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    Cutting Stack


    I'm having troubles deciding on what I should run for a cutting stack. I was definitely looking towards epi/tren or an epi/hdrol combo. I've been doing some research - but it seems like there are a lot of different methods for a cutting stack. I want to run the stack for 4 weeks followed by a 4 week PCT. Just wanted some of you guys to weigh in and give your .02.

    I'd like to be able to drop some BF, while getting some strength/size. I already have a PCT lined up with a SERM - just need to make a decision on the PH/DS I want to use. Thanks.

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    generally...4 weeks is not going to be long enough to run a decent cut.....

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    Well I wasn't sure what people were going to recommend (as i've read harsher compounds should be kept to shorter 4 week cycles) and I wanted to keep this cycle short since it is going to be my first PH/DS.

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    Aight i've decided on epi for sure.....here are some other possibilities i've read about and am also considering stacking with epi...

    3-AD / 11-oxo, Promagnon-25, Propadrol, Prostanozol, or Tren

    What do you guys think?

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    dont waste your time with the propadrol i used it in a stack with havoc and it didnt help much at all. your better off just sticking with the epi and maybe up the dose rather than stackin. Also six weeks worked well for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosco1234 View Post
    dont waste your time with the propadrol i used it in a stack with havoc and it didnt help much at all. your better off just sticking with the epi and maybe up the dose rather than stackin. Also six weeks worked well for me.
    Thanks man. I was thinking of running the epi for 30 days @ 30mg ED. I do realize that 4 weeks may not be long enough, but I am just wanting to test the waters so to speak.

    I'll strike propadrol from the record, along with the promangon-25. So we're down to 3-AD / 11-oxo, Prostanozol, or Tren to stack with Havoc. Right now i'm leaning towards prostanozol, but if someone thinks 3-AD or Tren would be better stack with havoc speak up.

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    I think a very good one would be h-drol/furaz for 6 weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsg View Post
    I think a very good one would be h-drol/furaz for 6 weeks.
    Thanks for that input, i'll do some research into that stack. Anyone else have any other recommendations?

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    Actually, I don't think i'm going to bother with furaz. Seems underdosed and too expensive to be effective.

    Been looking at h-drol/epi, and may throw in some clen with the epi towards the end of that cycle. Was thinking of bridging them.

    Hdrol weeks 1-4, epi weeks 3-6

    PCT: Torem (40/40/20/20), Lean Extreme Week 2, PCS

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    I will be starting a Havoc/tren stack in a few weeks. Havoc 6 weeks and the trenadrol for 4 weeks.

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    first cycle huh....i would look at epi for 4-6 weeks and then mabye use 11-oxo or that icon to bridge into pct....you could pull an 8 or nine week cycle out of the deal and keep the sides very low and that bridge will actually make your pct a lot easier....i thnk this would be a great cut....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    first cycle huh....i would look at epi for 4-6 weeks and then mabye use 11-oxo or that icon to bridge into pct....you could pull an 8 or nine week cycle out of the deal and keep the sides very low and that bridge will actually make your pct a lot easier....i thnk this would be a great cut....
    Sorry to hijack, mooch, would an hdrol/11oxo bridge be good for this as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    first cycle huh....i would look at epi for 4-6 weeks and then mabye use 11-oxo or that icon to bridge into pct....you could pull an 8 or nine week cycle out of the deal and keep the sides very low and that bridge will actually make your pct a lot easier....i thnk this would be a great cut....
    Thanks brother. I noticed there is 11-OXO and 3-AD in the store, which one would I be better off using and how would you set up dosage?

    I was planning on running that epi as 30/30/30/30 unless you have a better suggestion.

    I will be taking cycle assist as my support supp and have Torem, Lean Xtreme (starting 2nd week PCT), and PCS as my PCT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Sorry to hijack, mooch, would an hdrol/11oxo bridge be good for this as well?
    Don't worry about it brother, i'm interested in hearing this as well.

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    hdrol and 11-oxo would be fine as well....although i think icon from starchem labs would be a better option....its a lil cheaper and is in the already converted state....i personally prefer epi to hdrol tho....i dont see any results from hdrol till i get around 100-150mgs....with epi i see a drying out effect with 20mgs....i think its just a much better compound.....i do it like this

    epi-20/30/30/40/40/40
    icon-0/0/0/0/0/450/450/450

    this would be a nice little 8 week cut....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    hdrol and 11-oxo would be fine as well....although i think icon from starchem labs would be a better option....its a lil cheaper and is in the already converted state....i personally prefer epi to hdrol tho....i dont see any results from hdrol till i get around 100-150mgs....with epi i see a drying out effect with 20mgs....i think its just a much better compound.....i do it like this

    epi-20/30/30/40/40/40
    icon-0/0/0/0/0/450/450/450

    this would be a nice little 8 week cut....
    Thanks for the advice. However the Icon is more expensive than 11-OXO by about 10 bucks. However if you think the Icon is better I will take your word.

