Will Nolvadex cause Cancer during M1T PCT?
- 01-08-2004, 01:27 PM
Will Nolvadex cause Cancer during M1T PCT?
In my quest for cheap Nolva powder I came across the following article and now I'm a bit concerned that Nolvadex/Tamoxifen would too risky to use in post cycle therapy. I still haven't found the powder, so depending on what I decide about Nolva, I'll probably end up using the liquids available.
Anyway, here's the article (The same info can be found on many rx sites). The article is obviously geared towards women health issues because of the use of nolva in breast cancer, but most of it still applies to men.
I would love to hear opposing views on this. Other than Clomid, what do you see as a healthy PCT?
Beware of the Dark Side of
by Sherrill Sellman
There has been much ado in the press recently about the wonders of the drug tamoxifen (nolvadex). It has been heralded as a major breakthrough in the treatment and possible prevention of breast cancer. Tamoxifen is now the number one recommended drug treatment for women recovering from breast cancer. With half a billion dollars (US) in annual revenues1, it is currently used by more women with breast cancer than any other prescription drug.2
But as is the case with all pharmaceutical drugs, there are serious dangers which seem to be conveniently glossed over. Far from the savior of women's lives, it has potential lethal side-effects.
Despite tamoxifen's supposed ability to reduce recurrence in postmenopausal women, major studies have shown that tamoxifen reduces death from breast cancer only marginally.3, 4 The majority of women who take tamoxifen live no longer than women who refuse it.5 It is with great alarm that researchers are finding that some breast cancers actually learn how to use tamoxifen to stimulate their growth.6
While the initial findings of tamoxifen's role in breast cancer treatment seemed so promising, further research presented grave concerns for its widespread use. In fact the Physicians Desk Reference lists 25 adverse reactions to tamoxifen. Some can be fatal.
Tamoxifen often induces menopausal symptoms in young women. About half of the women experience hot flashes, fluid retention, weight gain, vaginal discharge, and vaginal atrophy. Some studies have also found that premenopausal users are at risk of developing accelerated bone mineral loss and osteoporosis. Menstrual irregularities also occur in premenopausal women. Amenorrhea ( absence of the menstrual cycle) often results and can be permanent.
Women using tamoxifen have experienced damaged retinas, increased corneal opacities, and decreased visual acuity. Irreversible corneal and retinal changes can also occur. These changes may predispose the eyes to later problems including cataracts.
Tamoxifen irritates the walls of the veins. The constant irritation and inflammation weakens the veins causing bleeding, clotting, thrombophlebitis, and in the worst cases -- obstruction of the blood vessels serving the lungs which can be deadly and occur with little warning.7 Several studies showed that the risk of developing life-threatening blood clots increased as much as seven times in women taking tamoxifen.8
Depression has been reported as a potential side-effect of tamoxifen in 30% of women. Cases have been reported of an inability to concentrate.
Tamoxifen can trigger asthma attacks in some sensitive patients.
Vocal Cord Changes
Tamoxifen can also cause changes to the vocal cords resulting in impairment of singing and speaking abilities.
Liver Cancer and Liver Disease
Tamoxifen is toxic to the liver and can cause acute hepatitis. The latest human studies show a six-fold increase in liver cancer among women taking tamoxifen for more than 2 years.9 Liver failure and tamoxifen-induced hepatitis, although rare, have been reported. While Zeneca, the manufacturer of tamoxifen admits that it is a liver carcinogen, it still continues to aggressively promote its use.
Uterine (Endometrial) Cancer
Uterine growths such as polyps, tumors, endometrial thickenings and cancers occur in a significant number of women. One study detected abnormal endometrial cells in subjects the day after the first tablet was taken!10
In a recent study, precancerous uterine and endometrial changes were seen in 10% of the women taking tamoxifen. The higher the dose of tamoxifen, and the longer it is taken, the greater the risk of changes. Women taking the standard dose for two years run the risk of uterine cancer that is 2 to 3 times greater than normal. After five years the risk is 6 to 8 times greater than normal.11
In February 1996 a review composed of scientists from various countries concluded "that there is sufficient evidence to regard tamoxifen as a human carcinogen that increases a woman's risk of developing.... cancer of the endometrium, the inner lining of the uterus."12
When the news came out reporting that breast cancer patients who take tamoxifen for five years or longer might have triple the risk of uterine cancer13, many researcher said that "it's no big deal" since early detection of endometrial cancer rarely results in death. That statement infuriated critics who noted that the treatment for uterine cancer is a hysterectomy. However, now it is known that breast cancer patients who develop uterine cancer while using tamoxifen are likely to have a fast moving, lethal form of the disease.14
In September 2000, The Lancet reported a study which showed that the drug tamoxifen, often used to treat breast cancer and as a preventive in some high risk women as well, increased the risk of developing endometrial cancer. In addition, this risk increased with time, leading researchers to question the use of the drug in healthy women. It found that women who took tamoxifen for 2 to 5 years had twice the risk of the cancer as women who have not taken it. Women who had taken it for 5 years or more have a seven times higher risk of endometrial cancer. The total increased risk for all women who used tamoxifen at all was 50%. Advanced endometrial cancers were more common in women who had taken tamoxifen long-term than in those who had not. The 3-year survival for endometrial cancer was "significantly worse" for long-term tamoxifen users.
