M1T for first PH cycle
- 01-14-2004, 05:09 AM
M1T for first PH cycle
I'm considering using M1T at a moderately low dose of 10mg per day at split doses for two weeks as my first PH cycle. I've read that some people have posted that M1T is not good for a beginner to PH's but I think at the low dose it will be manageable.
Now let me get to the reason I chose M1T. I wanted to use PH that was effective but not too androgenic, esp regarding to hair loss (the most common side effect i've read about was lethargy for M1T). I originally considered Nordiol but I'm taking finasteride and heard that it would compromise the effectiveness this PH. Next, I considered transdermal 1-test with 4AD since most people who tried nordiol w/ 4AD and 1-test w/ 4AD favored the latter. I have been reading that M1T is more anabolic than 1-test and less androgenic.
I was also considering using 4AD w/ M1T to combat lethargy but I am currently undecided for 3 reasons. 1)not sure of the effectiveness of 4AD for only two weeks and i've read about frontloading but not sure if i want to do this 2) not sure if i want to stack so many PHs for my first cylce. 3) including 4AD would increase the possibility for hair loss.
I have been bodybuilding for 4-5 years and have worked from 160 - 223 w/ 12-14% bf w/ only the use of protein daily and creatine maybe 5 times total. The rest was just hard work.
Let me know if you think this would be ok for a 1st cycle, your opinion on stacking w/ 4AD, and any experiences or reads from other posts regarding hair loss and M1T.
- 01-14-2004, 10:37 AM
I would suggest starting with a transdermal 1-test/4AD stack. You will gain great with that. M1t is powerful & has strong side effects. I think everyone should get some 1-test experience under their belts before jumping into M1t. 1-test affects us all differently. M1t makes many guys feel like crap, lose appetite, get the flu, etc. I think you'll find the gains from your 1st transdermal cycle in 4 weeks to be on par with what users are reporting with M1t in 2-3 weeks.
If you must start with M1t, stay at 10mg & definitely add some 4ad. The lethargy & libido loss are significant, your body will thank you.
I doubt a small amount of 4AD will cause hair loss. I have never lost any hair from any PHs, but I am not MPB prone. I use Nizoral shampoo EOD while on to prevent loss. I would use topical spiro & nizoral if you are prone to MPB.
- 01-14-2004, 11:34 AM
I never lost a whole lot of hair on cycle probably due to hair supps but I did lose more hair overall the past 1 year after using phs or it could have been just my time to start thinning anyway (or it could have been accelerated by phs who knows).
m-1-t is supposedly less androgenic based on the theory that methylation reduces androgen receptor binding but how well that carries over to hair loss I don't know.
I'd use moderate doses of 4ad in whatever stack you choose. Its a good ph.
01-14-2004, 12:55 PM
Start w/ transermal 1test/4ad like Longdog said. That is exactly what I am doing and my results are very very pleasing. (5thday of cycle)
01-14-2004, 01:35 PM
What do you think made the difference this past year that caused you to lose more hair? Were you still using hair supps? Were you using different PHs or more androgenic PHs than before?Originally Posted by MarcusG
I understand the reason most people suggest 1-test before M1T since 1-test is a bit more mild, but 1-test must be used twice as long. Wouldn't this have a more overall affect on your body than a shorter cycle of M1T? Also, for cost effective purposes, using M1T is much less expensive (as one site sells 60 pills for 9.99 but I'm a bit hesitant about the quality at that price) and the PCT supplements would be less expensive too since that period would be shorter as well. I know that you can't put a price on your health or irreversible sides, but cost is still a factor and not too many people have reported serious sides so far w/ M1T. M1T is advertised as being less androgenic (not sure if they are referring to any particular side effect or all the side effects associated with 1-test in general) but i'm still researching to see if this is accurate.
Last edited by Ginseng; 01-14-2004 at 02:15 PM.
01-14-2004, 01:41 PM
01-14-2004, 01:53 PM
I agree with the others. Start out with a 1-test/4-AD transdermal. A 4 week cycle will yield very nice gains. If you are hell bent on using M1T then I would start with 5mg a day for 2 weeks stacked with a 4-AD dermal and Nolvadex for PCT.
