Surefire26 H-drol Plan

[SureFire26]

Hello,
I am going to start a 5 week h-drol cycle in about 2 weeks. This is my first cycle. I’m 6’3 and weigh 197, hope to be 195 by start. Also, I hope to be around 205 by the end of the cycle. It will be a further cutting cycle/Lean mass gain. I am working on getting starting bf% within the next 2 weeks. This is my plan so far. Let me know what you think.

Here’s what I have (may have missed something):
Fish Oil
BCAA’s
Multi
Glucosamine/chondroitin
2 jars Cycle Support
NP Divanex
ZMA
I3C
50g NP Horny Goat Weed
Post Cycle Support
Lean Xtreme
6-OXO
2 bottles H-drol
NP Creatine Monohydrate
Whey

Here’s my plan so far:

Throughout:
Fish Oil
BCAA’s
Multivitamin
Gluc/Chon
Whey of course

2 weeks Cycle Support preload: 1 scoop/day

Cycle (5 weeks):
H-drol: 50/50/75/75/75
50 – 2 x 12pm
75 – 2 x 12pm/1 x 6pm
Cycle Support: 2/day: 7am/11pm

PCT:
PCS, I3C, ZMA, Cycle Support, Creatine mono, 6-oxo, Lean Xtreme

Weeks 1-4: PCS/I3C/ZMA/Cycle Support.
PCS: 2 morning, 2 evening
I3C – 200mg cap: 3/2/2/2 – 2/1 morning, 1 evening.
ZMA: 3 before bed
Cycle Support 1 scoop

Weeks 3-6: Lean Xtreme: 3/day
Weeks 4-7: 6-oxo: 4/2/2/1

Questions:
Should I add the divanex/horny goat weed in weeks 4-7?
I bought divanex/horny goat weed as substitutes for Activate Xteme, which is suggested on otcpct.com.
Any other suggestions?

I can post up my current diet as well, but it is for a cut during my DCP/LR/LX run. I’ll probably just use it and add more protein. Link to this run is http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/123510-my-dcp-lr.html

Thanks,
Surefire

 

[SureFire26]

anyone?

 

[SureFire26]

haha, bump at 10pm did no good. I'll try again.

 

[mooch2321]

wow....this is one heck of an hdrol cycle here....i think youve covered every imaginable base bro....

 

[SureFire26]

wow....this is one heck of an hdrol cycle here....i think youve covered every imaginable base bro....

Haha I try. Well, I researched. I guess it is pretty thorough...

 

[GMG760]

Looking good bro, eat up and move that weight!

 

[GymRat7197]

I thought I read somewhere that H-DROL should be taken no more than 40mg per day?

 

[mooch2321]

^^^^^your probably thinking of mdrol....ive seen hdrol dosed up to 200mgs....

 

[SureFire26]

Thanks guys,
Any word on adding the divanex/horny goat weed in weeks 4-7?

 

[mooch2321]

you could add it in if you want but i dont think you really will NEED all this....

 

[GMG760]

Eh, it's his first cycle, let him realize what he NEEDS and doesn't need by doing it completely covered the first time. We all were there at one point in time.

But Mooch is right, you are teetering on overkill... not that you can really be too safe, but I wouldn't worry too much about this cycle the way you have it planned out.

 

[mooch2321]

id run it just for shits in giggles...i love iccarin when im natty....bcs has a preworkout thats iccarin, creatine, beta alanine, citruline malate, n-acytal l-tyrosine, caffeine, synephrine and geranium.....it makes me horny as f#ck....

 

[SureFire26]

Alright thanks again! I'll run it since I already have it.
Can't wait to start!

 

[buster0371]

good luck

 

[SureFire26]

Thanks!

How much cardio is too much on cycle?

Before I decided to start the cycle this summer, I was planning on swimming 5 days/week, biking or running everyday, and a lot of tennis.
Now, I am thinking about swimming 3 days/week, biking occasionally to the gym which is about a mile away, and tennis 3 or 4 days/week.
Is this too much?

 

[buster0371]

Thanks!

How much cardio is too much on cycle?

Before I decided to start the cycle this summer, I was planning on swimming 5 days/week, biking or running everyday, and a lot of tennis.
Now, I am thinking about swimming 3 days/week, biking occasionally to the gym which is about a mile away, and tennis 3 or 4 days/week.
Is this too much?

it depends if your looking to bulk or to cut? you gotta remember to eat a lot,and you do allthat you gotta eat even more!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[SureFire26]

Yeah, I know I'm going to have to eat a lot. Its for a cut though. I know I have to eat clean, but a lot.
It would be fairly easy to take some of that out. I can easily drive to the gym, or swim less.

