Win a Free Copy of ANABOLIC PHARMACOLOGY

[sethroberts]

This is your chance to win a free copy of ANABOLIC PHARMACOLOGY. How do you win? Post in this thread the questions that you feel are unanswered or unresolved regarding AAS and other anabolics. I will choose the winner based on what I feel is the best unanswered question (I may choose more than one if I feel the questions warrent it). They do not have to be over-the-top scientific nor do they have to be about AAS -- For example, "Can using insulin to gain muscle result in diabetes?" In fact, they don't even need to be answerable - but plus spare us the absurd.

 

[buquicchioc09]

I feel this is a very under discussed topic on the forums. Most aas talk is geared towards just bbing. What should the aas regimen of a speed athlete, such as a sprinter, look like? How do they cycle for so long, what dosage, etc?

 

[sethroberts]

I wanted to add that subjective questions will not be scored very highly (Questions like "Which AAS is best for bulking") unless they are really unique.

 

[bigmoe65]

Why do PH/DS give people strange side effects unlike pharmacutical AAS'?

 

[reptone]

Is there a way to determine what anabolic is best suited for your needs(whatever they might be, BB, Speed, etc) by having blood analized before starting a cycle? Also would you be able to determine what pulsing schedule would work best for you?

 

[Schmazz]

Since we know that the Q-ratio is almost completely useless in determining how an androgen affects a person, is there any other way to predict how an androgen will work in vivo. Maybe looking at the actual molecular structure itself and determining it's affinity for binding to the AR (since flatter structures generally tend to bind to the AR better).

 

[Random181]

I would like your opinion on the idea of recreational androgen use for skeletal expansion seth: In your opinion could an increase in final adult be achieved by treatment with DHT without letrozole. My understanding of such a thing would be that non aramotizing DHT would cause an increase in bone growth while lowered amount of estrogen due to suppression would in term slow down the process of the growth plate closure. I would be very interested to hear your opinion on such an issue. Thankyou in advance for your time.

 

[bb4life]

if someone has to run a delayed post cycle therapy, what is the best way to dose hcg and clomid? and should they be run together or should the clomid be followed after the hcg?

 

[Resolve]

I have never used a pro-hormone because of the health problems associated with them. High Cholesterol, high blood pressure, androgen suppression, hepatoxicity, etc.

However, as time goes on and I learn bits more about phs here and there, I am beginning to question the long-term validity of those risks for some products. Suppression can be countered with good pct, cholesterol with other supps and/or diet, etc.

So, my question is, from a medical standpoint, just how detrimental are Phs (assuming proper on-cycle support and pct) on long-term health? If I were to run a couple of cycles over the next few years, would I be increasing my chances of a heart-attack, stroke, kidney failure, cancer, etc?

I am trying to look at the big picture here and do not want to jeopardize my well-being down the road for a few pound of LBM now.
__________________

 

[sethroberts]

Good questions so far. Let's keep them coming.

 

[TexasTitan]

Seth, I dont know if this will be considered a good question or not, it is subjective, but frankly Ive always wanted to ask you. I actually already have your book and its a great great informational guide. Would have been nice to have an index to look like the compound names fast but I cant complain.

But in your opinion, what are the best say..3 (legal) compounds today and why. It could be any reason, lack of sides compared to results, easy PCT, etc. Not only am I curious myself, but I would love to see your input. I realize thats probably not at all what you were looking for but Id love to see an answer.

My other question is pulsing, is it really worth it or not?

 

[Smiley]

I was wondering about the level of effect of testosterone usage. Would a cycle be more beneficial for a person with lower natural test levels? Would a person with higher natural levels need to use more for the same effect?

There seems to be a lot of broscience in this area, but i've never seen anything with actual research.