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    the 11-oxo wont last as long....you have to take like 9 pills a day to get the anabolic effects out of it....you would need two bottles...thats why icon is cheaper....plus as stated it doesnt need to convert like 11-oxo does....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    the 11-oxo wont last as long....you have to take like 9 pills a day to get the anabolic effects out of it....you would need two bottles...thats why icon is cheaper....plus as stated it doesnt need to convert like 11-oxo does....
    Wouldn't you need three bottles of the icon as well? Looking at it in the store it says 3 capsules is one serving for 150mg. There are only 20 servings in a container. So that would mean 3 servings per day for 3 weeks (that's 21 servings per week - so at least 3 bottles) according to your outline.

    Or is the store incorrect?

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    sorry typo....150/150/150 on the icon....1 cap 3 times a day....should last 20 days...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    sorry typo....150/150/150 on the icon....1 cap 3 times a day....should last 20 days...
    It's all good man, thanks for the help. I'll definitely be giving this stack a shot.

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    Good thread I am looking to do something similar I think.

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    Hmmm....I've been doing some looking on the board here and it seems that the Icon is not getting too many favorable comments...I may just do a Hdrol or Epi stacked with Tren, which I'm pretty sure I won't be able to get away with just an OTC PCT, or just Hdrol or Epi solo, not sure...opinions?
    I may also consider doing just Dymehtazine for my recomp...Vaughn says it would work for that, but I want to do more research first.

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    it doesnt get a lot of favorale comments because it doesnt get you hyooge....thats all the idiots out there care about......in this application it will be great....its not very supressive so it can allow your natty test levels to restart a bit while your still on cycle....it also blocks cortisol....so you can lengthen your cycle and help your pct or you can follow the masses and run mdrol for your three week cut......

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    it doesnt get a lot of favorale comments because it doesnt get you hyooge....thats all the idiots out there care about......in this application it will be great....its not very supressive so it can allow your natty test levels to restart a bit while your still on cycle....it also blocks cortisol....so you can lengthen your cycle and help your pct or you can follow the masses and run mdrol for your three week cut......
    I assume a SERM is still necessary for PCT with the the epi/Icon bridge?

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    in my opinion every pct should be
    nolva 20/20/20/20
    clomid 50/50/50/50
    and an ai of your choice.......

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    mooch, I'm not doubting you, the unfavorable comments have been more towards the bioavailability of the keto...and I wouldn't go the mdrol route just because of the sides...now, as far as PCT, clomid and nolva? Isn't that a bit overkill? I'm still on the fence of what I want to do...Epi/Icon or Epi or Hdrol with Tren...the Dymethazine I may do later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    mooch, I'm not doubting you, the unfavorable comments have been more towards the bioavailability of the keto...and I wouldn't go the mdrol route just because of the sides...now, as far as PCT, clomid and nolva? Isn't that a bit overkill? I'm still on the fence of what I want to do...Epi/Icon or Epi or Hdrol with Tren...the Dymethazine I may do later.
    no clomid and nolva do different things....nolva is great at stopping estrogen from binding at the receptor site and clomid is better at kickstarting lh function....you really need them both...and i like to add in an ai in the second week of pct to help estro buildup and avoid a rebound when you come off the nolva....i was given some icon by the starchem rep when it first came out....it wasnt anything great...but... i hardened up quite a bit and and put on a couple pounds with virtually no shutdown....as for the bio-availability i cant speak for that....but generally these non methyl have a pretty crappy bio-availability....i wouldnt recomend it for a solo run but i think bridging into pct while cutting would be a pretty good idea....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    mooch, I'm not doubting you, the unfavorable comments have been more towards the bioavailability of the keto...and I wouldn't go the mdrol route just because of the sides...now, as far as PCT, clomid and nolva? Isn't that a bit overkill? I'm still on the fence of what I want to do...Epi/Icon or Epi or Hdrol with Tren...the Dymethazine I may do later.
    oh and please doubt me all you want....we will never learn from each other if you just take my word on things....do the research and make your own educated decision....please dont do things on what i recomend....take my thought and tear them apart....if when you put it back together you agree with me then its all gravy baby...if not then you will probably die....lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    in my opinion every pct should be
    nolva 20/20/20/20
    clomid 50/50/50/50
    and an ai of your choice.......
    Well I was thinking this for PCT with the Epi/Icon -

    Toremefine 40/40/40/40

    didn't think an AI was really needed since Epi works on estrogen receptors and also acts as an AI.

