Progesterone and Prolactin

[sethroberts]

I wrote a quick article on progesterone and prolactin. This is all I could think of at the moment but feel free to question and hopefully we can get a discussion going that will flesh this out. No cliffs -- you actually have to read it -- it is not that long.

There is much confusion, conjecture and bro’lore surrounding prolactin and progesterone and how to control them to avoid gynecomastia, loss of libido and shutdown. A lot of confusion surrounds the misconception that these two hormones are one in the same. They are, in fact, two totally different hormones, with two totally different mechanisms of action and totally different effect profiles in the body.

Prolactin is a peptide hormone of 199 amino acids that is similar in structure to growth hormone. Prolactin is produced in the anterior pituitary in cells called lactotropes. Prolactin is secreted in an episodic fashion throughout the day. Its secretion is inhibited by dopamine and stimulated by estrogen, stress, TRH, and other factors such as suckling and nipple manipulation. Prolactin acts through prolactin receptors present on the surface of cells. In the human, these receptors are stimulated by GH and prolactin with equal potency. Prolactin initiates and maintains lactation in the estrogen primed breast. Prolactin is not a growth factor in breast tissue which is why it is necessary for breast tissue to be primed by the growth promoting action of estrogen in order for prolactin to exert its effects. Even so, lactation is prevented in the presence of high levels of estrogen and progesterone, such as those that exist in pregnancy, and lactation only proceeds with a drop in estrogen/progesterone levels post delivery. Prolactin inhibits gonadotropin secretion and therefore suppresses the hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axis and the production of testosterone.

Progesterone is a steroid hormone that binds to intracellular progesterone receptors that act in the nucleus of cells. Progesterone is produced in males by the adrenal glands and males have the same plasma level of progesterone as women d o during the follicular phase of the menstrual cycle. There are actually two progesterone receptors. A functional receptor and a nonfunctional receptor that acts to suppress the activity of the functional receptor. Progesterone antagonizes the effect of estrogen by reducing estrogen receptor levels. This is exemplified by the use of progestins to fight estrogen responsive breast cancer. Progesterone has a potent suppressive effect on gonadotropin secretion and has been used as a contraceptive agent in men.

There is no evidence that controlling prolactin will prevent or treat gynecomastia. Many of the issues that are being attributed to prolactin can be explained through other mechanisms. While reducing prolactin may help with reduced libido and shutdown due to AAS, the potential risks involved with using dopaminergics to reduce prolactin levels probably outweighs the benefits. If estrogen is controlled during a cycle, then prolactin is unlikely to be elevated and unlikely to cause a problem.

[Random181]

A great read, that certainly helped clear things up! thanks seth

[crazyfool405]

seth,

my blood work on pplex mdrol bridge showed E2 lowered from 28 to 21 and prolactin levels raised,

what woulda caused this?

[Frank Reynolds]

Good post man.

[sethroberts]

seth,

my blood work on pplex mdrol bridge showed E2 lowered from 28 to 21 and prolactin levels raised,

what woulda caused this?

What else were you using (including supps) and how high were they elevated?

[crazyfool405]

Nothing else was being used maybe some cissus that's it. Ill have to check the number it elevated to tho.

[Problem]

Good info.

So high estrogen levels induces prolactin secretion ?

What is progestin ?

Do both PH and progesterone play a role in the development of gyno, or is it only prolactin levels?

Thank you sir.

[crazyfool405]

prolactin went from 5.8 to 7 .3,

TSH ultra sensitive went from 5.92 to 4.77
T3 total went from .99 to .72
igf1 from 449 to 111
FSH from 2.8 to 1.3
LH from 2.8 to 2.6
Test from 501 to 36
E2 from 25 to 21

this is pre then on cycle results.

[sethroberts]

prolactin went from 5.8 to 7 .3,

TSH ultra sensitive went from 5.92 to 4.77
T3 total went from .99 to .72
igf1 from 449 to 111
FSH from 2.8 to 1.3
LH from 2.8 to 2.6
Test from 501 to 36
E2 from 25 to 21

this is pre then on cycle results.

You didn't include units of measurement but I am ssuming that your range for prolactin was <25 is normal. An "increase" from 5.8 to 7.3 would not be considered clinically relevent since it is not outside the normal range and since the magnitude of change was within the range of diurnal variation. The change in IGF-1 levels is interesting but as I have stated elsewhere, plasma IGF-1 levels are generally not relevent towards building muscle. I am guessing that your SHBG levels were down and therefore your free estradiol was probably significantly elevated even though there was only a slight drop in total levels -- which could account for the slight increase in prolactin levels thoguh again, it could just be diurnal variation.

Your T3 decreased likely due to an increase in T3 uptake secondary to a decrease in TBG levels -- it is not known if phera and mdrol do this but it doeas occur with several other orals so based on your blood tests it seems likely that one or both of them does.

[sethroberts]

Good info.

So high estrogen levels induces prolactin secretion ?

What is progestin ?

Do both PH and progesterone play a role in the development of gyno, or is it only prolactin levels?

Thank you sir.