 

[Zero V]

Based off of the ability to manipulate the chemistry of steroids, and the ability to predict conversion of one hormone into another what can we expect in the future. I mean can we say every steroid ever is already drawn into a book, or based off of the understanding of anabolic androgenic steroids can we expect new creations in the future. As in a another way to tickle our androgen receptors maybe through advancements from current steroids into a chemical compound that can work like a steroids, but have less or side effects. Also how are synthetic steroids created. What raws are used and what methods are used to actually chemically bond every lil element into place to create a large amount of the end product. All a steroid is is simply many smaller pieces put together into something bigger.

 

[sethroberts]

Based off of the ability to manipulate the chemistry of steroids, and the ability to predict conversion of one hormone into another what can we expect in the future. I mean can we say every steroid ever is already drawn into a book, or based off of the understanding of anabolic androgenic steroids can we expect new creations in the future. As in a another way to tickle our androgen receptors maybe through advancements from current steroids into a chemical compound that can work like a steroids, but have less or side effects. Also how are synthetic steroids created. What raws are used and what methods are used to actually chemically bond every lil element into place to create a large amount of the end product. All a steroid is is simply many smaller pieces put together into something bigger.

Several good questions here. Can't wait to see what else you guys come up with.

 

[UKStrength]

I have one for you Seth regarding PCT and the 'testosterone taper method'.

It has been discussed quite a great deal on other forums such as t-nation, here's a thread for your convenience (although I'm sure you probably know how it works!)

Test Taper Protocol

This method of coming off AAS slowly, as opposed to the sharp halt in androgens following a cycle, is supposedly better for hpta recovery, minimising losses on cycle and reduces the dosages of other PCT agents (e.g. SERMS) during recovery.

Do you feel this is a viable method for PCT recovery?

...and if so could it (and should it) be advised for other compounds such as PH/DS?

 

[suncloud]

if HGH lasts for 1-2 days, and the CJC-1295 version lasts for a week, is there any way to tweak existing compounds to make them last longer? realistically, if we can increase a GH product to last 4x longer, could we do the same to steroids for bi monthly injections?

myostatin blockers - why isn't this being pursued through all science venues with regards to it slowing down the wasting disease of AIDS?

cancer cells grow faster when introduced to GH. is it possible to stop the spread of cancer via blocking/shutting down internal GH? follow up question : can we do that while making a strain of GH that is doseable, that cancer doesn't recognize?

that's all i got right now, sorry if its subpar.

 

[futurepilot]

Wouldn't running Clomid 25mgs ED on cycle be a smart way to help prevent the shutdown of natural test production?

 

[sethroberts]

if HGH lasts for 1-2 days, and the CJC-1295 version lasts for a week, is there any way to tweak existing compounds to make them last longer? realistically, if we can increase a GH product to last 4x longer, could we do the same to steroids for bi monthly injections?

myostatin blockers - why isn't this being pursued through all science venues with regards to it slowing down the wasting disease of AIDS?

cancer cells grow faster when introduced to GH. is it possible to stop the spread of cancer via blocking/shutting down internal GH? follow up question : can we do that while making a strain of GH that is doseable, that cancer doesn't recognize?

that's all i got right now, sorry if its subpar.

There are no subpar questions. Some are more thought-provoking than others but as has been said before, the only bad question is one not asked.

 

[TexasTitan]

There are no subpar questions. Some are more thought-provoking than others but as has been said before, the only bad question is one not asked.

You know...you could answer all of them :wave2:

 

[sethroberts]

You know...you could answer all of them :wave2:

I plan to. Anything that is answered in the book I will tell you it is answered in the book. Anything that is not, I will answer here -- sound fair?

 

[sethroberts]

I feel this is a very under discussed topic on the forums. Most aas talk is geared towards just bbing. What should the aas regimen of a speed athlete, such as a sprinter, look like? How do they cycle for so long, what dosage, etc?

I personally don't see much difference except that sprinters would not want to get too bulky. I think a lot of it comes down to diet and some to drug/dose choices. Drugs that cause excessive bloating, liver congestion, and/or joint pain would not be conducive to sprinting - that being said, winstrol seems to be a popular choice even though it can cause joint pain.

