hormonal "mix" as a whole. I am amiss as to why you would choose to throw an unnecessary wrench in the gears while you are attempting to address a very real pathology. My advice would be this: forget the "cycle", and enjoy the fact you have found an Endo/GP willing to administer an alto misunderstood treatment modality, and; subsequently, enjoy the quality of life you are [most probably] receiving from it. This may be a solitary opinion, but this seems quite an unnecessary and potentially harmful step.

All this being said, this is your body, and these are my words; specifically, words coming from somebody who tends to err on the side of caution when it comes to endocrine function and androgen use!

Ill definitely keep all of this in mind to decide on what I end up doing. Thanks again.

 

[samadhismiles]

how often are you getting blood tests? Once a month is what my buddy gets now that he's stabilized. You're going to throw up red flags to your doctor when he sees supraphysiological levels of testosterone (from your cycle). He (or she!) is going to be pissed at you for doing a bodybuilding steroid cycle when they are trying to fix your problem.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

how often are you getting blood tests? Once a month is what my buddy gets now that he's stabilized. You're going to throw up red flags to your doctor when he sees supraphysiological levels of testosterone (from your cycle). He (or she!) is going to be pissed at you for doing a bodybuilding steroid cycle when they are trying to fix your problem.

Yes, 100%. That is one of my primary concerns as well. Throwing a massive wrench into a just newly stabilized hormone "mix" is not a wise idea.

 

[EasyEJL]

More or less. The point is that wildly fluctuating hormone levels while under doctor-supervised TRT/HRT is incredibly unwise.

honestly though if his dosage of anything but undeconate (which isn't FDA approved in the US quite yet, undergoing final trials) is once a month, he's already seeing wild swings.

And gixxer, its not that this guy himself doesn't know what he's talking about so much that his doctor doesn't know what he's doing. There are more doctors prescribing TRT who should stay the hell out of it and instead refer to specialist. There was one member here getting I think it was 600mg of cyp once a month from his endocrinologist, and was wondering why he felt like god the first week, decent the second week and part of the third, and depressed the last week of the month... At least I found a doctor whose head isn't in his ass

 

[EasyEJL]

to add, adding 100-200mg of deca a week on top of your TRT will add some additional anabolism, without doing too much to throw the rest of your hormones out of whack, and will also help with joint issues if you happen to have some. dbol or higher testosterone doses will cause a lot more fluctuation. Some additional OTC ideas could be to add l-carnitine supplementation as that is shown to somewhat increase testosterone uptake into receptors, and also to add a nettle root/divanyl product to reduce shbg, making your current TRT dose have a larger free testosterone level.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

honestly though if his dosage of anything but undeconate (which isn't FDA approved in the US quite yet, undergoing final trials) is once a month, he's already seeing wild swings.

I was under the impression that NEBIDO's UDC ester was already approved, as the final six month FDA screening process began in September '08.

At any rate, there is a handful of esters he could be using with 14-21 day half-lives, and the point is introducing more hormones, especially in the doses he wants to, has the potential to cause way more concerns than benefits. Obviously, not the least of which being denied for treatment by his Endo., when his next blood test is out of whack.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I was under the impression that NEBIDO's UDC ester was already approved, as the final six month FDA screening process began in September '08.

At any rate, there is a handful of esters he could be using with 14-21 day half-lives, and the point is introducing more hormones, especially in the doses he wants to, has the potential to cause way more concerns than benefits. Obviously, not the least of which being denied for treatment by his Endo., when his next blood test is out of whack.

Never mind, Sep 2009 is the FDA's estimated decision date.

 

[EasyEJL]

hmm last I looked it wasn't available yet, but then 6 months out from september would have finished just in march, and I can't recall if i looked since then

Yeah, definitely what he is talking about taking and in that amount will cause some wild fluctuations, and more harm than good. But if he really is getting test-e as 100mg 1x a month, he needs to see a new doctor just for TRT purposes

 

[Mulletsoldier]

hmm last I looked it wasn't available yet, but then 6 months out from september would have finished just in march, and I can't recall if i looked since then

Yeah, definitely what he is talking about taking and in that amount will cause some wild fluctuations, and more harm than good. But if he really is getting test-e as 100mg 1x a month, he needs to see a new doctor just for TRT purposes

No, you were right E. It was up for final review in March [the 12th, to be exact] and the six month completion period then starts. So, FDA decision date ETA is September.

 

[EasyEJL]

I can't imagine them not approving it. only issue is that it still with a once every 12 week shot gives a bit more fluctuation than i'd like to see personally. so a bit of bloat the first few weeks which disappears over time. I talked to some outside the US people currently using it in TRT Still feels good the whole span at least for the guys on the 1000mg dosing, not sure about that 750mg for that length of time

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I can't imagine them not approving it. only issue is that it still with a once every 12 week shot gives a bit more fluctuation than i'd like to see personally. so a bit of bloat the first few weeks which disappears over time. I talked to some outside the US people currently using it in TRT Still feels good the whole span at least for the guys on the 1000mg dosing, not sure about that 750mg for that length of time

I would certainly prefer a more frequent dosing!

