1-t/havoc failed cycle

[jsp0785]

ok so i ran both of these the 1-t will be done in a few days and the month of havoc ended last week. I say it failed which i thought it would and i will never run another methylated steroid ever again. gains are great strength gains were phenominal but i've only gained about 5lbs. the liver toxicity kills my appetite. i was up almost 10lbs and dropped down 5 when the 3rd week of havoc started kicking in is when i lose my appetite.

here's my question. my pct consists of sustain alpha, clomid, for AI's along with toco 8 and the endo amp(bought the mass stack) i'm also throwing in prime and basic creatine mono and some testofen i have laying around for libido. should i start all of these now with a week to go? figured i should do this because it takes a few weeks for creatine and the prime to kick in that way i'm in full swing with those when the cycle is over. should i start the clomid now too or save that?

 

[nosnmiveins]

what did ur diet look like?

wait til the cycle is over to begin PCT

 

[jsp0785]

what did ur diet look like?

wait til the cycle is over to begin PCT

i don't have the exact with me but it's was a 10lbs mass gain diet from muscle and fitness. about 3,900 cals a day. the problem wasn't the diet it was me not being able to eat it. methylated roids kill my appetite just when the gains start getting good. i took a chance on it not happening again this time but i was wrong. it gets so bad like just thinking about drinking a protein shake in the morning made me sick to my stomach. let a lone eating eggs or oats.

 

[Jayhawkk]

ok so i ran both of these the 1-t will be done in a few days and the month of havoc ended last week. I say it failed which i thought it would and i will never run another methylated steroid ever again. gains are great strength gains were phenominal but i've only gained about 5lbs. the liver toxicity kills my appetite. i was up almost 10lbs and dropped down 5 when the 3rd week of havoc started kicking in is when i lose my appetite.

I'm not quite following your definition of failed... It seems the blame is to be placed on your for not continuing your diet properly over the product not giving you an appetite. The product is designed to produce strength and muscle gains which you say you got. If appetite is the issue there are a couple of methods. One is to eat even if you don't feel like it and the other is to try a product designed to stimulate appetite. there are several of them out there readily available. i also question your statement that liver toxicity is what caused the appetite suppression. Are these back up by feelings of a loss of appetite or from bloodwork showing elevated liver enzymes?

 

[jsp0785]

i did gain a good amount of strength and leaned up a bit which wasn't a bad thing cause i was gettin a little chunky

 

[nosnmiveins]

i realized a while ago that i need to eat whether i want to or not if i want to grow. u have to basically train urself to forcefeed....but after a while its just a habbit

 

[Jayhawkk]

It's the same thing when it comes to lifting. Sometimes you just don't feel like it and have to drag your ass in there to do it. Steroids don't build muscle, lifting does.

 

[jsp0785]

I'm not quite following your definition of failed... It seems the blame is to be placed on your for not continuing your diet properly over the product not giving you an appetite. The product is designed to produce strength and muscle gains which you say you got. If appetite is the issue there are a couple of methods. One is to eat even if you don't feel like it and the other is to try a product designed to stimulate appetite. there are several of them out there readily available. i also question your statement that liver toxicity is what caused the appetite suppression. Are these back up by feelings of a loss of appetite or from bloodwork showing elevated liver enzymes?

i meant failed because i didn't gain as much as i was expecting. i didn't mean the product failed i mean they cycled failed my expectations. it was going great but i've read that methylated steroids can kill your appetite because of the toxicity.... maybe i'm wrong. i tried controlled labs black whole to no avail it happens everytime i take a methylated roid. it's not only the feeling of a loss of appetite but physically not being able to eat enough.

 

[futurepilot]

I say it failed which i thought it would

I think thats what they call a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Trauma1]

ok so i ran both of these the 1-t will be done in a few days and the month of havoc ended last week. I say it failed which i thought it would and i will never run another methylated steroid ever again. gains are great strength gains were phenominal but i've only gained about 5lbs. the liver toxicity kills my appetite. i was up almost 10lbs and dropped down 5 when the 3rd week of havoc started kicking in is when i lose my appetite.

here's my question. my pct consists of sustain alpha, clomid, for AI's along with toco 8 and the endo amp(bought the mass stack) i'm also throwing in prime and basic creatine mono and some testofen i have laying around for libido. should i start all of these now with a week to go? figured i should do this because it takes a few weeks for creatine and the prime to kick in that way i'm in full swing with those when the cycle is over. should i start the clomid now too or save that?

I'm not sure why you're calling this a failed cycle either? What doses did you run the Havoc and 1-T at? Did you have blood work done to correlate evidence of a significant hepatic stress? Were you using any type of cycle support?

Lethargy and loss of appetite can result during an oral methylated cycle. Many times that can be related to the dose though. Sometimes you have to force yourself to eat even when you don't want to. There are quite a few good supplements on the market that can help stimulate an appetite. Lack of optimal gains/results on a cycle is almost always the direct result of dietary factors.