 

[sethroberts]

Why do PH/DS give people strange side effects unlike pharmacutical AAS'?

I personally believe there is a lot of psychosomatic effects being witnessed. Other than that, could you be more specific as to which strange effects are being seen? Lower back pain is seen with DS and AAS, lethargy is seen with both.

 

[sethroberts]

Is there a way to determine what anabolic is best suited for your needs(whatever they might be, BB, Speed, etc) by having blood analized before starting a cycle? Also would you be able to determine what pulsing schedule would work best for you?

I don't believe so, but blood tests may tell you where your SHBG, estradiol, albumin, T3 and test levels are and this may steer you toward the selection of an optimal AAS. Having blood analyzed repeatedl during a pulse would tell you if you need to decrease/increase dose or shorten/extend the period between doses based on the level of suppression thatis seen in the blood tests.

 

[sethroberts]

Since we know that the Q-ratio is almost completely useless in determining how an androgen affects a person, is there any other way to predict how an androgen will work in vivo. Maybe looking at the actual molecular structure itself and determining it's affinity for binding to the AR (since flatter structures generally tend to bind to the AR better).

I wouldn't say that the Q-ratio is useless, it just needs to be considered along with other factors such as metabolism, AR binding, PR binding, GR binding, pharmacokinetics, interaction with different enzymes. All of these are potentially in vitro tests that would predict in vivo acivity.

 

[sethroberts]

I would like your opinion on the idea of recreational androgen use for skeletal expansion seth: In your opinion could an increase in final adult be achieved by treatment with DHT without letrozole. My understanding of such a thing would be that non aramotizing DHT would cause an increase in bone growth while lowered amount of estrogen due to suppression would in term slow down the process of the growth plate closure. I would be very interested to hear your opinion on such an issue. Thankyou in advance for your time.

I think that pharmacological heightening is going on. Doing it as you suggest will result in accelerated linear growth but so would the use of an AI . Probably the best theoretical approach would be to do both to maintain bone density as vertical growth rate is accelerated. It would be a balancing act for sure.

 

[sethroberts]

if someone has to run a delayed post cycle therapy, what is the best way to dose hcg and clomid? and should they be run together or should the clomid be followed after the hcg?

If it is delayed, then I would probably do three moderate doses of HCG at 1500 IU every other day for one week and start clomid at the same time at 50 mg per day with a taper down 10 mg per week until finished. This is what I would do but there are as many ways to dose HCG as there are people and I would have a hard time saying any one is better than another. Opitmally, if one wants to run HCG then it is probably best to run a low dose throughout the cycle.

 

[sethroberts]

I have never used a pro-hormone because of the health problems associated with them. High Cholesterol, high blood pressure, androgen suppression, hepatoxicity, etc.

However, as time goes on and I learn bits more about phs here and there, I am beginning to question the long-term validity of those risks for some products. Suppression can be countered with good pct, cholesterol with other supps and/or diet, etc.

So, my question is, from a medical standpoint, just how detrimental are Phs (assuming proper on-cycle support and pct) on long-term health? If I were to run a couple of cycles over the next few years, would I be increasing my chances of a heart-attack, stroke, kidney failure, cancer, etc?

I am trying to look at the big picture here and do not want to jeopardize my well-being down the road for a few pound of LBM now.
__________________

I think the risks of PHs/DS are more or less on par with those of traditional AAS. But even with traditional AAS there is a range of toxicity from fairly toxic (anadrol) to fairly benign (testosterone). It is hard to say how the use of any drug will effect any one person because even with clinical trials, the risk is spread out over a fairly small, homogenous population -- it is not until a drug is released into a large heterogeneous population that the risks become apparent -- and even then over time. The overall increase in risk may be only 1% for the entire population, but depending on your unique genetic makeup, the risk could be higher or lower. For instance, if you are genetically predisposed to atherosclerosis, PHs/DS or AAS may significantly increase your risk of heart-attack at some point in the future -- the same for cancer, stroke, kidney disease.