 

[samadhismiles]

yeah whats the point of such infrequent dosing? Just give me my script for cyp and let me inject it myself 2x a week (if I were going on TRT).

 

[EasyEJL]

well, the undeconate actually keeps measurable levels that long, and it enables you do get a shot quarterly in your doctors office (presumably right after getting blood drawn for a blood test) and so you dont have to keep needles, etc around at home. Also allows for easy travelling without having to worry about transport of those items. Once it is FDA approved, i may switch to it, but i'd split the dose to at longest once every 2 weeks

 

[snowbird]

how often are you getting blood tests? Once a month is what my buddy gets now that he's stabilized. You're going to throw up red flags to your doctor when he sees supraphysiological levels of testosterone (from your cycle). He (or she!) is going to be pissed at you for doing a bodybuilding steroid cycle when they are trying to fix your problem.

The blood tests for me are every three months. The shot for now is once a month. Ill check what the actually dose is when i go in next week. He said he wanted to start at this and will arrange it from there after the blood work. The thought has definitely occured to me and may postpone cycle ideas for a little further down the road. my thought is with the blood tests being three months apart. I get one right before the cycle and post pone the following one out an extra month giving me a month to level out during what would normally be a pct time. Nothings for sure yet though.

honestly though if his dosage of anything but undeconate (which isn't FDA approved in the US quite yet, undergoing final trials) is once a month, he's already seeing wild swings.

And gixxer, its not that this guy himself doesn't know what he's talking about so much that his doctor doesn't know what he's doing. There are more doctors prescribing TRT who should stay the hell out of it and instead refer to specialist. There was one member here getting I think it was 600mg of cyp once a month from his endocrinologist, and was wondering why he felt like god the first week, decent the second week and part of the third, and depressed the last week of the month... At least I found a doctor whose head isn't in his ass

Id like to think my doc knows what hes doing. The switch from androgel was very recent and still havent gotten any bloodwork done while on injection yet. He said we will move it accordingly once we get some blood work. Did you think the injection was too infrequent or the dosing seemed off?

Is everybody against the idea of a cycle while on trt? I plan on stopping the doctor injection for the duration of the cycle. I guess i thought it was pretty common amongst the community?

 

[EasyEJL]

both the dosing amount and frequency are terrible. AVERAGE TRT prescription for enanthate is around 100-125mg per week, and that is often done as 2 shots per week. Enanthate's half life is approx 5 days, so once a month dosing is terrible for it, and it doesn't require blood work to know that.

As far as others doing that, what you are talking about is more or less the "blast + cruise" scenario, where they use a high level of testosterone for a cycle, then go back to a maintenance/TRT dose. The problem is that without knowing all of what your doctor is trying to accomplish, and seeing all of your blood results as well its hard to say how far off trying to run a cycle can take you. Better to get the TRT working as TRT first and have stable levels to begin with before you think about destabilizing. Plus keep in mind, there is a difference between TRT for health and lifespan vs bodybuilders on the cruise part of their cycles.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

both the dosing amount and frequency are terrible. AVERAGE TRT prescription for enanthate is around 100-125mg per week, and that is often done as 2 shots per week. Enanthate's half life is approx 5 days, so once a month dosing is terrible for it, and it doesn't require blood work to know that.

As far as others doing that, what you are talking about is more or less the "blast + cruise" scenario, where they use a high level of testosterone for a cycle, then go back to a maintenance/TRT dose. The problem is that without knowing all of what your doctor is trying to accomplish, and seeing all of your blood results as well its hard to say how far off trying to run a cycle can take you. Better to get the TRT working as TRT first and have stable levels to begin with before you think about destabilizing. Plus keep in mind, there is a difference between TRT for health and lifespan vs bodybuilders on the cruise part of their cycles.

And Bingo was his name, oh.

 

[Steveoph]

I'd say you guys cleaned up nicely Hopefully the OP gets more frequent shots out of this, at the very least.

 

[snowbird]

both the dosing amount and frequency are terrible. AVERAGE TRT prescription for enanthate is around 100-125mg per week, and that is often done as 2 shots per week. Enanthate's half life is approx 5 days, so once a month dosing is terrible for it, and it doesn't require blood work to know that.

As far as others doing that, what you are talking about is more or less the "blast + cruise" scenario, where they use a high level of testosterone for a cycle, then go back to a maintenance/TRT dose. The problem is that without knowing all of what your doctor is trying to accomplish, and seeing all of your blood results as well its hard to say how far off trying to run a cycle can take you. Better to get the TRT working as TRT first and have stable levels to begin with before you think about destabilizing. Plus keep in mind, there is a difference between TRT for health and lifespan vs bodybuilders on the cruise part of their cycles.

That was about is clear as it gets thank you.

 

[lbplayer20]

ok! Nice

 

[snowbird]

I just wanted to bump this up and thank everybody for the help. I went to my doctor a few days ago and he is now letting me do the injection myself of 100mg once a week instead of 400mg once a month.

 

[EasyEJL]

that will feel sooooo much better in 2-3 weeks

 

[Steveoph]

I just wanted to bump this up and thank everybody for the help. I went to my doctor a few days ago and he is now letting me do the injection myself of 100mg once a week instead of 400mg once a month.

Glad to hear that :thumbsup: