NON METHYLATED PH / DS ?

[eXinCe]

Hi guys :006:
I search for a strong non methylated ph / ds which is easy on the liver .


thanks
eXinCe

 

[UKStrength]

Any of the tren-based PH seem to be popular:

X tren by Competitive Edge Labs is an oral version:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/competitive-edge-labs/122551-introducing-x-tren.html

1-T Tren is a transdermal version by Primordial Performance so it completely bypasses the liver:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/primordial-performance/118038-primordial-performances-1-a.html

Tren-based compound do suffer from prolactin-based sides, therefore a dopamine agonist such as Mucuna Pruriens, high dose vitamin B6, or cabergoline/drostinex would be recommended.

 

[eXinCe]

thanks i think 19-Norandrosta 4,9 diene 3,17 dione would be a good choice .

Finavol , T-Roid or Tren Xtreme which one is better ?

sorry for my bad english

 

[Gym4Life]

you could try xtren from cel competive edge labs tha looks good but i would make sure you have nolva or clomid as a tren compound will shut your natty test down hard.

 

[bigpapa]

trenadrol...but stay away from lot #090207...it is bunk...i know because i used it at 120mgs and saw nothing and i used 90mgs from another batch and it was awesome.

 

[suncloud]

tren
bold
1-ad
4-ad
any of the topical PP lineup


i think they're all non methyl.

 

[eXinCe]

thank u guys

but i search for a supplement shop in the uk or europe where i cant buy prohormones and designersteroids because i live im germany

 

[abuleh]

thx u guys

but i search for a supplement shop in the uk or europe where i cant buy prohormones and designersteroids because i live im germany

pm sent!

~abuleh

 

[ibanezman08]

you could try xtren from cel competive edge labs tha looks good but i would make sure you have nolva or clomid as a tren compound will shut your natty test down hard.

i agree
they shut you down pretty hard so make sure you have an effective pct.

this was my pct

4 weeks

clomid - 50mg
nolvadex - 50mg for 2 weeks and 25mg for 2 weeks
tribex (tribulus) - 1700mg
6oxo - 600mg
creatine monohydrate - 30g for the first week and 20g for the remainding 3 weeks with 2 gallons of water a day no exceptions

clomid brings back my libido FAST. it's strong stuff. and i get puffy nipples on ph's and nolvadex always seems to do the trick.
believe it or not, tribulus doesn't do much if you're trying to use it to make gains, but in a pct, it is AWESOME! great sense of well being, great sex drive, and great workouts! yes even durring pct.


within' a week, my emotions got under control (irritability from the tren went away and the depression from coming off went away)
blood pressure went back to normal
balls came back to normal size
libido came back (yeah you pretty much loose your sex drive on trenadrol depending on how much you take and how long your run it for)
and all this within the first week of pct.

not only will you recover well with this pct, but as long as you keep training and eating like you did when you were on, your workouts will be just as insane only you won't be quite as strong due to the loss of water retention when you come off.

i lost 7lbs when i came off but i still felt very strong and still looked big so overall, gains were kept well.
but you have to eat and train like you're still on.

 

[wildman536]

You like the tribex huh? think itll be good to just take to promote a great nat test level?

 

[gogo]

Im assuming that renal issues on these non methyls are pretty non existent aswell?

 

[AE14]

not to sound off here, but prior to taking any of the advice offered, how old are you and what type of history with weights do you have?

All of the advice is quite solid, and I think there are several to choose from, but just want to make sure we know who we are dealing with.

 

[Demagogue]

Hey i ran superdrol a few weeks back for 3 weeks, my BP went up and my cholesterol was way bad and liver enzymes raised.. Now i know these compounds u guys are using arent 17aa how was the cholesterol and blood pressure though? Did u feel a sense of well being when u ran these tren ph's. I felt it big time with the superdrol. boy i miss it lol

 

[Mars1107]

I think bold gets overlooked
EQ plex, i force Bold

Supposedly it has lower(key word lower) sides, and its a direct precursor to boldenone which has been studied.

You can find great writeups on how boldenone works.

Like the tren compounds, we dont really know exactly how they act in our body.

and Boldenone is a very commonly used injectable.

Bold is a great legal alternative to something"similar to test" Its half as androgenic, half as estrogenic, but the same amount of anabolic.

Im tempted to do a cycle, but the min length is 6 weeks, since it takes a while to build up in your system

 

[kae171]

I think bold gets overlooked
EQ plex, i force Bold

Supposedly it has lower(key word lower) sides, and its a direct precursor to boldenone which has been studied.