It also should be noted that tamoxifen has also been associated with gastrointestinal cancers.
The premise for taking tamoxifen is its supposed role in protecting breast cancer patients from its recurrence. However, the benefits of tamoxifen are limited. Virtually all women who take it become resistant within five years. It was postulated that it prevented breast cancer from occurring in the opposite breast, known as contralateral cancer. However, disturbing findings continue to surface challenging tamoxifen's effectiveness. In 1992, the New England Journal of Medicine showed that tamoxifen may reduce the incidence of contralateral cancer but only in premenopausal women and only in three of eight trials. In another 1992 study, tamoxifen not only failed to reduce contralateral cancers in premenopausal women, it actually increased their incidence.15
The shocking truth about tamoxifen's effect on breast cancer, appeared in a recent study published in the journal, Science in July 1999. Researchers acknowledged that tamoxifen eventually loses its effectiveness and then may actually help some cancers to grow. Their clinical experience revealed that after only two to five years, tamoxifen's supposed anti-estrogen fades and estrogen-sensitive cancers begin to grow again thus increasing the risk of breast and uterine cancers!
Heart Disease and Osteoporosis
The promise of tamoxifen was its supposed protective benefits to the heart and bones. It was theorized that its estrogenic properties would help reduce heart disease and osteoporosis in women but, once again, the theory crumbled under the weight of hard facts. Several trials with tamoxifen failed to show that it has any effect on bone density and thus on prevention of osteoporosis. In three other trials, bone density increased slightly in lower spinal vertebra but not in longer bones or hip bones which are particularly susceptible to fractures and potentially fatal complications.
Initial data seemed to indicate that it decreased the incidence of heart attacks. However, in January 1996, it was reported by the National Cancer Institute that tamoxifen failed to prevent heart disease in breast cancer patients.16
Tamoxifen: A Known Carcinogen
It wasn't long before laboratory studies showed that tamoxifen acted as a carcinogen. It binds tightly and irreversibly to DNA, the genetic blueprint of a cell causing a cancerous mutation to take place. No amount of tamoxifen is safe when it comes to carcinogenic effects.
The irony of tamoxifen is that while widely publicized as the leading treatment for the recurrence of breast cancer, it is, in fact, a known carcinogenic substance. The World Health Organization, after reviewing the existing information about the carcinogenicity of tamoxifen, found unequivocal evidence confirming tamoxifen as human carcinogen.
On May 16, 2000, The New York Times printed an article, "U.S.. Report Adds to List of Carcinogens". It reported that National Institute for Environmental Health Sciences listed 218 substances known or suspected to cause cancer in people. Tamoxifen was included in that list.
It is now known that reducing caloric intake reduces estrogen levels. Recent studies find 46 percent less breast cancer among women consuming more fruit and vegetables, especially cruciferous vegetables like broccoli, cabbage, and brussel sprouts. Eating organic foods, which eliminates the carcinogenic pesticides and hormones, is essential. Women interested in preventing breast cancer could make modest changes in diet and derive better and certainly safer results.20
It is widely believed that today's drugs are tomorrow's poisons. In the case of tamoxifen, tomorrow has already arrived.
The National Foundation for Alternative Medicine. 202-463-4900. Investigates and recommends successful cancer clinics worldwide. www.nfam.org.
The Cancer Control Society: A referral service to clinics and practitioners using successful alternative cancer treatments. www.cancercontrolsociety.com.
Optimal Health Products: Offers Cruciflax, a natural alternative to tamoxifen, which is a whole food supplement that eliminates toxic estrogen metabolites from the body. www.blisscream.com. 888-641-2547.
Ralph Moss. Ph.D. is the author of 11 books and three documentaries exploring successful alternative cancer treatments. He researches individual reports on the most effective treatments for a particular kinds of cancer. www.ralphmoss.com.
