My most ambitious cycle yet

  1. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    My most ambitious cycle yet


    I wanted to get some feedback on a cycle that I'm working on. I think that this is a cycle I'm going to start in the next few weeks. I'm 200lb and have 10 years of gym training and have used several PH in the last 5 years. I just ended a 20mg/day M1T 2 week cycle and I am very impressed. I wanted to take it a step further with this cycle.

    Weeks 1-4

    20mg M1T (10mg tab, twice daily)
    664mg 4AD (332mg/4ml transdermal, twice daily)
    400mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, twice daily)

    Weeks 4-6

    664mg 4AD (332mg/4ml transdermal, twice daily)
    400mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, twice daily)
    20mg Nolvadex (20mg/ml oral, once daily)

    Weeks 6-8

    100mcg Clenbuterol (100mcg/.5ml once daily)
    20mg Nolvadex (20mg/ml oral, once daily)

    I like the idea of dropping the M1T at week 4 because that is when 1,4AD should really be kicking in and I don't want to extend my welcome with M1T. I've seen cycles where the user picks up some Nolva towards the very end of the cycle to get a jump start. I'm not sure on the exact dosing so I just went with 20mg daily. I might continue the Nolva and Clen for another week or two after week 8 but it all depends on how I'm doing at that point. The 4AD should keep me motivated through the whole cycle.
    I just wanted to get some feedback because this would be my most ambitious cycle yet. I'm really looking forward to trying out 1,4AD (my first with this one) and going on M1T again. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.

  2. New Member
    Redsky's Avatar
    Stats
    6'3"  169 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    69
    Rep Power
    169
    Level
    7
    Lv. Percent
    71.35%

    Now you've got me thinking for a second M1T cycle later this year. I'd say it looks good, but the gurus can inform us otherwise, if need be.
  3. Banned
    bellicose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    161
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    92.73%

    I would run the cycle longer, more like 12 weeks, and also bump up the dose of 1,4diol to at least 800mg ed. Then you could run the m1t the first four weeks and the last four weeks.
    That's just me though
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    Yeah I thought about making it longer, but I wanted to give this a try first. If I like it I'd come back for more!! Hmm, I'm still thinking of uping the 1,4AD but wasn't sure about. I think I'll settle somewhere in between 400mg-600mg/day for this cycle.
  5. New Member
    Greenguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Age
    61
    Posts
    296
    Rep Power
    296
    Level
    15
    Lv. Percent
    7.99%

    Quote Originally Posted by phatbody
    I wanted to get some feedback on a cycle that I'm working on. I think that this is a cycle I'm going to start in the next few weeks. I'm 200lb and have 10 years of gym training and have used several PH in the last 5 years. I just ended a 20mg/day M1T 2 week cycle and I am very impressed. I wanted to take it a step further with this cycle.

    Weeks 1-4

    20mg M1T (10mg tab, twice daily)
    664mg 4AD (332mg/4ml transdermal, twice daily)
    400mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, twice daily)
    How do you get your 4AD solution to hold 83mg per ml? that would equal about 20g of 4AD in 8oz of solvent. Usually the most I can put in is about 12g.

    What is the makeup of your solvent solution?

    Greenguy
  6. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,911
    Rep Power
    7019

    The new T-gels hold a MAX of 10g of powder per bottle (4oz.)
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  7. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    I thought that 10g/120ml = 83mg/ml. I'm going to support PN and "Build my own transdermal" with some 4oz T-gel and 10g of 4AD (I'll need 3 bottles). Shouldn't that yield 83mg/ml or 332mg/4ml? If I'm wrong please correct me.
  8. Banned
    lancelot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    559
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    19
    Lv. Percent
    32.35%

    aren't the new t-gels 2ml per pump? i know the old 8oz t-gels are.
  9. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    According to PN:

    T-Gel
    Bottle Size: 4oz (120ml)
    Serving Size: 2 mL (1 pump)
    Servings Per Container: 60
  10. Senior Member
    MarcusG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,223
    Rep Power
    756
    Level
    28
    Lv. Percent
    24.82%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Just use a small 6ml medicine dispenser and squirt into it. Then you'll never be wondering whether you are under/overdosing.
  11. New Member
    good_guye28's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Age
    45
    Posts
    297
    Rep Power
    290
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    10.5%

    using the 1,4andro, would that be taken with food?

    also what kind of gains are you expecting to get? 20lbs or more?