 

[sethroberts]

Seth, I dont know if this will be considered a good question or not, it is subjective, but frankly Ive always wanted to ask you. I actually already have your book and its a great great informational guide. Would have been nice to have an index to look like the compound names fast but I cant complain.

But in your opinion, what are the best say..3 (legal) compounds today and why. It could be any reason, lack of sides compared to results, easy PCT, etc. Not only am I curious myself, but I would love to see your input. I realize thats probably not at all what you were looking for but Id love to see an answer.

My other question is pulsing, is it really worth it or not?

Thanks for buying the book. I am happy you enjoyed it. This is totally subjective and is just my opinion, but my idea of the three best "legal" compounds are the 4,9 dione, 1-androsterone and pheraplex. I tend towards safety over "effectiveness" and I don't judge effectivness by how much water it can load in a week. Pheraplex is not necessarily the safest but of the methylated DS's out there it probably delivers the most results with the least risk (depending on dose of course). If I had my choice and everything was legal, then I would not be using anything currently legal.

 

[Trauma1]

I think the risks of PHs/DS are more or less on par with those of traditional AAS. But even with traditional AAS there is a range of toxicity from fairly toxic (anadrol) to fairly benign (testosterone). It is hard to say how the use of any drug will effect any one person because even with clinical trials, the risk is spread out over a fairly small, homogenous population -- it is not until a drug is released into a large heterogeneous population that the risks become apparent -- and even then over time. The overall increase in risk may be only 1% for the entire population, but depending on your unique genetic makeup, the risk could be higher or lower. For instance, if you are genetically predisposed to atherosclerosis, PHs/DS or AAS may significantly increase your risk of heart-attack at some point in the future -- the same for cancer, stroke, kidney disease.

Agreed. Health risk factors or concurrent disease processes can be either previously unknown, or just undisclosed in general. This is potentially a very significant unknown variable that can potentiate factors leading to the development of numerous different pathological states.

Genetic predisposition is the by far the most significant and non-modifiable risk factor that can be associated with the development of many disease states in the long run. There really is no way to clearly quantify the significance of AAS on the development of a given pathophysiology due to the numerous variables that can also be playing an underlying masking role.

 

[sethroberts]

I was wondering about the level of effect of testosterone usage. Would a cycle be more beneficial for a person with lower natural test levels? Would a person with higher natural levels need to use more for the same effect?

There seems to be a lot of broscience in this area, but i've never seen anything with actual research.

NAtural testosterone levels alone are probably meaningless on there own. For example, a man may have natural levels of 300 but is naturally mesomorphic and muscular while another man may have natural levels twice that but be an ectomorphic hard-gainer. There are man factors that determine responsiveness to endogenous hormones. One factor that is vey well documented is the AR concentration in skeletal muscle -- great AR concentration generally means more responsiveness.

 

[Zero V]

Alot of good questions.

 

[sethroberts]

Based off of the ability to manipulate the chemistry of steroids, and the ability to predict conversion of one hormone into another what can we expect in the future. I mean can we say every steroid ever is already drawn into a book, or based off of the understanding of anabolic androgenic steroids can we expect new creations in the future. As in a another way to tickle our androgen receptors maybe through advancements from current steroids into a chemical compound that can work like a steroids, but have less or side effects. Also how are synthetic steroids created. What raws are used and what methods are used to actually chemically bond every lil element into place to create a large amount of the end product. All a steroid is is simply many smaller pieces put together into something bigger.

The steroidal pharmacophore is far from being exhausted but in terms of AAS developed by the pharmaceutical industry I would not expect much. They are, for better or worse, not interested in developing steroidal AAS but rather non-steroidal SARMs. SARMs are the latest way to tickle the androgen receptors with supposedly less sie effects. The variety of structures being created in this space is growing rapidly.