- 01-08-2004, 01:44 PM
Everything with a grain of salt. You can find a report on almost any substance saying that it's bad for you in someway. Hell I remember reading the report saying that if you drank too much water you'd go crazy!! Should you be worried? No. I think that enough people have taken Nolva that if there was a problem it would have surfaced by now and any resonable PCT certainly isn't using the size doses to cause any. I'm no doctor or expert so I could be wrong, but this is just my 2 cents.
- 01-08-2004, 02:14 PM
there are three "resources" in there that state somewhere they are affiliated with alternative medicine...red flag.
anything can be toxic and have adverse effects. you can die from taking aspirin if you have undetected Reye's Syndrome, so nothing is truly safe.
there are studies that do show nolva to be beneficial to cancer patients, so like phatbody said, you will find data for pros and cons of any pharmaceutical.
for the doses and lengths that we use it for, i do not think it has any substantial negative impact or prolonged adverse effect.
01-08-2004, 02:42 PM
That's the first time I've read of visual disturbance problems with Nolva. I wonder if this is a problem with all drugs in this class, i.e. Clomid, etc.
01-08-2004, 04:46 PM
This is from the national Cancer Institute:
Does tamoxifen cause eye problems?
As women age, they are more likely to develop cataracts (a clouding of the lens inside the eye). Women taking tamoxifen appear to be at increased risk for developing cataracts. Other eye problems, such as corneal scarring or retinal changes, have been reported in a few patients.
Does tamoxifen cause other types of cancer?
Although tamoxifen can cause liver cancer in particular strains of rats, it is not known to cause liver cancer in humans. It is clear, however, that tamoxifen can sometimes cause other liver toxicities in patients, which can be severe or life threatening. Doctors may order blood tests from time to time to check liver function.
One study suggested a possible increase in cancers of the digestive tract among women receiving tamoxifen for breast cancer. Other trials, including the BCPT, have not shown an association between tamoxifen and these cancers.
Studies such as the BCPT show no increase in cancers other than uterine cancer. This potential risk is being evaluated.
01-08-2004, 05:28 PM
Dept of Health & Human Services classifies it as a Carcinogen
Luckily for men it seems that it only has a rare chance of causing a type of uterine cancer. Here is a link to the list of near 250 known Carcinogens from the US Dept of Health and Human Services & the pages describing Tamoxifen. Who would have thought wood dust?
Today the Department of Health and Human Services released the 9th edition of the RoC. The RoC, prepared by the National Toxicology Program (NTP), identifies substances -- such as metals, pesticides, drugs, and natural and synthetic chemicals --that are "known" or are "reasonably anticipated" to cause cancer, and to which a significant number of Americans are exposed. The Report is a scientific and public health document first ordered by Congress in 1978 because many cancers appear to be caused by exposure to substances in the environment including the home and workplace, or from use of agents such as food additives, pesticides or pharmaceuticals.
Tamoxifen has been added to the 9th edition of this Report. It is listed as "known to be a human carcinogen" based on sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity from studies in humans that indicate a causal relationship between exposure to tamoxifen and cancers of the uterine endometrium. While there is clear evidence that tamoxifen increases the risk of uterine cancer in women taking the drug, there is also conclusive evidence that tamoxifen therapy is effective in the treatment of breast cancer, reduces the risk of recurrence of breast cancer when administered after breast cancer surgery, reduces the risk of contralateral breast cancer in women with a previous diagnosis of breast cancer, and reduces the incidence of breast cancer in women at high risk of this diagnosis. Tamoxifen is approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for all four indications.
01-08-2004, 05:41 PM
Thanks for bringing this to our attention KIMO. It's good to be informed although based on the info presented it doesn't appear that a short 2 week course of Nolva will harm you.
01-08-2004, 07:37 PM
Kimo Brah, I'm assuming since you're considering a M1T cycle that you're not a woman. Also, assuming that you're not taking it for 2 to 5 years since you're looking at Nolva for PCT.
I'm not a doctor or anything, but I can give you a 100% iron clad guarantee that a man will not develop uterine cancer.Originally Posted by kimo_brah
The only cancer concern that you listed that could impact men was Gastrointestinal Cancer, but if you read closer it was only in premenopausal women.
Similar Forum Threads
- By damo125 in forum AnabolicsReplies: 2Last Post: 07-12-2013, 04:21 AM
- By idolizestewie in forum Post Cycle TherapyReplies: 7Last Post: 04-17-2012, 08:21 AM
- By TheMeatus101 in forum AnabolicsReplies: 21Last Post: 08-05-2011, 10:48 AM
- By hypo in forum AnabolicsReplies: 6Last Post: 01-04-2004, 11:20 PM
- By Johnny666 in forum AnabolicsReplies: 1Last Post: 11-23-2003, 04:57 PM