You can start the Sustain Alpha, EndoAmp, and Toco-8 at this point though. I'd hold off on the clomid until you've completed the cycle.

 

[jsp0785]

I think thats what they call a self fulfilling prophecy.

no it was working great until my appetite dissapeared. i'm still happy with the results but i know i could have got a lot more out of it

 

[Jayhawkk]

I understand now. It was a failure due to the fact you couldn't gain as much as you know you could have if you were able to eat more. Dose can play a huge part in appetite and you literally have to force yourself to eat. Sometimes, taking fiber can help. A lot of people don't take enough water and don't take in enough fiber when on cycle and that can lead to a constant bloated feeling.

 

[jsp0785]

I'm not sure why you're calling this a failed cycle either? What doses did you run the Havoc and 1-T at? Did you have blood work done to correlate evidence of a significant hepatic stress? Were you using any type of cycle support?

Lethargy and loss of appetite can result during an oral methylated cycle. Many times that can be related to the dose though. Sometimes you have to force yourself to eat even when you don't want to. There are quite a few good supplements on the market that can help stimulate an appetite.

You can start the Sustain Alpha, EndoAmp, and Toco-8 at this point though. I'd hold off on the clomid until you've completed the cycle.

i don't mean failed because of the product it was great and will probably run it again but not with the havoc. it's hard to eat when the thought of food makes u wanna throw up. it was failed because i didn't get as much as i could have out of it. when i wake up i have a protein shake with 2 scoops whey and 2 slices white bread with tablespoon of jelly, then after showering and getting around i'd have 6 eggs with only 3 yolk and 1 cup oatmeal. but when i was having my hunger issues i'd be full from the protein and bread all the way up until lunch time and couldn't force myself to eat more

 

[jsp0785]

I understand now. It was a failure due to the fact you couldn't gain as much as you know you could have if you were able to eat more. Dose can play a huge part in appetite and you literally have to force yourself to eat. Sometimes, taking fiber can help. A lot of people don't take enough water and don't take in enough fiber when on cycle and that can lead to a constant bloated feeling.

that's basically what it was. my stomach felt bloated all the time. when i tried drinking water it made it worse

 

[jsp0785]

stuff like black hole and things like that will work for me but after maybe 2 weeks it stops working. same thing happens with creatine for me too

 

[Jayhawkk]

check on the fiber thing if you have the chance. If you're not taking enough in then just pick up a bottle of metamucil and mix it with orange juice or something and see if you start feeling better after a week or two.

 

[jsp0785]

check on the fiber thing if you have the chance. If you're not taking enough in then just pick up a bottle of metamucil and mix it with orange juice or something and see if you start feeling better after a week or two.

thanks i'll give it a shot. i feel a lot better since i stopped the havoc though. it's weird because when i ran m1t before i felt great and now something as mild as havoc gives me issues

 

[pool_shark]

Forcing yourself to eat is easier said than done for some people.
If I try forcing myself to eat I end up throwing it up, that's worse than just eating what I can.

Everyone is different, so force feeding is not the correct approach for everyone.

 

[jsp0785]

Forcing yourself to eat is easier said than done for some people.
If I try forcing myself to eat I end up throwing it up, that's worse than just eating what I can.

Everyone is different, so force feeding is not the correct approach for everyone.

yea doesn't work for me when i'm on cycle. thinking about a protein shake on the ride home from the gym was enough to make me sick

 

[steel1970]

I still think too many people are depending on supplements and anabolics to do the work for them. Nutrition and training are the two things that will always yield the best results. If you"re eating a good amount of food and training hard, you will see results regardless of what else you are taking. For years I had the problem of not eating enough. Thing is, I could out eat just about anyone that I knew for one meal, I just wasn't consistent enough with the food. Sometimes it takes alot of self reflection to find out where the problem really lies. At 38, I feel like I have been bulking for the past 20 years, but if I look back over that time, there were alot of times when I wasn't doing the meals right. I have been as heavy as 265 at 6"3" and I am currently at around 240, with some fat to lose. Food is the most anabolic thing there is. Never underestimate the importance of it.

 

[steel1970]

Also, remember that any anabolic will do virtually nothing if the atmosphere for gaining is not there. By this I mean calories and stimulus, or food and training. We can do remarkable things with our bodies with the right amount of chemistry knowledge. But the only things that need to remain constant are food and training. All the other stuff will just make gains that much greater when thrown into the mix. My first cycle was 250mg of test e per week, by itself. I got 45 lbs off that cycle which is not uncommon for someones first, even at that low dose. But I ate at least 5000-6000 cals a day the whole entire cycle. It is the one time that I can say that I didn't miss a meal for 8 weeks!! Years later, I was doing up to 1000mgs a week of test e, and other stuff as well, never yielding great results, simply because I wasn't being as careful with the food intake. My life was in a rush, and I was in a hurry all the time, had no time to cook. If I averaged 3000 cals I was lucky. Sometimes you need to take extreme measures if you want extreme results. Force feed if you can, otherwise just gradually increase your cals over time. If methylated stuff kills your appetite, which is a problem I have never had, then switch to something else if you need to. But a cycle with no calories is not much of a cycle at all.

