Epistane/Havoc PCT - is a SERM a must? seriously conufsed

mark118

mark118

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Hi guys,

Im planning a 6 week epi/havoc cycle but i have read a lot of mixed info on the PCT.

Because of my career (and being in the UK) I am reluctant to buy Nolvadex (not sure of the legalities behind buying it). Inhibit E has been recommended. Is this sufficient for the suppression of Epi/Havoc?

If so, should I add a natural test booster to speed up recovery?

Thanks again guys
 

SeanyK

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everyone is different... but its pretty safe to say that YES, GET A SERM, and quit the confusion. if you dont need it at least youll have it later for a time you do need it. and if you need it and dont have it... well then my friend, you're just plain f*cked aren't you?
 
mooch2321

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otc...resveritrol and iccarin....have a serm on hand...dont play with fire...
 
MPFit

MPFit

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otc...resveritrol and iccarin....have a serm on hand...dont play with fire...
best advice your gonna get..

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LAGear

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Any opinions about PP's Testosterone Recovery Stack for Havoc PCT? The primary component is Sustain Alpha which some (including PP) claim is sufficient without a SERM for any PH/PS/AAS. I find that hard to believe, but I'm almost buying into the idea it is sufficient without a SERM for Havoc.

This would be for a four week cycle running 40 in the final week. If I can't run an OTC instead of a SERM I'm not sure what the point of running OTC + SERM is, unless I can run the SERM at a lower dose. When using a SERM with OTC do you use a lower SERM dose?

What about using Toremifene instead of nolva as my SERM?

I've spent every free minute in the last two or three weeks researching this and just registered so I can ask intelligent questions.

Thanks.
 
LAGear

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lol way to hijack a thread LAGear.
Why do you say that?

The title of the thread is "Epistane/Havoc PCT - is a SERM a must? seriously conufsed" and I am in the same boat as OP.

I could have started a new thread but I prefer to post in an exiting thread when possible. Besides, I don't see how my questions were in any way OT. Am I missing something?
 
mooch2321

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on topic...the idea of whether or not to use a serm has been beat to death....you need to do your own research make your own choice....otherwise you will probably just take the side of whoever sounds the smartest in whatever thread your posting on....for a mild four week cycle...yes you can probably get away without a serm.....but you will notice that most of the people who say not to use a serm will usually recomend to have one on hand....just in case....to me that says something....
 
LAGear

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on topic...the idea of whether or not to use a serm has been beat to death....you need to do your own research make your own choice....otherwise you will probably just take the side of whoever sounds the smartest in whatever thread your posting on....for a mild four week cycle...yes you can probably get away without a serm.....but you will notice that most of the people who say not to use a serm will usually recomend to have one on hand....just in case....to me that says something....
Thank you. I am leaning in that direction (OTC with SERM on hand). But what does "just in case" mean?

It's my first cycle so I have no idea what I'm supposed to feel like. What are the "just in case" signs I should look for to use the SERM?

Is there any point of running the OTC with a low dose SERM to cover all my bases?
 
mooch2321

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i am an advocate of only low dose serm usage....i use nolva at
20/20/20/20
adn clomid at
50/50/50/50

this is sufficient for long injectable cycle...and i also will add in an otc aromatase inhibitor....which most people would consider an otc pct...in my opinion it is sorely lacking....and what shut down in pct feels like is no energy, no libido, depression...those sorts of things...now id like to stop that in the first place so i use serms....many will wait to see if it happens...you know...just in case
 

dax506

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You do NOT need a SERM for Epistane for Christ's sake. You'd be lucky to gain more than 6lbs off it with perfect diet and routine. Its a relatively weak compound.
 
mark118

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hmm, except for dax506 most say a SERM is the way forward and although its not what i wanted to hear it is something ive accepted.

I will now go a for Hdrol as the PCT for this is more acceptable in using OTC

thanks for the info guys
 
WilteredFire

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Hey mark,

im in the UK too...for my first cycle, I will be looking at running some hdrol instead of Epi/Havoc...

I think especially for a first cycle, H-drol would be a good choice, its mild, and you wont need a serm for that, and the results will be pretty decent too. Can be used to bulk or cut. So why go for a compound like Epi/Havoc if you're going to require a SERM and dont want the legal issue of it? :)

Check out the tonz of good feedback on H-drol, less gyno worries than Epi/Havoc IMO. The other thing is, your planning on a 6week cycle, thats stretching it a bit, 4weeks you could still get away with an OTC Pct.

For hdrol a good test booster + AI should be sufficient...For your AI, hyperdrol x2 or Cissus Drol might be good, Cissus has got the 6bromo in there (tried that recently in another product) but also will help control cortisol which might be nice for your body PCT. I better nail down my PCT soon so i can get ready for my cycle in the coming months.

All the best
 
LAGear

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OK, so I think I'm going to go with the 4 weeks of Havoc with OTC PCT and SERM on hand "just in case." Despite what Dax says some people have had complications with Havoc/Epi so I'm going to have a SERM available to be safe.

So I have another question. Once you start the SERM can you stop at any time or do you need to keep taking it for the full four weeks? What I was thinking is maybe start my OTC PCT stacked with just 10mg Nolva. And then when I'm sure I'm not shutdown stop the SERM after a week or so and keep doing the OTC. Is that a bad idea?

If that's a bad idea then I'll just start OTC PCT and add the SERM if I notice problems.
 
mark118

mark118

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Thanks WilteredFire. I am thinking of opting for iForce Reversitol for PCT because, having spent many many hours searching for info, it seems as though it has the bases covered with it being an AI and according to the reps, starting natural test production. (I have LeanFX too)

I was opting for 6 weeks to max my time on the Hdrol and I understand that it takes a few weeks to kick in too.

But yea, im happy with Hdrol and dont want to play with the fire of Havoc and not have a SERM on hand
 

LeeRoi

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Is Iforce reversitol a PCT or Serm or both? I'm looking at the ingredients and it says S.E.R.M. Matrix 500mg..so it's confusing me..thanks
 
mooch2321

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You do NOT need a SERM for Epistane for Christ's sake. You'd be lucky to gain more than 6lbs off it with perfect diet and routine. Its a relatively weak compound.
great post....your not too smart are you....do you run with scissors too???you may not need a serm...but than again...i could probably pull a hundred threads off am where some idiot ran epi without one and got into trouble....
 
FilipeBR

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great post....your not too smart are you....do you run with scissors too???you may not need a serm...but than again...i could probably pull a hundred threads off am where some idiot ran epi without one and got into trouble....
Hey, I don't know much about this...but what kind of " trouble" is that?
 

SilverRock

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I use to always use 6-oxo, but that was years ago. Now this go around I'll probably try nolva.
 

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