I mean, I swim pretty hard for 1 hour to 1.5 hours on those days.
Same with tennis.
Is there an ideal number of hours per week to shoot for?
I'm guessing it will be different for each person. Maybe I'll just have to figure it out based on how I feel.

What about during pct?

 

[mooch2321]

when i bulk i do ten minutes of hiit post workout......just to keep my heart healthy so im not puking every leg day.....on a cut i will continue with my short hiit session post workout but add in 30-45min of fasted low intensity cardio first thing in the morning....i sip on x-tend and try to keep my heart rate below 130.....

 

[mooch2321]

Yeah, I know I'm going to have to eat a lot. Its for a cut though. I know I have to eat clean, but a lot.
It would be fairly easy to take some of that out. I can easily drive to the gym, or swim less.

I mean, I swim pretty hard for 1 hour to 1.5 hours on those days.
Same with tennis.
Is there an ideal number of hours per week to shoot for?
I'm guessing it will be different for each person. Maybe I'll just have to figure it out based on how I feel.

What about during pct?

when cutting i try and burn an extra 500-600 calories a day with cardio....and i usually stay about 500 cals below bmr....when you calculated your bmr did the site ask you about your activity levels....i cant beleive your at 2000 doing an hour and a half of cardio a day....

 

[buster0371]

sounds like your using hdrol for an athletic boost. just do whatever you wanna perform better in. you swim that much on hdrol and you'll probably end up a pretty strong swimmer. if lifting weights is your priority than maybe focus more on that!

 

[buster0371]

lol on hdrol just try to eat as much as you can, especially with you routine. eat 5k calories a day if you can. LOL. definately dont skimp on the protein

 

[mooch2321]

yeah with that much cardio you probably can eat whatever you want....

 

[SureFire26]

when cutting i try and burn an extra 500-600 calories a day with cardio....and i usually stay about 500 cals below bmr....when you calculated your bmr did the site ask you about your activity levels....i cant beleive your at 2000 doing an hour and a half of cardio a day....

Where'd you get 2000 from?
No I am eating about 2700-2800 calories now for my cut with dcp/lr/lx.

haha I would feel like crap eating 2000/day.

I'll probably bump up my calories to about 3500-4000 for hdrol if I do as much cardio as I want to.

I have seen sites predict my BMR at about 2700 being lightly active and up to 4000 for highly active.

I guess its not an all out cut. I don't want to lose weight on cycle... lol.

I'm 196 now, I want to be about 205, but with a little less bf.

 

[SureFire26]

sounds like your using hdrol for an athletic boost. just do whatever you wanna perform better in. you swim that much on hdrol and you'll probably end up a pretty strong swimmer. if lifting weights is your priority than maybe focus more on that!

Good advice!

When I think about it, I don't swim competitively anymore so there is really no reason to use it to get better in that.

I just play tennis for fun, there's talk of doing a tourney, but it's not serious.

I mostly want to look more muscular/ripped basically and get stronger in lifting. I figured hdrol would be a good choice for that from what I have read.

I also have a bottle of trenadrol which I've read is good for strength, but I don't really want to use that for my first cycle anymore after reading about it's harshness.

 

[SureFire26]

I'll definitely eat a lot. Hopefully try and get 4000+ after hearing what you guys have said. I just stocked up on the whey and I love meat so I'm pretty set for getting the protein I need.

Thanks

 

[TravisG]

If youre cutting with a prohormone and doing that extensive of cardio PLUS eating clean i would still say only eat 2700-2800 a day. this will get you cut up and the h-drol will keep the lean mass. Im a certified personal trainer and weight loss is basically my job description these days. there is no way you should be eating 5k while cutting. youd just maintain your bf% and gain some mass. 2700-3000 daily. cardio 5-6 days a week. supersets for your workouts and eat slow digesting carbs, and lots of protein.

 

[mooch2321]

Where'd you get 2000 from?
No I am eating about 2700-2800 calories now for my cut with dcp/lr/lx.

haha I would feel like crap eating 2000/day.

I'll probably bump up my calories to about 3500-4000 for hdrol if I do as much cardio as I want to.

I have seen sites predict my BMR at about 2700 being lightly active and up to 4000 for highly active.

I guess its not an all out cut. I don't want to lose weight on cycle... lol.

I'm 196 now, I want to be about 205, but with a little less bf.

sorry i was jumping back and forth between this thread and another guy running a recomp/cut i guess i got confused about who was doing what....lol....why not try carb cycling if you want to lean bulk......

 

[SureFire26]

Oh ok I got ya.

