M1-T/4AD cycle duration
- 01-13-2004, 10:35 AM
M1-T/4AD cycle duration
When M1-T first came out, many suggested shorter 2 weeks on/2 weeks off/2 weeks on cycles. I'm starting to get the impression lately however, after doing some searches on the subject, that many are now back to the more conventional 4 week cycle.
I have one 2 week M1-T cycle under my belt. I did 4 weeks of S1+, 3rd week added 20 mg of M1-T, 4th week switching to 30 mg of M1-T. Strength gain was awesome adding 30 lbs to bench for example. Gained 11 lbs of LBW, lost 7 lbs of that post cycle. Bench dropped back about 20 lbs, so I was a bit disappointed with that. I did Nolva PCT, 40 mg one week, 20 mg second week.
Which cycle looks better considering info above?
2 weeks M1-T (20-30mg ED)/4AD(400 mg ED) - 2 weeks off (Nolva PCT) - 2 weeks M1-T/4AD
4 weeks straight of M1-T/4AD with 3 weeks of Nolva PCT?
- 01-13-2004, 10:43 AM
- 01-13-2004, 03:05 PM
I suggest doing the 2 weeks, then re-evaluate whether or not to go 2 more or take 2 off. See how your progress is & how bad the sides are. The sides get bad around the end of 2 weeks for many guys. They are both good cycles, see which works out better for you.
You will need 3 weeks minimum PCT to recover after 4 weeks use of M1t, I use 4 weeks. That's probably why you lost so much after your prior cycle. If you do 2 divided 2-weekers, use Nolva on the 2 off weeks in the middle, then use Nolva again for 3-4 weeks after the whole thing. keep your calories high during pct as well.
01-13-2004, 04:38 PM
That's good advice guys. I diet fairly strict, usually 50%P/20%C/30%F, taking in around 300 grams of protein daily. It does make sense to evaluate after two weeks and that's what I'll do. My first cycle with M1-T the lethargy actually seemed to improve after I increased to 30 mg, but it may have been I was starting to get more used to it.
I wish I knew why I lost so much post cycle. I tried to keep my calories up, lowered volume and upped intensity. Even after just one week it was a fairly quick decline. I stabilized after 2 weeks. I'm 48, so I may get better results then most since my natural test is low, but that may also be the reason I have trouble hanging on to the gains.
01-13-2004, 05:05 PM
I hung on to most of my gains after my last M1T cycle (2 weeks at 5mg ed). I took cues from Supersoldier's thread that showed total shutdown after only three days. I figure that the first 2 weeks after a cycle have virtually no hormonal support so I did very little lifting at all. The first week of PCT I did no lifting at all. The second week I lowered my sets to 2 or even one in some cases and did maybe 40-50% of my max..basically just enough to get a little pump then quit. I switched to a 9 day split.
Some may flame me for this line of thinking but think about it..why are you lifting with zero testosterone in your system? That makes for a totally catabolic environment no matter how much you eat.
01-13-2004, 07:09 PM
Hmmm... interesting. Your line of thinking would support why I dropped so quickly after ceasing the M1-T.
I have only done a couple of PH cycles before. In those cases, I also experienced good gains, but it took a few weeks after ceasing the androgens before I lost strength (1-AD, then 1-test transdermal). This time gains dropped almost immediately, but then after 2 weeks seemed to have stabilized.
You may be on to something here Bioman.
01-13-2004, 09:51 PM
I still like the 2on/2off/2on approach. Judging by everyone's experiences with it your best gains will be in the first 10 days of the cycle. Running it for 4 weeks straight could possibly just leave you with a bunch of added side effects.
01-14-2004, 06:44 AM
Has anybody tried using M1-T for 2 on/2 off/2 on, but running the transdermal 4AD straight through? Then start Nolva for PCT at the end of 6 weeks. It seems to me the 4AD would start kicking in 3rd or 4th week, so on weeks 5 and 6 you should see great gains.
In my previous M1-T cycle, my gains increased right through the second week. This is why I'm curious to see what would happen if I went for a straight 4 week cycle.
01-14-2004, 11:26 AM
01-14-2004, 12:48 PM
I plan to try a similar cycle next month. I will use M1t & 4ad trans for 2 weeks, then 2 weeks of transdermal 1-test with 4ad, then 2 more with M1t/4ad. I don't think taking just 4ad in the middle will be worth it.Originally Posted by JerseyDevil
I also have a few grams of OH Test in all my 4ad transdermals. I don't take just 4ad alone due to the water retention.
Devil- I saw your 50/20/30 diet split. You may want to add some carbs to that, especially post cycle. It will help you retain more gains.
01-15-2004, 11:38 AM
Points well taken. It does make sense to use a trans 1-test/4AD during the 2 weeks off M1-t. I didn't seem to have trouble keeping gains before with low carbs, but again that makes total sense. I will definitely try upping my carbs post cycle. I was thinking of trying Twin Peak's carb cycling throughout also.Originally Posted by Longdog
I started the cycle today. Still am considering going 3-4 weeks straight. Thanks Longdog.
01-15-2004, 11:45 AM
01-15-2004, 11:29 PM
I think a common result from many user's cycles is that they weight gains and sometimes strength gains hit a wall after the 2 week mark
01-16-2004, 10:17 AM
Originally Posted by kmac6225
For some that is true
Me personally I didnt notice significant strength increases until the end of week 2
01-16-2004, 11:39 AM
01-16-2004, 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by mark
Moderate dose will depend on the user. From me 400mgs transdermally is a moderate dose of 4ad
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