01-15-2004, 12:33 AM
One of the first M1T cycle threads on AM, the guy had to quit the cycle because of problems breathing. Today, I just read a thread (I think Madman) had severe joint pain and noticed blue marks where his bicep connects to his elbow which indicates internal bleeding.Originally Posted by Ginseng
01-15-2004, 01:20 AM
much like you i wanted to run M1T for my first cycle. i was thinking more along the lines of 5mg ed. http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=12485
If people should slowly get into PH cycles starting at the weakest compounds S1+ or T1-pro, why dont ppl suggest the same thing for real gear. Starting with Anavar or Primo then moving up the ranks, instead people suggest starting with test a fairly strong product for a rookie.
01-15-2004, 08:51 AM
I stopped hair supps off cycle. I don't think the problem was tied to one particular ph.Originally Posted by Ginseng
Yes m-1-t cycles _can_ be short as 2weeks but people have reportedly lost hair on it too and the typical sides (good and bad) of 1-test seems to be amplified on m-1-t. IMO many are overdosing it on 2 week cycles.
01-15-2004, 04:55 PM
This poster (same username) asked the same question over at BB.com and every reply told him to abandon the idea. I guess he is hoping that sooner or later he will find someone who will agree with his plan.
01-15-2004, 11:33 PM
haha little does he know this is NOT the place to find that kind of supportOriginally Posted by Cogar
01-15-2004, 11:43 PM
When you were a little kid, did you just jump into the deep end of the pool before you knew how to swim? If you did, it wasn't a pleasant experience was it? Wade in the shallow end for awhile, get your skills up and then proceed to something like M1T after you know what to expect, both with gains and sides.
01-16-2004, 01:39 AM
I only posted there b/c i believe that site is used by more people, the responses from that site are faster, and it doesn't hurt to get more opinions. I posted on this site as well b/c i think the quality of the responses on this site are better as more experienced users seem to be using this one. Cogar, you have been very helpful on bb.com and i appreciate that. But as you can see, I have been receiving responses from much more different users by posting on both sites which was my original intentional. I will be posting my last question on that site as well.Originally Posted by Cogar
However, I've decided to use a 1test/4ad combination from pn. I have one last question before ordering it. I will use 5 grams of 1 test and 2.5 grams of 4AD. I will be able to add 2.5 more grams of a prohormone in it and I am debating whether the extra 2.5 grams should be 4AD or OHT. I have read several threads w/ people having excellent results from the T1 pro ratios and am curious if 2.5 grams of OHT is enough to illicit any type of benefit. I realize that it is usually added to stack for it's anit-e characteristics but how much could be expected from such a low dose of 4ad? For my first cycle, I will be using the minimal dose of 1 squirt 2x/day for one month. So what would be suggested as the final product: 1test/4ad at 5 grams each or 1test/4ad/oht at 5grams, 2.5 grams, and 2.5 grams?
Last edited by Ginseng; 01-16-2004 at 03:13 AM.
01-16-2004, 10:02 AM
I went with the 1test,4AD,4OHT route. In a 5:2.5:2.5 ratio. I'm on day 5 now, and havent had a noticeable difference.
01-16-2004, 10:13 AM
Ginseng- If you plan on dosing 2 squirts/day, I'd make it 5g 1-test & 5g 4ad. OHT is really just a stacking agent to control soem of the estrogenic sides from 4ad. I always use a few grams OHT in my transdermals to control water retention & acne. Many guys don't have a problem with those sides & wouldn't need OHT for that reason. OHT does not do much as far as gains, 4ad is much better for that purpose. Unless you know you need OHT, why pay 6x the price per gram of 4ad? It's up to you, I think you'll get better gains with all 4ad but you'll probably hold a little bit of water.
01-16-2004, 02:20 PM
Did you find that all 10 grams of powder mixed in well with the solution?Originally Posted by RRAdam
01-16-2004, 03:16 PM
No, mine is rather gritty - even after heating. I suppose I could have measured wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's 10
01-16-2004, 03:29 PM
The grit is undissolved PH that will stay on the surface of your skin & not be absorbed into your bloodstream. There will usually be some grit, but you want to minimize it.
You could add a little Isopropyl alcohol to it, it should help it dissolve a little more. The gel will become a little more viscous though.
01-16-2004, 09:05 PM
Bump on Ginseng's question. As I recall, Chemo mentioned that the BDC gel works best with ~ 7.5 g of PH or less. RRAdam, I do not think the mixed transdermal should be gritty, so that is good information and your evaluation seems right. Perhaps Chemo will take pity on us and give us some insight.Originally Posted by Ginseng
01-16-2004, 09:07 PM
I made mine with 5 grams of 1-Test and 2.5 grams of 4-AD. It may have an upper limit of 10grams but I think it works best not going over what I put in it.
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