Umm, I could give carb cycling a shot, but there's a lot of days where I'm required to eat at work and the best I can do is a sandwich there. I try and bring my own food but we don't have a fridge or a microwave. Can't give definite days because I lifeguard different days when filling in for people.
I would probably need help planning it out also.

 

[polo]

75-100 mg of h-drol is good imo

 

[marzanaut]

^^^^^your probably thinking of mdrol....ive seen hdrol dosed up to 200mgs....

200mg of mdrol? Are you kdding? People would go that high? Holy ****!
I did a cycle of mdrol in 10, 20, 20, 30mg. I gained 22 lbs off of it.

 

[marzanaut]

Oh ok I got ya.

Umm, I could give carb cycling a shot, but there's a lot of days where I'm required to eat at work and the best I can do is a sandwich there. I try and bring my own food but we don't have a fridge or a microwave. Can't give definite days because I lifeguard different days when filling in for people.
I would probably need help planning it out also.

I can help you plan out a UD2 diet.

 

[mooch2321]

^^^^^your probably thinking of mdrol....ive seen hdrol dosed up to 200mgs....

200mg of mdrol? Are you kdding? People would go that high? Holy ****!
I did a cycle of mdrol in 10, 20, 20, 30mg. I gained 22 lbs off of it.

please reread my post closely....your putting words into my mouth...

 

[sumbum801]

did you get your pct set up from otcpct.com?

 

[SureFire26]

did you get your pct set up from otcpct.com?

Actually, I found that later and changed some of my stuff from the first plan (I mentioned otcpct.com in the first post btw). I liked it though, so I used it and some of dmang's ideas on http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/96169-otc-pct-guide.html which is basically the same thing.

Seems like most people use a similar set up anyways though as I saw when I was researching other people's set ups/plans.

I actually planned an otc pct for trenadrol. Bought it and the pct, but then backed out on the trenadrol.

 

[SureFire26]

I can help you plan out a UD2 diet.

I thought I read somewhere that it was a little out of date. I might be wrong.

You've caught my interest however. What are the advantages to UD2?

 

[MrBigPR]

200mg of mdrol? Are you kdding? People would go that high? Holy ****!
I did a cycle of mdrol in 10, 20, 20, 30mg. I gained 22 lbs off of it.

Learn how to read

 

[LAGear]

OP - I see 6-oxo in your PCT but no SERM. Without others jumping in to support doing it one way or another, I'd like to hear from OP in his words why he decided against a SERM and why he chose to use 6-oxo. Try not to say "because h-drol is mild enough that I don't need a SERM" because that doesn't take into account any of the pros or cons of using SERM vs OTC.

If youre cutting with a prohormone and doing that extensive of cardio PLUS eating clean i would still say only eat 2700-2800 a day. this will get you cut up and the h-drol will keep the lean mass. Im a certified personal trainer and weight loss is basically my job description these days. there is no way you should be eating 5k while cutting. youd just maintain your bf% and gain some mass. 2700-3000 daily. cardio 5-6 days a week. supersets for your workouts and eat slow digesting carbs, and lots of protein.

I think this is good advice. Although I think you'd gain some fat eating 5K/day with something as mild as h-drol.

A cut doesn't mean you're going to lose muscle. As long as you eat a reasonable amount of calories you aren't going to lose mass. That's one of the benefits of a cycle is you can be in a calorie deficit and maintain muscle while cutting. But within reason.

I added about 500 cal/day to my diet on my cycle but in the last 10 days I'm going to cut them back out to maximize cut potential.

 

[SureFire26]

OP - I see 6-oxo in your PCT but no SERM. Without others jumping in to support doing it one way or another, I'd like to hear from OP in his words why he decided against a SERM and why he chose to use 6-oxo. Try not to say "because h-drol is mild enough that I don't need a SERM" because that doesn't take into account any of the pros or cons of using SERM vs OTC.


I think this is good advice. Although I think you'd gain some fat eating 5K/day with something as mild as h-drol.

A cut doesn't mean you're going to lose muscle. As long as you eat a reasonable amount of calories you aren't going to lose mass. That's one of the benefits of a cycle is you can be in a calorie deficit and maintain muscle while cutting. But within reason.

I added about 500 cal/day to my diet on my cycle but in the last 10 days I'm going to cut them back out to maximize cut potential.

Well, to answer your first question... Firstly, I didn't choose a serm because the research I did showed a lot of people doing fine without it according to bloodwork. Not many had bloodwork, so I am still fairly skeptical. However, I'm confident enough in my decision and research without having to deal with the legality issues of serms.