    But you mentioned that while bridging the 11-oxo your natty test levels will start to return on their own, which was why I was questioning the necessity of a SERM in this particular PCT.

    I've also decided to run a log on this as well

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    Cool DarkHalf...a log would be awesome...I'd like to see what you come up with for your final decision on what to cycle, cycle support supps, pct, and pct support supps.

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    mooch and all, what do you think of an hdrol/furaguno stack for recomp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    Cool DarkHalf...a log would be awesome...I'd like to see what you come up with for your final decision on what to cycle, cycle support supps, pct, and pct support supps.
    Currently as it stands:

    On Cycle:
    Epi 20/30/30/40/40/40
    Icon 0/0/0/0/150/150/150
    Cycle Assist

    PCT:
    PCS
    Lean Xtreme in 2nd week
    Tore 40/40/20/20 (if needed, is a SERM really necessary on this bridge/cycle?)

    Was also thinking about throwing in a fat burner for the last 3 weeks on cycle, can anyone advise whether this is a good or bad idea?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Well I was thinking this for PCT with the Epi/Icon -

    Toremefine 40/40/40/40

    didn't think an AI was really needed since Epi works on estrogen receptors and also acts as an AI.

    But you mentioned that while bridging the 11-oxo your natty test levels will start to return on their own, which was why I was questioning the necessity of a SERM in this particular PCT.

    I've also decided to run a log on this as well
    you will have two weeks of running icon before pct....estro will probably rebound a little....as far as a serm goes its a personal preference but i would use one regardless....natty test levels will recover a bit on icon making pct easier....but that doesnt mean you shouldnt run a comprehensive pct.....


    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    mooch and all, what do you think of an hdrol/furaguno stack for recomp?
    probably a good cut stack....but both are notoriously weak compounds as far as gains go....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooch2321 View Post
    you will have two weeks of running icon before pct....estro will probably rebound a little....as far as a serm goes its a personal preference but i would use one regardless....natty test levels will recover a bit on icon making pct easier....but that doesnt mean you shouldnt run a comprehensive pct.....
    Sounds good, thanks for all the advice boss.

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    I think I'm gonna go with this plan too...just need to find some serms before I do

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    forgot to ask your opinions on this...what type of workouts do you guys do for a recomp? (I always change mine up...did 1 bodypart a week, upper/lower, etc, etc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    forgot to ask your opinions on this...what type of workouts do you guys do for a recomp? (I always change mine up...did 1 bodypart a week, upper/lower, etc, etc)
    I always train hard and heavy year round, 5 day split. Just the way I like to train and I find that it works best for me.

    Didn't realize that people needed to switch things up for a recomp. I generally just do a different workout each day - never repeating the pattern of exercises from the week before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    I think I'm gonna go with this plan too...just need to find some serms before I do
    Cool, maybe we could co-author a log.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkHalf View Post
    Cool, maybe we could co-author a log.
    I need to get SERMS first..trying to figure out a way to get them. I know a couple people that live in Mexico, I'm hoping they could pick them up for me...we'll see...I'd much rather have the pill form than the research liquid form...I will try to give input when I can; I work two full-time jobs, go right to the gym after second one, then bed...sometimes at my day job I can jump on...able to post the past week because I took a week off from the gym.

    Dark, you are just going to do the Torem for your SERM? And I think you said you were going to do a natural test booster and pcs as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ws65 View Post
    I need to get SERMS first..trying to figure out a way to get them. I know a couple people that live in Mexico, I'm hoping they could pick them up for me...we'll see...I'd much rather have the pill form than the research liquid form...I will try to give input when I can; I work two full-time jobs, go right to the gym after second one, then bed...sometimes at my day job I can jump on...able to post the past week because I took a week off from the gym.

    Dark, you are just going to do the Torem for your SERM? And I think you said you were going to do a natural test booster and pcs as well?
    That's cool man i'm in no rush. I'm not looking to start this for atleast another 3 weeks - as I have some supplements that I need to go through and I am still trying to decide whether or not I want to use torem for PCT or just get an OTC PCT. I am definitely using PCS and Lean Xtreme as a part of my PCT.

    Havoc OTC PCT - right?

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