Amount of Methyl taken during a cycle

[phatbody]

Here is something I haven't really heard discussed. What would be the total amount of methylated products a person could take? For example if I take 20mg of M1T orally everyday for 4 weeks for the most part I'd be ok. Now what if I wanted add 20mg of M4AD? And even 20mg of M5AA? At what point does the dosing need to be scaled back because of amount of methyl products ingested? Would there be an all around cap of say no more than XXmg of total products or do the methyl products affect the liver differently in different amounts? For example 20 mgs of M1T affects the liver the same as say 40mg of M5AA (note: this is just an example and not a fact).

 

[WATERLOGGED]

that is an excellent question, i myself would like to hear that also.

 

[Beelzebub]

Actually, this has been discussed. Search.

 

[phatbody]

Would you happen to know which posts discuss this? I search a lot before I ask questions and have not come up with a satisfactory answer for this one. Most deal with personal cycles and feedback in that person A asks if this is a good cycle and persons B-Z respond with either yes or no.

 

[Beelzebub]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12163

Upon reading the above listed thread a little closer, it doesn't address all of your questions. But it does answer a few, hopefully it helps, didn't mean to screw up your thread.

 

[phatbody]

It's all good man, whatever we can do to increase our knowledge and help each other out. I've actually been watching that thread. I like the idea of taking M5AA before workouts but doubt it can replace my ephedra, in that I wouldn't be able to take it before every workout...because you know...I like to workout year round.

 

[Greenguy]

Here is something I haven't really heard discussed. What would be the total amount of methylated products a person could take? For example if I take 20mg of M1T orally everyday for 4 weeks for the most part I'd be ok. Now what if I wanted add 20mg of M4AD? And even 20mg of M5AA? At what point does the dosing need to be scaled back because of amount of methyl products ingested? Would there be an all around cap of say no more than XXmg of total products or do the methyl products affect the liver differently in different amounts? For example 20 mgs of M1T affects the liver the same as say 40mg of M5AA (note: this is just an example and not a fact).

I believe that although all methylated hormones and somewhat toxic, some are less so and some are very much more so.

So you can not say "X is the limit for total millgrams of methylated compounds".

Anavar has very different toxicity from 17aa Trenbolone. If you took the latter like people eat dbol, you probably would find out if there's life after death.

Greenguy

 

[phatbody]

Very true. I figure that some scale back is needed if several methyl products are ingested. I guess it would be nice to know the toxicity of each methylated compound so we will be able to fine tune our cycles.

 

[Sldge]

But there is a huge difference in the strengths of Methyltren and anavar. Methyltren has an anabolic ratio of about 30,000 compared to anavars 1000. That is one of the reasons why Methyltren is so toxic.

Try reading this just for some ideas.
http://www.avantlabs.com/content/page-84.html

I do feel that you should lower the overall dose the more methyls that you add into the stack.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Stacking methyl's is never a good idea. Most advanced steroid users stick to one oral at a time. Although hepatoxicity is overrated to an extent, it wasn't meant to suggest that stacking orals is a good idea. It never is.

As DS said it depends on the toxicity of the hormone. Usually the more toxic, the more stress its puts on the liver. And the latest methylated PH's are pretty damn potent. Stakcing them together isn't the wisest of things and if you find yourself doing so on a frequent basis you should question you motives, or patience needed for this sport. I've stacked orals together and will never do it again.

 

[phatbody]

This is really good info to know. I've seen several posts about personal cycles with two or more methyl products and no one really addressing this issue I've brought up. I'm concerned that with all the methyl products that are coming out someone might not do enough research and hurt themselves. I myself was thinking about stacking some M1T and M1,4AD(when it comes out) but decided to check it out first. Good thing I did.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I think you've made a smart decision. This is also why a 4-AD trans can be very beneficial with all of these. You get a substance that can add very good mass withouth the risk associated with methylated substances.