You can find great writeups on how boldenone works.

Like the tren compounds, we dont really know exactly how they act in our body.

and Boldenone is a very commonly used injectable.

Bold is a great legal alternative to something"similar to test" Its half as androgenic, half as estrogenic, but the same amount of anabolic.

Im tempted to do a cycle, but the min length is 6 weeks, since it takes a while to build up in your system

Bold is a really good one, except that it gets kind of pricey at the proper dosage/cycle length.

 

[UnrealMachine]

i think bold sounds nice, but only as a high dosed base for a very long cycle (injectable?). And at those lengths (6-8+ weeks), that gets to be quite a few bottles of bold. That has dissuaded me personally, also while i've seen a lot of good feedback, i've seen a much higher than usual proportion of bold users saying they didn't notice much effect or anything at all.

This can probably be traced back to EQ, which I think tends to be a more "hit or miss" type of steroid. I've read people's results from EQ where they bulk up and gain strength (makes you wonder if it's really EQ but they swear by the appetite and vascularity), seen many people report not seeing enough out of EQ for it to be really worthwhile. The first thing everybody says about EQ is "don't expect a lot."

But this is steroids, i want a lot don't we all.

 

[Zero V]

It would be nice though...

Take EQ-Plex by CEL

Week 1: 600 mg (3 caps per day)
Week 2: 600 mg (3 caps per day)
Week 3: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 4: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 5: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 6: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 7: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 8: 800 mg (4 caps per day)

Thats 3.5 bottles, so 4 bottles needing 210 caps for the cycle.

$140 for 8 weeks. And its possible to stack pretty much whatever else you want in there at some point. Interesting idea I was thinking was a kick start with a faster acting PH/DS.

Would it be too much to do a lowder dose beginning methyl, and finish it with a methyl as well?

 

[Mars1107]

It would be nice though...

Take EQ-Plex by CEL

Week 1: 600 mg (3 caps per day)
Week 2: 600 mg (3 caps per day)
Week 3: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 4: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 5: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 6: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 7: 800 mg (4 caps per day)
Week 8: 800 mg (4 caps per day)

Thats 3.5 bottles, so 4 bottles needing 210 caps for the cycle.

$140 for 8 weeks. And its possible to stack pretty much whatever else you want in there at some point. Interesting idea I was thinking was a kick start with a faster acting PH/DS.

Would it be too much to do a lowder dose beginning methyl, and finish it with a methyl as well?

its not that expensive, how much would the injectable version cost?

I think id kick start with a epithio compound

 

[isoc]

its not that expensive, how much would the injectable version cost?

I think id kick start with a epithio compound

Most would run real EQ for at least 12 weeks, front loading 600-800 the first two weeks, then dropping back to 400-500 for the next 10 or so. Many UG EQ's are at least 200 mgs and seen some 300 mgs per ml. Taking middle ground assume 250mgs per ml at 10 ml per bottle, that would be 3 ml's the first two weeks and 2 mls then next 10, so a total of 26, looking at 3 bottles, probably run you about 150-200, but shipping can get expensive 30-50, so total looking at 175-250 for 14 (we only said 12 beginning but I would use up the entire third bottle) weeks of EQ dosed correctly. Kickstart with epi, probably run 4-6 weeks, at 40mgs per day, so almost 2 bottles, and then maybe close with a different ds for 4 weeks or so, assume 1 more bottle, adds up to probably around 100 for the orals, so a nice 14 week cycle for about 275-350, not including pct.

 

[EasyEJL]

its not that expensive, how much would the injectable version cost?

I think id kick start with a epithio compound

depending on where you buy it, it might be significantly less because its not like you need nearly that much of injectible to match the effect. thats probably not even the equivalent of 200-300mg/week of injected. Actual conversion rates are hard to pin down, as the prohormones have few to no studies done

 

[Mars1107]

Most would run real EQ for at least 12 weeks, front loading 600-800 the first two weeks, then dropping back to 400-500 for the next 10 or so. Many UG EQ's are at least 200 mgs and seen some 300 mgs per ml. Taking middle ground assume 250mgs per ml at 10 ml per bottle, that would be 3 ml's the first two weeks and 2 mls then next 10, so a total of 26, looking at 3 bottles, probably run you about 150-200, but shipping can get expensive 30-50, so total looking at 175-250 for 14 (we only said 12 beginning but I would use up the entire third bottle) weeks of EQ dosed correctly. Kickstart with epi, probably run 4-6 weeks, at 40mgs per day, so almost 2 bottles, and then maybe close with a different ds for 4 weeks or so, assume 1 more bottle, adds up to probably around 100 for the orals, so a nice 14 week cycle for about 275-350, not including pct.

yeah but you probally need HCG for that(2orals and bold?)

id stick to one oral.