Some steroids are produced by genetically engineered bacteria while some are produced through organic synthesis. the starting material depends on what is being produced and what can be obtained cheaply. There are some published synthetic routes out there and some of the more efficient ones could probably be found in the patent literature. I have a bunch of older synthetic routes but they would probably be laughed at by modern synthetic organic chemists.

 

[sethroberts]

I have one for you Seth regarding PCT and the 'testosterone taper method'.

It has been discussed quite a great deal on other forums such as t-nation, here's a thread for your convenience (although I'm sure you probably know how it works!)

Test Taper Protocol

This method of coming off AAS slowly, as opposed to the sharp halt in androgens following a cycle, is supposedly better for hpta recovery, minimising losses on cycle and reduces the dosages of other PCT agents (e.g. SERMS) during recovery.

Do you feel this is a viable method for PCT recovery?

...and if so could it (and should it) be advised for other compounds such as PH/DS?

I have and continue to be a proponent of tapering as I believe it produces less of a shock to the body and helps the body come back on line. The common misconception out there is that any dose of AAS is "completely" suppressive -- pretty much and on/off switch. In reality it is more of a dimmer switch. Orals can and should be tapered too but it can sometimes be hard to reduce doses (for instance if you have a 10 mg cap and you wanted to reduce the dose to 5 mg).

 

[revamping]

can you become sterile even with proper pct consisting of just a serm. (thats all alot of people can get their hands or just choose not to use hcg)

 

[sethroberts]

if HGH lasts for 1-2 days, and the CJC-1295 version lasts for a week, is there any way to tweak existing compounds to make them last longer? realistically, if we can increase a GH product to last 4x longer, could we do the same to steroids for bi monthly injections?

myostatin blockers - why isn't this being pursued through all science venues with regards to it slowing down the wasting disease of AIDS?

cancer cells grow faster when introduced to GH. is it possible to stop the spread of cancer via blocking/shutting down internal GH? follow up question : can we do that while making a strain of GH that is doseable, that cancer doesn't recognize?

that's all i got right now, sorry if its subpar.

There are steroids currently available that can be administered bi-monthly -- testosterone undecanoate can be administered monthly. Just a matter of attaching a suitable long-chain ester. In this case, CJC-1295 as an analogue of GHRF (a peptide hrmone) that is bound to albumin. The same approach could potentially be followed with other peptide hormones to extend their life.

Myostatin blockers are being pursued for wasting disorders.

Cancer cells grow faster in response to GH largely due to increases in IGF-1. IGF-1 works through the AKT pathway and the AKT pathway is usually is a major driver of tumor growth. IGF-1 receptor blockers as well as AKT inhibitors are being developed as anti-cancer agents. The question is, will these resulting in global cellular starvation and thus it becomes a race of which will die first, cancerous tissue or normal tissue?

Since the pro-cancerous effects of GH are largel mediated through elevations in IGF-1 you would have to produce a GH that does not elevate IGF-1. This is probably not possible for maintaining the growth-promoting effects of GH but may be possible while retaining the "leaning" effect of GH.

 

[sethroberts]

Wouldn't running Clomid 25mgs ED on cycle be a smart way to help prevent the shutdown of natural test production?

It might help with an aromatizing steroid since it would block the estrogenic feedback at the Hypthalamus/pituitary but would not mitigate the androgenic feedback response.

 

[sethroberts]

can you become sterile even with proper pct consisting of just a serm. (thats all alot of people can get their hands or just choose not to use hcg)

Sterility is always a possibility when mucking around with the various hormonal systems - even with proper PCT. That being said, a lot of old-time bodybuilders had children while cycling and went on to have children after cycling so while it may happen, it probably does not happen that often. Obviously, the more you use (dose and type -- i.e. gh, igf-1 etc) for longer lengths of time then the higher the liklihood of permanent problmes developing.

 

[TexasTitan]

I plan to. Anything that is answered in the book I will tell you it is answered in the book. Anything that is not, I will answer here -- sound fair?

Fair indeed.

I was going to offer to be your best friend but I guess its not needed.