Every advanced steroid user will tell you the majority of the time that a cycle should always have a test base. This rule should also apply with PH's and 4-AD can be the substitute. I don't there is a stack that can't benefit from a 4AD trandsermal.

 

[Sldge]

I agree 4AD should be the backbone of most cycles. the problem is that when adding in more orals you need to lower the overall dose.
for ex. if you would normally run 20mg m1t per day and gain 7-10lbs in 2 weeks, with a decent amount of side effects. If you did 5-10mg of M1T per day with 10-20mg of Methyl-1,4ADDiol would you get similar results with less sides. 5mg of M1T with 10mg of Methyl-1,4ADDiol is only 15mgs of methyls per day, 5mg less then if you ran the M1T alone. If you gain 4-5lbs, without the lethargy, without the high BP, without the back pain and loss of appetite, then to me that is a better choice.
On the high side you are adding 10mgs more of methyls, but lessoning the amount of the harsher stronger compound (M1T).

 

[Tahq]

I think part part of the problem is the false sense of security from the gains on short cycles. Running 20mg of M1T for 2 on - 2 off - 2on appears to be readily acceptable and the liver toxicity issue is considered low, but when you begin adding additional methylated substances it can compound the effect...sometimes 1+1 = 3.

We are dealing with several new substances without a high degree of solid real world product testing, it is always best to put safety first and think long term.

 

[Tahq]

DS, I see your reasoning and the concept makes sense...but do you know if the different methyl substances have the same toxicity as it relates to the liver? Does 20mg M1T = 20mg M5AA? I do not have an extensive knowledge of chemistry or the reactions of methyl substances in the human body, but I would assume different chemical structures would have varying degrees as would stacking them.

I agree that the sides of 10mg M1T and 20 mg M5AA would likely be less harsh than 30 mg of M1T, but is the toxicity the same? I'm open to any theories.

 

[smike319]

DS, I see your reasoning and the concept makes sense...but do you know if the different methyl substances have the same toxicity as it relates to the liver? Does 20mg M1T = 20mg M5AA? I do not have an extensive knowledge of chemistry or the reactions of methyl substances in the human body, but I would assume different chemical structures would have varying degrees as would stacking them.

I agree that the sides of 10mg M1T and 20 mg M5AA would likely be less harsh than 30 mg of M1T, but is the toxicity the same? I'm open to any theories.

bump that question! i would really like to know the answer to this question

 

[Dwight Schrute]

No, nobody does. Its all speculation. Thats the problem.

 

[MarcusG]

Bobo, in light of methylated compounds coming out, do you have a hunch of how they could ordered in term of liver toxic-ness. M-1-t, M-dienolone, M-4OHT, M-4OHN??

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Its all different but I can tell you one thing, M-dienolone is definetly the worst. I suspect the 4-OHN, 4-OHN would be the least but its all speculation.

 

[sly]

M-dienolone, Mmmmmm, Can't wait.

 

[Sldge]

again it all depends on dose as well. Methyl-dien is strong and because it is so close to methyltren it is possible that it could be more toxic then M1T, but you can use a much smaller dose.
Super Sol. had his liver values tested on M1T and when he gets his sample he will get them tested again so at least there will be a comparison. I am getting my blood check pre-during-post cycle to seee how it changes and what it returns to. So there will be a strating point.
Remember though that M4OHN is quite strong as well, but I am working on one that should be pretty mild and possibly one women can use. But That will not be done for at least 6 weeks, so no one pm me or email me asking about. Everytime I leak a little info on something all of a sudden everyone has something similar they are working on. So this one stays nice and quite.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Dienolone is definetly more toxic than M1T. Of that I'm quite certain.

 

[nikegurl]

...Remember though that M4OHN is quite strong as well, but I am working on one that should be pretty mild and possibly one women can use. But That will not be done for at least 6 weeks, so no one pm me or email me asking about. Everytime I leak a little info on something all of a sudden everyone has something similar they are working on. So this one stays nice and quite.

any update on the one you were working on that might be good for women to use?