Secondly, I didn't want to go through the hassle of getting one. I am not too trustworthy of websites and I am not about to ask for one that is reliable on here because I will be shunned. Next, I have a friend that said he could get me one, but also told me I wouldn't need one for trenadrol, which I was planning on doing originally. I think that would be a mistake and I don't think he would even bother trying to get me one for hdrol.

So I chose to go with hdrol/otc pct.
As for 6-oxo, why not? You were going to use it/will use it. I can't even keep up with your ever changing pct. I'd like to actually know what it is exactly that you're running for pct.

So, first of all, from reading your posts before and your threads, you were very unsure of pct anyways. And, in your post, you admit that hdrol is mild, so don't dismiss the "oh its mild enough to not need a serm," even though my reasoning wasn't based on that. It doesn't even sound like the cycle is going so well for you so I'm not exactly sure how sound your advice is.

Though, I was thinking of sticking to my original plan and work off my own diet adding mostly protein too it to get more calories while hopefully staying around 3400. Now, my diet for maintenance is about 2800. I plan to make changes as I see fit.

Even though it sounded like you were attacking me, thanks for your input and thanks for your interest.

Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. It wasn't my intention, that's simply my response to your post.

Thanks,
Surefire

 

[FootballFanat]

THAT ACTUALLY SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT CYCLE!
I am about to start one myself.
Cycle
H-drol 60/60/90/90
and then a basic pct
Primordial TRS

And or course lots and lots of protein multi v's

Is cycle support really needed?

 

[SureFire26]

THAT ACTUALLY SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT CYCLE!
I am about to start one myself.
Cycle
H-drol 60/60/90/90
and then a basic pct
Primordial TRS

And or course lots and lots of protein multi v's

Is cycle support really needed?

60/60/90/90? that's weird... you sure you're talking about h-drol? It's dosed by 25mg increments.

Cycle support is basically recommended by everyone. For me, I'm just worried about the rise in blood pressure and liver support. I would say use it without a doubt.

Sounds like you need more research... and I need more sleep... haha.

 

[FootballFanat]

60/60/90/90? that's weird... you sure you're talking about h-drol? It's dosed by 25mg increments.

Cycle support is basically recommended by everyone. For me, I'm just worried about the rise in blood pressure and liver support. I would say use it without a doubt.

Sounds like you need more research... and I need more sleep... haha.

Sorry bro ive been up for ore 24's
i meant to putt 50 50 75 75

 

[LAGear]

Well, to answer your first question... Firstly, I didn't choose a serm because the research I did showed a lot of people doing fine without it according to bloodwork. Not many had bloodwork, so I am still fairly skeptical. However, I'm confident enough in my decision and research without having to deal with the legality issues of serms.

Secondly, I didn't want to go through the hassle of getting one. I am not too trustworthy of websites and I am not about to ask for one that is reliable on here because I will be shunned. Next, I have a friend that said he could get me one, but also told me I wouldn't need one for trenadrol, which I was planning on doing originally. I think that would be a mistake and I don't think he would even bother trying to get me one for hdrol.

So I chose to go with hdrol/otc pct.
As for 6-oxo, why not? You were going to use it/will use it. I can't even keep up with your ever changing pct. I'd like to actually know what it is exactly that you're running for pct.

So, first of all, from reading your posts before and your threads, you were very unsure of pct anyways. And, in your post, you admit that hdrol is mild, so don't dismiss the "oh its mild enough to not need a serm," even though my reasoning wasn't based on that. It doesn't even sound like the cycle is going so well for you so I'm not exactly sure how sound your advice is.

Though, I was thinking of sticking to my original plan and work off my own diet adding mostly protein too it to get more calories while hopefully staying around 3400. Now, my diet for maintenance is about 2800. I plan to make changes as I see fit.

Even though it sounded like you were attacking me, thanks for your input and thanks for your interest.

Sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you. It wasn't my intention, that's simply my response to your post.

Thanks,
Surefire

Holy Moly! You sure are defensive. Where on earth did you get the idea that I was attacking you? I just asked you a question. There was no attack -- intended, implied or otherwise.

I asked the question to see if you had any specific reasons for going OTC instead of using a SERM. It sounds like your main reason is that OTC is more convenient, not that OTC is better.

Yes, h-drol is mild but that has nothing to do with whether or not you need a SERM and IMO it's not a good reason not to use a SERM. I realized very early on in my research that not using a SERM is a mistake for any PH/AAS/DS. I could see why someone would want to avoid Nolva or especially Clomid because of their sides, but I don't know why someone would choose not to use Torem. I would never do any kind of cycle without Torem. I made that decision early on and it's not something I've wavered on. There is nothing illegal about buying products from research chem companies and it's very easy to find trustworthy ones. That should never be an excuse not to use a SERM. The only reason not to use a SERM are specific advantages to OTC over a SERM, and particularly over Torem which is very effective, fast and side effect free. (unless you live somewhere it's impossible to get a SERM)

With all the talk about OTC PCT on this site and others I've yet to be convinced that there are any advantages to going that route over using Torem. The main benefit is supplement company profits.