Im really digging all these questions and the answers given so far.

I would love to see a dumbed down explanation on tapering. Im gonna look around and read up and try to understand but just throwing it out there. Like, since Ive been researching Epi, maybe you could use that. I am pumping you for info, I wont be bashful.

Thanks for doing this regardless.

 

[sethroberts]

Fair indeed.

I was going to offer to be your best friend but I guess its not needed.

So far the questions have been fairly specific and though many of them are covered, at least in part, in my book, I figured I would go ahead and expound.

 

[reptone]

I don't believe so, but blood tests may tell you where your SHBG, estradiol, albumin, T3 and test levels are and this may steer you toward the selection of an optimal AAS. Having blood analyzed repeatedl during a pulse would tell you if you need to decrease/increase dose or shorten/extend the period between doses based on the level of suppression thatis seen in the blood tests.

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

 

[RoadBlocK]

I dont know if this counts as absurd but-

Why, since the tail end years of the heyday era of Duchaine and Philips, have the generally accepted and/or "published" dosage recommendations of aas steadily and consistently increased over previously considered very effective, safe and accepted amounts, now that we are in the present era of folks like Llewellyn and Rea?

 

[sethroberts]

I dont know if this counts as absurd but-

Why, since the tail end years of the heyday era of Duchaine and Philips, have the generally accepted and/or "published" dosage recommendations of aas steadily and consistently increased over previously considered very effective, safe and accepted amounts, now that we are in the present era of folks like Llewellyn and Rea?

Frankly, because this is what the masses wants to hear. They want to use higher doses and they seek out "gurus" who reinforce this behavior. Few people want to hear that muscle takes time to build. We are in the era of immediate results and more is better. If I take a gram per week of test I will blow up quickly -- so what if most of it is lost afterwards and I have a crapload of side effects -- for those 12 weeks that I am on, I will be swole.

You can see it in the OTC market as well. Superdrol gives immediate results but a crapload of side effects and a lot of it is lost afterwards, but people love it. I don't anticiapte that we will see olympians built with superdrol though.

 

[UKStrength]

I have and continue to be a proponent of tapering as I believe it produces less of a shock to the body and helps the body come back on line. The common misconception out there is that any dose of AAS is "completely" suppressive -- pretty much and on/off switch. In reality it is more of a dimmer switch. Orals can and should be tapered too but it can sometimes be hard to reduce doses (for instance if you have a 10 mg cap and you wanted to reduce the dose to 5 mg).

Thanks very much for answering my question seth, I shall be incorporating this method into my next oral cycle and future injectables.

I know this method isn't well accepted, particularly by other authors in the field such as William Llwellyn but I personally think it makes sense from a physiological standpoint.

Would it work for all orals though?

I'd imagine it would depend much on how strongly the compound binds to the androgen receptor and whether it exerts its anabolic effect through means other than direct stimulation of the receptor.

 

[TexasTitan]

Thanks very much for answering my question seth, I shall be incorporating this method into my next oral cycle and future injectables.

I know this method isn't well accepted, particularly by other authors in the field such as William Llwellyn but I personally think it makes sense from a physiological standpoint.

Would it work for all orals though?

I'd imagine it would depend much on how strongly the compound binds to the androgen receptor and whether it exerts its anabolic effect through means other than direct stimulation of the receptor.

To build on this, would it apply to legal PHs like the designer stuff?

I wont pretend to truely grasp it or understand real gear but Im wondering if there is a way to better take care of myself for my purposes.

P.S. Im dumb as a box of rock, or uneducated at least, so if you could dumb it down for me, I would indefinitely be your best friend.

 

[bigmoe65]

I dont know if this counts as absurd but-

Why, since the tail end years of the heyday era of Duchaine and Philips, have the generally accepted and/or "published" dosage recommendations of aas steadily and consistently increased over previously considered very effective, safe and accepted amounts, now that we are in the present era of folks like Llewellyn and Rea?