    im wanting to try a major bulking cycle also but i am not quite sure what to stack. i tried the methyl 1 and didnt like it much. i ordered transdermal homebrew ill be using 7.5 grams of 4ad and 2.5 of 1 test in a 4oz. bottle. does anyone suggest using the 1,4 andro with this cycle. i am planning on running this cycle for 6 weeks. any input would be apprectiated
  12. king of useless information!!!
    kmac6225's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    415
    Rep Power
    346
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    85.24%

    i agree with bellicose, your doses of 1,4 are a little low, 600mg is the lowest you should go
  13. ItriedtoripoffBobosonowIamgonehaveaniceday
    Guest
    ItriedtoripoffBobosonowIamgonehaveaniceday's Avatar

    I agree that the 1,4 add should be upped to any where between 600 to 900 mgs and that you should raise the Nolva post cycle to 40 mg to be safe. the next week dropp it to 20mg. My 2 cents.
  14. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    You guys are probably right with not going any lower than 600mg of 1,4AD. Probably better to go transdermal @ 600mg than orally. Hmm, Designer Supplements is testing Methyl 1,4diol with Sifu right now. It's due out at the end of the month. I might have to wait and see what his results were. Heh, if I could only convince Designer Supps to let me test a 6 week supply...
  15. Banned
    sifu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,395
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    15.15%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    I should be getting it any day now. I will be stacking it with M5AA. So stay tuned. I will post a cycle log.
  16. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    Ho yeah, I'd love to hear your results. Are you getting tabs or bulk powder?
  17. New Member
    good_guye28's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Age
    45
    Posts
    297
    Rep Power
    290
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    10.5%

    hey phatbody have you started your cycle yet? what kind of gains are you gettting?
  18. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    No, I'm starting at the beginning of February. I'm probably going to sub Pro-Sust for the Transdermal 4-AD. And change taking M1T to weeks 1-2 and 5-6.

    So like this

    Week 1-2
    20mg M1T (10mg tab, twice daily)
    800mg Pro-Sust (400mg/ml twice a week with and extra 400mg/ml for week 1)
    600mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, 3x daily)

    Week 3-4
    800mg Pro-Sust (400mg/ml twice a week)
    600mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, 3x daily)

    Weeks 5-6
    20mg M1T (10mg tab, twice daily)
    800mg Pro-Sust (400mg/ml twice a week with and extra 400mg/ml for week 1)
    600mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, 3x daily)

    Weeks 6-7
    100mcg Clenbuterol (100mcg/.5ml once daily)
    40mg Nolvadex (20mg/ml oral, once daily)

    Weeks 8-12 - maybe as far as 14
    20mg Nolvadex (20mg/ml oral, once daily)

    I realized that my gains on M1T fell sharply after week 1 on my last cycle so I decided that a 2 on 2 off 2 on would be better than a 4 week stint. It's a short cycle but like I said earlier, if I like it I'll come back for more. I got the M1T - 4AD stack so I could switch the oral 1,4AD to 5AA cyp if I wanted too. I plan on keeping (keeping is more important than gaining IMO) 10-15lbs of LBM.
    Last edited by phatbody; 01-11-2004 at 09:13 AM.
  19. New Member
    tatortodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    41
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    314
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    49.4%

    Designer's Pro-Sust is 300 mg/ml 4-AD cyp and 100 mg/ml 4-AD prop. I would think to get maximum benefit from the prop that EOD injections would be better than twice a week. ED injects might be even better, but that is a lot of injections.

    I used the blood level calculator from Anabolic Extreme Issue 46 and overlaid three 6 week cycles on the blood level chart.
    1. Your proposed cycle (Injections every 3.5 days throughout): week one 3 ml of Pro-sust, remaining weeks 2 ml of Pro-sust.
    2. EOD injections: first 4 EOD injections were 0.86 ml, remaining EOD injections were 0.57 ml
    3. ED injections: first 7 ED injections were 0.43 ml, remaining ED injections were 0.29 ml


    As you can see the ED injections had the least theoretical fluctuation, but the EOD injections had the highest peak and still relatively mild theoretical fluctuations.

    Another general comment is that I think need to rethink weeks 5-7 of your proposed cycle.

    ~Todd
  20. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,911
    Rep Power
    7019

    That is a really nice chart. It really shows the buildup effect over the first 2 weeks.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  21. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    ANABOLIC EXTREME! ho, man it's been awhile since I've been there. The few things I remember is the page took a loooong time to load on dial-up and Jason had a fight with T-Mag over an article on farting!! Goodtimes man.