There are a lot of people who seem to be doing fine without a SERM but that doesn't mean skipping a SERM is the right decision. On this site the prevailing attitude is you don't have to use a SERM because "you can get away without one," and to top it off a lot of people say to have one on hand anyway "just in case." That's good advice to have one on hand no matter what but I don't understand the logic of having one and not using it. This site is heavily influenced by supplement company reps, if you go to some other sites with less outside influence the users will paint a very different picture about OTC vs SERM. It's good to get all sides when making an important decision like this.

And I think there are a lot of people who just repeat the things they've heard without truly understanding how things work. There are some people on this site who really know there stuff but there are a lot of people who will give you an opinion but when you ask them to back it up, they can't. I figured this out over time and decided that every decision I make has to be my own decision, I can't just take someone's advice because they have a lot of posts. If I understand how things work I can make my own educated decision. And I'm always trying to learn more so I can keep making good decisions so I remain open minded about everything. That's actually one of the main reasons I asked, to see if you had thought this through and found a good reason for skipping the SERM. I'd love to be convinced that OTC is as good as or better than Torem; I keep turning rocks but coming up empty.

Why not 6-oxo? For one it causes hair loss in people who are prone to MPB. For another it increases the risk of having rebound gyno. The only thing I've wavered about is whether or not I would use an AI in addition to Torem in my PCT. I have ultimately decided not to because I don't see what the point of running an AI for PCT is if you're using a SERM and test booster. I actually bought 6-oxo and returned it because of all the potential sides and countless people (mostly on other sites) who have used it and say it is worthless anyway. If I were to use an AI I'd use Formex.

So my PCT is Torem, Diesel Test Hardcore, Lean Xtreme and PCS. And my cycle is going just fine thank you very much.

I hope you don't interpret this as another attack. This is an online forum, the whole point is for people to talk about things.

 

[SureFire26]

Got ya, I'm sorry I must be mistaken. I thought I read you were unhappy with your progress and people were saying that they thought you needed to bump up the caloric intake.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm still skeptical as to sites that are reputable. I already have everything I needed for my plan, so what would you suggest I do?

Thanks for the long detailed response.

 

[LAGear]

Got ya, I'm sorry I must be mistaken. I thought I read you were unhappy with your progress and people were saying that they thought you needed to bump up the caloric intake.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm still skeptical as to sites that are reputable. I already have everything I needed for my plan, so what would you suggest I do?

Thanks for the long detailed response.

There was a point I was frustrated with my progress but it's working out. My gains didn't start kicking in until week four whereas most people get them week three. I posted progress pics in my log today.

There are other sites where it's not so taboo to talk about research chem suppliers. And the reputable ones have lots of satisfied, repeat customers. So unless they decide they are going to screw you over you can trust them. If you like I'll send you my source in a PM.

As for what I suggest you do... I personally think it's best to use a SERM and I prefer Formex over 6-oxo. But as you know, you probably will be OK with your plan. But some people do get shut down pretty hard from h-drol so if you don't use a SERM there are no guarantees.

If you think it's better to use a SERM don't let sourcing insecurity be the thing that keeps you from doing PCT right. Skip the SERM only because you think OTC is the best option not because you feel it's your only option. And I'd research Formex a little more and see if you think that might be better than 6-oxo. If you haven't opened the oxo you might be able to return or exchange it.

 

[SureFire26]

There was a point I was frustrated with my progress but it's working out. My gains didn't start kicking in until week four whereas most people get them week three. I posted progress pics in my log today.

There are other sites where it's not so taboo to talk about research chem suppliers. And the reputable ones have lots of satisfied, repeat customers. So unless they decide they are going to screw you over you can trust them. If you like I'll send you my source in a PM.

As for what I suggest you do... I personally think it's best to use a SERM and I prefer Formex over 6-oxo. But as you know, you probably will be OK with your plan. But some people do get shut down pretty hard from h-drol so if you don't use a SERM there are no guarantees.

If you think it's better to use a SERM don't let sourcing insecurity be the thing that keeps you from doing PCT right. Skip the SERM only because you think OTC is the best option not because you feel it's your only option. And I'd research Formex a little more and see if you think that might be better than 6-oxo. If you haven't opened the oxo you might be able to return or exchange it.

I would love for a pm man!
I'll look into Formex also.