I was wondering the same thing and its great question. I havent used in many years but when I did a cycle I would only use 250mgs of enanthate a week and would make killer gains. I see 500mgs is the reccomended dosage now. That might be fine for a bigger guy (maybe 200+) but for most I think its overkill.

I personally believe there is a lot of psychosomatic effects being witnessed. Other than that, could you be more specific as to which strange effects are being seen? Lower back pain is seen with DS and AAS, lethargy is seen with both.

Yes I was referring to lower back pumps and lethargy. I never experienced that from real gear. I have never used a ph/ds. Even though I probably wont ever use again I would love to read the book. Thanks for answering!

 

[OAG]

What about the idea that you need to front load PCT like many believe with AAS? I remember an old Bill Roberts article that mentioned something hyoooge like 1000mg Clomid on day 1 then either 50 or 100mg day after.......

If it is delayed, then I would probably do three moderate doses of HCG at 1500 IU every other day for one week and start clomid at the same time at 50 mg per day with a taper down 10 mg per week until finished. This is what I would do but there are as many ways to dose HCG as there are people and I would have a hard time saying any one is better than another. Opitmally, if one wants to run HCG then it is probably best to run a low dose throughout the cycle.

 

[OAG]

And what about your thoughts on the Oliver Star (early 90's Peak Training mag...) method of bulking on insulin and basically protein drinks all day? Most will think its crazy but......

What about the idea that you need to front load PCT like many believe with AAS? I remember an old Bill Roberts article that mentioned something hyoooge like 1000mg Clomid on day 1 then either 50 or 100mg day after.......

 

[OAG]

What about instead of the pulsing idea with PH/PS going with the 2wk cycle/4week PCT (repeat for a year...) concept that again Bill Roberts discussed (Meso articles and that Greek doctor used to talk about it on misc.fitness.weights)?

And what about your thoughts on the Oliver Star (early 90's Peak Training mag...) method of bulking on insulin and basically protein drinks all day? Most will think its crazy but......

 

[RoadBlocK]

I was wondering the same thing and its great question. I havent used in many years but when I did a cycle I would only use 250mgs of enanthate a week and would make killer gains. I see 500mgs is the reccomended dosage now. That might be fine for a bigger guy (maybe 200+) but for most I think its overkill.

Thanks, and Im glad to see Im not the only one who just cant accept whats being recommended these days.

Frankly, because this is what the masses wants to hear. They want to use higher doses and they seek out "gurus" who reinforce this behavior. Few people want to hear that muscle takes time to build. We are in the era of immediate results and more is better. If I take a gram per week of test I will blow up quickly -- so what if most of it is lost afterwards and I have a crapload of side effects -- for those 12 weeks that I am on, I will be swole.

You can see it in the OTC market as well. Superdrol gives immediate results but a crapload of side effects and a lot of it is lost afterwards, but people love it. I don't anticiapte that we will see olympians built with superdrol though.

Thanks for an honest answer, its pretty much what I figured, but you've laid it out very clearly and I hope it might help someone who isnt willing to just accept the bro science thats out there today. It expounds the fact that more is definitely not always better.

 

[sethroberts]

Thanks very much for answering my question seth, I shall be incorporating this method into my next oral cycle and future injectables.

I know this method isn't well accepted, particularly by other authors in the field such as William Llwellyn but I personally think it makes sense from a physiological standpoint.

Would it work for all orals though?

I'd imagine it would depend much on how strongly the compound binds to the androgen receptor and whether it exerts its anabolic effect through means other than direct stimulation of the receptor.

It should work with any drug provided you know the half-life. If you are taking a drug on a period shorter than the half-life then plasma levels can reach very high levels so it might be advisable to dose less frequently to bring plasma levels down slowly -- the whole idea is not to have levels spike down. The argument that many people make is that injectables, in particular, are self-tapering -- this is true in a sense, but the taper can be very abrupt -- i.e. not necessarily a gentle decline in plasma levels -- again especially so when drugs are injected more frequently than the half-life.