Progestin is to progesterone as androgen is to testosterone. Progestin is the class, progesterone is the prototypical example.

In my opinion, neither progesterone nor prolactin play a significant role in most cases of gynecomastia -- just estrogen. (I assume the PH you are referring to somehow means progesterone?)

[Smiley]

Great summary of these Seth. I learned a lot, but now i just have more questions. I'm assuming this thread came about due to everyone and their brother taking "tren" orals? I have seen a lot of gyno questions with people mixing these up lately.

Could you please clarify that last post on progestin? Progesterone and prolactin are subcategories to it?

When gyno is accompanied by leaky nips it is most important still to control the estrogen buildup, because that is the main factor? Everyone seems to recommend caber in these cases.

[Random181]

So the 'Trenadrol' and 1-t tren, or infact real treneblone which are 'progestins' which hormone do these actually increase?

[Primordial Perf]

Great summary of these Seth. I learned a lot, but now i just have more questions. I'm assuming this thread came about due to everyone and their brother taking "tren" orals? I have seen a lot of gyno questions with people mixing these up lately.

Could you please clarify that last post on progestin? Progesterone and prolactin are subcategories to it?

When gyno is accompanied by leaky nips it is most important still to control the estrogen buildup, because that is the main factor? Everyone seems to recommend caber in these cases.

Progesterone
Nandrolone
Trenbolone

…. All “progestins” because of the chemical structure on the 17 position.

I want to comment on this thread real quick...

I see a clear reduction in gyno related symptoms when using an anti-prolactin based sups (vitex) during the use of progestin based anabolics. Although there may not be a published trial on bros preventing gyno with anti-prolactins from progestins… there is a clear connection.

I say be cautious and use Vitex during a progestin based cycle anyway, it will reduce the total mammary stimulation and help avoid the whole gyno problem.

-Eric

[Primordial Perf]

So the 'Trenadrol' and 1-t tren, or infact real treneblone which are 'progestins' which hormone do these actually increase?

Im not sure on Trenadrol… (it might be the same 19-nor molecule we refer to as TREN, but Im not sure)

our "TREN" will convert to dienalone, which is very similar to Trenbolone. (its actually a chemical intermediate used in the manufacturing process)

Both of them are “progestins”…. But also very strong androgens.

-Eric

[Mass_69]

I wrote a quick article on progesterone and prolactin. This is all I could think of at the moment but feel free to question and hopefully we can get a discussion going that will flesh this out. No cliffs -- you actually have to read it -- it is not that long.

There is much confusion, conjecture and bro’lore surrounding prolactin and progesterone and how to control them to avoid gynecomastia, loss of libido and shutdown. A lot of confusion surrounds the misconception that these two hormones are one in the same. They are, in fact, two totally different hormones, with two totally different mechanisms of action and totally different effect profiles in the body...

...Many of the issues that are being attributed to prolactin can be explained through other mechanisms. While reducing prolactin may help with reduced libido and shutdown due to AAS, the potential risks involved with using dopaminergics to reduce prolactin levels probably outweighs the benefits. If estrogen is controlled during a cycle, then prolactin is unlikely to be elevated and unlikely to cause a problem.

THANK YOU!! I have tried explaining the differences between these 2 hormones in the past and it drives me crazy how many threads there are that either use these 2 names interchangibly or assume that using a "progestin" steroids causes "prolactin sides." I've always preached that if you want to control "prolactin side-effects" to be sure and control estrogens.

[Problem]

Progestin is to progesterone as androgen is to testosterone. Progestin is the class, progesterone is the prototypical example.

In my opinion, neither progesterone nor prolactin play a significant role in most cases of gynecomastia -- just estrogen. (I assume the PH you are referring to somehow means progesterone?)

Sorry, typo, i meant prolactin releasin hormone PRH not PH.

So if tren nor pplex aromatize, why in your opinion "some" users experience lactation with tren clones or pheraplex ?
It's confusing, no one really has a clear answer, i hope you do.

[crazyfool405]

If progesterone antagonizes estrogen then why do we see kactation with deca and tren which are known progestins. Shouldn't if they are prigestins prevent lactaion and gyno?

[SeanyK]

so seth,

in general, for those who are using progestins like tren, prodienelone, nandrolone, etc... what is the best ancilliary / support you could use to control estrogen? maybe a moderate AI like anastrozole? you stress controlling estrogen, but to what degree (and with what)?

[crazyfool405]

I've even heard lactation with epi and superdrol as well. A lot of the 5a reduced steroids seem to cause that

[Primordial Perf]

If progesterone antagonizes estrogen then why do we see kactation with deca and tren which are known progestins. Shouldn't if they are prigestins prevent lactaion and gyno?

Steroids or progestins may be doing a lot of things…

They may be increasing prolactin release from the lactotropes, they may be offsetting E2/E1 from the binding proteins, they may be down-regulating DHT to the point where estrogen and progesterone have no antagonism, ect…

Progestins can and do cause gyno whatever the reason may be… reducing prolactin helps reduce this occurrence, as well as reducing estrogen.

-Eric