 

[Mars1107]

Big Cat, Some theoretical conversion rates.

"Prohormone conclusions: 1,4-andro, as a highly oral active precursor to boldenone, sees its use in many different ways. In terms of real bulking mass it can't hold a candle to testosterone precursors, but its obviously a great way of adding small amounts of quality mass that are easily maintained. Whilst it is low in estrogen aromatisation, it does not exclude the process entirely, also because it is a dione version. The amount of estrogen is considerably lower than that of testosterone precursors which avoids the massive water retention and decreases the odds of estrogen-related side-effects, but still has some estrogenic conversion which makes it visually more gratifying than DHT derivatives like 5AA and 1AD. I think 1,4-andro, if obtained at a decent price, is of most use as a lean mass agent in a stack with a testosterone precursor to illicit very high anabolic reactions and would make up for its lack of androgenic aggresiveness. Or by itself for endurance athletes and multi-sport athletes. In a stack with a nandrolone-precursor it would be a very low androgenic stack, Ideal for those looking for a stack that can still offer quality gains without the addition of androgen-related side-effects like prostate hypertrophy or hair loss. 1,4-andro is in my opinion a very valuable product if it can be obtained from a good source at a good price. The lean mass gain and low side-effect rate, combined with high oral efficacy make this one of the best products to consider in oral doses.

Dosage: 1,4-andro and likewise boldenone posses a double bond between the first and second carbon atom, which can be seen in the structural diagram above. This gives it a natural ability to bypass the liver at a much higher rate than steroid-hormones that do not posses this double bond. Often times steroids are 17-alpha alkalated to make up for low oral efficacy, but that increases the chance of hepa-toxicity. The double bond doesn't. That means dosage between 150 and 300 mg daily are often enough to illicit dramatic results when stacked with another prohormone. For use by itself doses of 500-800 mg should be considered, but this is a very expensive affair. To maintain levels, it should be taken in 3-4 doses per day. There is some use for it transdermally, but the 1-double bond makes it a better candidate for oral delivery."

 

[isoc]

probably wouldnt be a bad idea to use hcg for a longer cycle like that, whether one oral or not. To be honest, I would also just use one oral, but would run something else as EQ alone, is just ok, to a certain extent you may start to get a little disappointed in the gains after dropping the oral. If it were me, and I was going to go the illegal route I would run test the entire time at about 500 mgs per week. Gains still may slow down after epi is dropped, but seriously, after 14 weeks of test + Eq, and epi weeks 1-6, a big difference should be seen, especially if you are not currently on and just running into this.

People underestimate the power of test, this is not just something that takes away lethargy/gives libido, this is arguably the best steroid around. If it was legal, it would probably be the only hormone I would take, but I am old and risk averse now.

 

[Mars1107]

Regular Boldenone is primarily used for cutting, but its also very good for bulking.

Some legal things to stack would Furazadrol for Cutting, but that would make it hell of an expensive stack.

Since Bold/Furz are unmethalated, you could add something methalated, i dont know whats best.

I know that people stack Winny and EQ in real cycles.

 

[Mars1107]

probably wouldnt be a bad idea to use hcg for a longer cycle like that, whether one oral or not. To be honest, I would also just use one oral, but would run something else as EQ alone, is just ok, to a certain extent you may start to get a little disappointed in the gains after dropping the oral. If it were me, and I was going to go the illegal route I would run test the entire time at about 500 mgs per week. Gains still may slow down after epi is dropped, but seriously, after 14 weeks of test + Eq, and epi weeks 1-6, a big difference should be seen, especially if you are not currently on and just running into this.

There would be major gains there for a novice user. an understatement there.

I have nowhere to hide needles, and i wouldnt want to be on something that long.

 

[Demagogue]

How does Bold affect cholesterol and blood pressure, does anyone know?

 

[Mars1107]

How does Bold affect cholesterol and blood pressure, does anyone know?

should affect both negatively, but not to the degree as other stuff, im guessing

 

[Zero V]

Dont forget the new AMS UTT 4-Ad, 1-Andro, LiquiDrone and their encapsulated counterparts.

For about 140 bucks you can get 2 bottles of UTT 4AD and 2 bottles of UTT1-Andro and 2 bottles of Arom-x(an AI). Which should be good for I think a 6 week run.

 

[isoc]

There would be major gains there for a novice user. an understatement there.