    Hey that is a very nice chart. Thank you for posting it. I made a small typo, week 5-6 would be followed by week 7-8, not 6-7 and because I copy and paste, weeks 5-6 should not have an extra 400mg/ml a week, that was just part of the week 1 front load. I edited the my cycle below with the correct info, sorry. Is this what you were talking about when you said that I need to rethink weeks 5-7?

    Week 1 and 2
    20mg M1T (10mg tab, twice daily)
    800mg Pro-Sust (400mg/ml twice a week with and extra 400mg/ml for week 1)
    600mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, 3x daily)

    Week 3 and 4
    800mg Pro-Sust (400mg/ml twice a week)
    600mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, 3x daily)

    Weeks 5 and 6
    20mg M1T (10mg tab, twice daily)
    800mg Pro-Sust (400mg/ml twice a week)
    600mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, 3x daily)

    Weeks 7 and 8
    100mcg Clenbuterol (100mcg/.5ml once daily, might continue for a few more weeks)
    40mg Nolvadex (20mg/ml oral, once daily)

    Weeks 9 thru 12 - maybe as far as 14
    20mg Nolvadex (20mg/ml oral, once daily)

    Also I see that pinning EOD is a smoother ride than 2x a week, but the
    fluctuations only seem to be about 15-25mg for the first two days in weeks 3-6. The range in that period is 600-750mg so would these fluctuations make that much of a difference? It's just that I only pinned one other time, it was ok but the thought of going 6 straight weeks of EOD seems daunting to me. I couldn't deal with an ED shot.
  22. New Member
    tatortodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    41
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    314
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    49.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by phatbody
    Is this what you were talking about when you said that I need to rethink weeks 5-7?
    Yes, that is much better. I'll make a few suggestions for your consideration later in post.

    Quote Originally Posted by phatbody
    Also I see that pinning EOD is a smoother ride than 2x a week, but the fluctuations only seem to be about 15-25mg for the first two days in weeks 3-6. The range in that period is 600-750mg so would these fluctuations make that much of a difference? It's just that I only pinned one other time, it was ok but the thought of going 6 straight weeks of EOD seems daunting to me. I couldn't deal with an ED shot.
    Good eyes, the max day to day fluctuation was theoretically 26. I have no idea if it's going to make a difference in your gains, how you feel, etc. I just thought it was worth bringing up.

    How about this for a cycle?
    Week 1: 1200 mg Pro-Sust. Injection schedule up to you.
    Weeks 2-6: 800 mg Pro-Sust. Injection schedule up to you.
    *changes for orals and PCT below*
    Weeks 2-7: 600mg 1,4AD (200mg caps, 3x daily)
    Weeks 2 & 3: 20mg M1T (10mg tab, twice daily)
    Weeks 6 & 7: 20mg M1T (10mg tab, twice daily)
    Weeks 8-11 (maybe 12): Taper Nolvadex from 40mg to 30mg to 20mg to 10mg as you gauge the progress of your recovery
    Weeks 8 & 9: 100mcg Clenbuterol

    This way you'd let the 4-AD have a fairly nice level before introducing the orals, and it might reduce sides of M1T. Also, you would have a fairly nice level of 4-AD for your last week of orals, and it's probably a better post cycle because your first dose of Nolva would be in the presence of a lower level hormones.

    ~Todd
  23. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    I think you just put the final tweak in the cycle. After seeing the graph and thinking about it I was wondering if there should be a week of just Pro-Sust to bring the levels up. I need wonder no more as you answered the question. I really like how this cycle shaped up. Actually the last think would be to decide whether or not to keep the 1,4AD at 600mg or bump it to 800mg. It might end up being a judgment call during the cycle.
  24. Banned
    witchdawg7's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  242 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Age
    44
    Posts
    137
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    10
    Lv. Percent
    51.02%

    Todd,
    What about using 4AD Trans on the non injection days to help maintain the levels in your system?
    Jeremy
  25. New Member
    good_guye28's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Age
    45
    Posts
    297
    Rep Power
    290
    Level
    17
    Lv. Percent
    10.5%

    this may be a dumb question but are you using this as a cutting cycle. i have read that the 1,4 andro is appetite suppressing so i was figuring that is what you were using this for.

    does anyone use the 1,4 andro for bulking also?????
  26. Banned
    sifu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,395
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    15.15%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    From what I understood 1,4 activates appetite. As mor M1,4ADD it is only for bulking. It converts to the same compound as Dbol.

    You could use the regular for bulking, but I don't know anyone that has. But I am sure that people have done it.
  27. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    You know I never liked the term bulk. Sounds like I'm trying to get fat. Heh heh, I always say hulk. Like, "I'm going through my HULKing up phase" or, "I'm gonna HULK up on this cycle." It just sounds more promising.



    Hey Sifu, how's that M1,4AD working for you? ...Hmmm, I just read the thread and it sounds great. None for me thought, not on for a cycle like this. Have you taken 1,4AD before? How would you compare it to M1,4AD?



    I don't think that adding a trans 4-AD would help with Pro-Sust on 2x week. I think you'd run into the opposite problem with the levels now spiking instead of dropping.
  28. Banned
    sifu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,395
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    29
    Lv. Percent
    15.15%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    They aren't even close in the nature of effects for me. Night and ay. Kindo of like the saying "apples and oranges"
  29. New Member
    tatortodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    41
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    314
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    49.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by witchdawg7
    Todd,
    What about using 4AD Trans on the non injection days to help maintain the levels in your system?
    Jeremy
    Quote Originally Posted by phatbody
    I don't think that adding a trans 4-AD would help with Pro-Sust on 2x week. I think you'd run into the opposite problem with the levels now spiking instead of dropping.
    My initial thought was to not respond because I thought that Phatbody was right about adding 4-AD transdermal on non-injection days would cause more spiking. However, I decided to plug it into the blood level calculator assuming somebody was applying 250 ml per day of 4-AD in a transdermal with a 35% absorption rate. After going through a couple of iterations I could not figure out a scheme that leveled out the blood levels. Attached is an example of one of the iterations showing the added spiking by applying the 4-AD transdermal 2 days and 2.5 days after Pro-Sust injection to make up for the Prop.

    ~Todd
  30. New Member
    phatbody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    178
    Rep Power
    223
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    62.23%

    Yikes! I hope you meant 250mg because I don't think I have enough skin to cover 250ml!! Nah I know you meant mg, but I guess the only way you could really smooth out those spikes would be to do something like a 100mg of 4AD orally on days when the prop starts to drop. Isn't the absorption rate something like 15%? That would mean about 15mg is used and since the deviation is only 26mg, it could fill in those spikes.

    Personally I'm going to stick with the above cycle. I don't see any problem with the 26mg drop during the week. I figure that my levels are going to be so high that I won't really notice the slight drop. Time will tell of course. My start date is February 2nd and I'll keep a cycle log on the cycle section for those that are interested.
  31. New Member
    tatortodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    41
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    314
    Level
    16
    Lv. Percent
    49.4%

    Quote Originally Posted by phatbody
    Yikes! I hope you meant 250mg because I don't think I have enough skin to cover 250ml!! Nah I know you meant mg, but I guess the only way you could really smooth out those spikes would be to do something like a 100mg of 4AD orally on days when the prop starts to drop. Isn't the absorption rate something like 15%? That would mean about 15mg is used and since the deviation is only 26mg, it could fill in those spikes.
    LOL, definitely meant 250 mg. I built the dosing schedule assuming somebody would do the build your own transdermal from PN, and would put 7.5g in there and do 1 squirt.

    Oral absorption is like 5% or 6% with the conversion to target hormone being 15% to 16%. The conversion to target hormone will be the same whether you 're taking pills, doing transdermal, or injecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by phatbody
    Personally I'm going to stick with the above cycle. I don't see any problem with the 26mg drop during the week. I figure that my levels are going to be so high that I won't really notice the slight drop. Time will tell of course. My start date is February 2nd and I'll keep a cycle log on the cycle section for those that are interested.
    We're thinking along the same lines. Basically, I put the chart together for two reasons:
    • Mental masturbation (ie wanted to make sure my instincts were right)
    • to further emphasize that if the fluctuation in levels from the 2x week injections were having an adverse affect then more frequent injections were the solution as opposed to applying a transdermal.


    Good luck with your cycle.

    ~Todd
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Most ambitious cycle yet, please critique.
    By R1187 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-19-2012, 04:04 PM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-15-2012, 05:22 PM
  3. Replies: 31
    Last Post: 04-12-2005, 03:53 PM
  4. Its that time again; my first real cycle
    By Bean in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 04-25-2003, 05:26 PM
  5. My T1-PRO Cycle
    By Sanosuke in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-12-2002, 05:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in