I have nowhere to hide needles, and i wouldnt want to be on something that long.

I understand, I am no longer willing to risk going the illegal route, but have in the past and just want to help when possible. Bold+Hdrol has been a pretty popular stack and fairly easy on the sides, go about 5 weeks of the Hdrol, and 8 weeks of Bold, usingthe last 3 to taper down a little (or at least natural taper dropping down to one compound). I see no need for on cycle ancillaries outside of maybe cycle support but no ai's etc., sides probably fairly low, pct probably pretty easy, would say use a serm since on for 8 weeks. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Mars1107]

I understand, I am no longer willing to risk going the illegal route, but have in the past and just want to help when possible. Bold+Hdrol has been a pretty popular stack and fairly easy on the sides, go about 5 weeks of the Hdrol, and 8 weeks of Bold, usingthe last 3 to taper down a little (or at least natural taper dropping down to one compound). I see no need for on cycle ancillaries outside of maybe cycle support but no ai's etc., sides probably fairly low, pct probably pretty easy, would say use a serm since on for 8 weeks. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

ive seen people do crazier cycles than 14 weeks test/eq. Thats not a dangerous cycle.

for interest, what have you done in the past, and how would you compare them to what your doing now

 

[Gator 87]

should affect both negatively, but not to the degree as other stuff, im guessing

Bold/EQ is actually the hardest thing on BP short of EPO, since it causes your body to create and excess of RBCs. This is also where the endurance and vascularity increases come from.

 

[Mars1107]

Bold/EQ is actually the hardest thing on BP short of EPO, since it causes your body to create and excess of RBCs. This is also where the endurance and vascularity increases come from.

thanks for the info.

I know about bold and its effects on rbcs

i didnt realize that would translate into higher bp.

can u show me evidence to where u got your answer?

i have heard people complain about bp particualry on bold, but then agian i havent heard many logs, and logs arent facts.

Also, though all steriod raise bp no, but esp bold? i think all AAS raise RBC to some degree to, no?

 

[Gator 87]

Also, though all steriod raise bp no, but esp bold? i think all AAS raise RBC to some degree to, no?

All AAS increase Erythropoiesis to a degree, Boldenone just does it more than most. That extra RBCs raise BP is common knowledge, but I'll try to dig up some supports for you.

 

[isoc]

ive seen people do crazier cycles than 14 weeks test/eq. Thats not a dangerous cycle.

for interest, what have you done in the past, and how would you compare them to what your doing now

In the past I have both done the usual cycles on, then off, and also blast and cruise for a couple years. During these times I used almost all the normal compounds people see, tren, test, winny, dbol, anadrol, eq, deca, masteron, primobolan, no anavar or halotestin, though. Most recently I have used sd, epi, pp's 1-t, s-4, igf, pegmgf, and other otc's over the past few years. I am getting too old to risk too much, I dont want to permanently go no a blast and cruise and at my age, too long, or harsh of a cycle may force my hand a little. The ph's are nice, since legal, but the cycles are a little too short to maintain the gains well for me. Part of the nice thing about the longer cycles, or blast and cruise was that after 5-6 weeks of stacking many times my weight gain stopped or slowed and there was a lull where I just maintained the weight for a period fo time and tried to harden up at that weight. So when I came off, or dropped down, I didnt have as much water and fat to lose immediately and so less was lost. The ph equivalent is the 11oxo bridge, which i believe could basically be done with any type of weak non methyl, it is almost like tapering down, you go from superdrol, to a nonmethyl and you will drop size, strength and water, but not as much as being off completely, then you go into pct at a little better state than just falling off the superdrol/phera, etc. cliff.

 

[EasyEJL]

Part of the nice thing about the longer cycles, or blast and cruise was that after 5-6 weeks of stacking many times my weight gain stopped or slowed and there was a lull where I just maintained the weight for a period fo time and tried to harden up at that weight. So when I came off, or dropped down, I didnt have as much water and fat to lose immediately and so less was lost.

Sort of like Author L Rea's protocol of a blast with a highly androgenic compound followed by a cruise on highly anabolic compounds to solidify the gains.

 

[Mars1107]

Sort of like Author L Rea's protocol of a blast with a highly androgenic compound followed by a cruise on highly anabolic compounds to solidify the gains.

Did u hear about his new pornstar supplement?

lol

 

[EasyEJL]

probably works pretty well

 

[Mars1107]

probably works pretty well

yeah if you look at the ingredient profile, its actually one of the best ahem "Sex" centered supps ive seen. Who knows if he added some liquid cialis to some lots. haha