 

[jsp0785]

I still think too many people are depending on supplements and anabolics to do the work for them. Nutrition and training are the two things that will always yield the best results. If you"re eating a good amount of food and training hard, you will see results regardless of what else you are taking. For years I had the problem of not eating enough. Thing is, I could out eat just about anyone that I knew for one meal, I just wasn't consistent enough with the food. Sometimes it takes alot of self reflection to find out where the problem really lies. At 38, I feel like I have been bulking for the past 20 years, but if I look back over that time, there were alot of times when I wasn't doing the meals right. I have been as heavy as 265 at 6"3" and I am currently at around 240, with some fat to lose. Food is the most anabolic thing there is. Never underestimate the importance of it.

i'm not at all. i'm saying i didn't get the desired results because i couldn't eat. i know diet is like 90% of it with training being about another 8% . with being on steroids u can get away with slacking on ur diet more than if u weren't.

 

[jsp0785]

Also, remember that any anabolic will do virtually nothing if the atmosphere for gaining is not there. By this I mean calories and stimulus, or food and training. We can do remarkable things with our bodies with the right amount of chemistry knowledge. But the only things that need to remain constant are food and training. All the other stuff will just make gains that much greater when thrown into the mix. My first cycle was 250mg of test e per week, by itself. I got 45 lbs off that cycle which is not uncommon for someones first, even at that low dose. But I ate at least 5000-6000 cals a day the whole entire cycle. It is the one time that I can say that I didn't miss a meal for 8 weeks!! Years later, I was doing up to 1000mgs a week of test e, and other stuff as well, never yielding great results, simply because I wasn't being as careful with the food intake. My life was in a rush, and I was in a hurry all the time, had no time to cook. If I averaged 3000 cals I was lucky. Sometimes you need to take extreme measures if you want extreme results. Force feed if you can, otherwise just gradually increase your cals over time. If methylated stuff kills your appetite, which is a problem I have never had, then switch to something else if you need to. But a cycle with no calories is not much of a cycle at all.

i was eating just not 6 times a day like i wanted too. i was eating at least 3 meals a day.

 

[steel1970]

Didn't mean to offend, just trying to stress the importance of food. I have been in this game awhile, and if I can help anyone learn by looking at my past mistakes, that will make me very happy. I have made so many critical errors over the years, that if I looked back at my wasted time, effort and money, I would probably get sick!! Good luck in your quest for size.

 

[pool_shark]

Didn't mean to offend, just trying to stress the importance of food. I have been in this game awhile, and if I can help anyone learn by looking at my past mistakes, that will make me very happy. I have made so many critical errors over the years, that if I looked back at my wasted time, effort and money, I would probably get sick!! Good luck in your quest for size.

Eating is understood, it's the force feeding I don't agree with.

I simply cannot eat a ton of food, it just won't fit. That's why I take weight gainer shakes 600+ calories per shake 2-3 shakes per day (when I can).

The other day at the bar I ordered the grilled chicken platter. This time it came with 3 chicken breasts instead of the usual 2, plus rice. 2 of the breasts were pretty big and one was small. The only way I could get all 3 pieces down was to not eat the rice and I was completely full, to the point of a stomach ache.

 

[jsp0785]

Eating is understood, it's the force feeding I don't agree with.

I simply cannot eat a ton of food, it just won't fit. That's why I take weight gainer shakes 600+ calories per shake 2-3 shakes per day (when I can).

The other day at the bar I ordered the grilled chicken platter. This time it came with 3 chicken breasts instead of the usual 2, plus rice. 2 of the breasts were pretty big and one was small. The only way I could get all 3 pieces down was to not eat the rice and I was completely full, to the point of a stomach ache.

don't buy the weight gainer shakes they're terrible for u. make ur own they taste better and are much cheaper

 

[Trauma1]

Forcing yourself to eat is easier said than done for some people.
If I try forcing myself to eat I end up throwing it up, that's worse than just eating what I can.

Everyone is different, so force feeding is not the correct approach for everyone.

I think you took that too literal. I completely understand that some people have issues with taking in food at times. Frequent smaller meals can equally get the job done over the course of the day. If you're not taking in the necessary calories for anabolism to take place, you're not going to grow, period.

There are many different options food/supplement-wise that can help get this done; even for those that have a hard time in eating what's required to grow. (i.e.) -The presence or significance of dietary fats alone can/will prolong the feeling of satiety and delay gastric emptying between meals.

 

[pool_shark]

don't buy the weight gainer shakes they're terrible for u. make ur own they taste better and are much cheaper

Thanks, but I've made my own using peanut butter and ON whey. After a while the peanut butter flavor became too over powering.

I've been taking real gains. The chocolate tastes great, only has 5 grams of sugar 610 calories 52 grams of protein.

I also tried the protein with ground oats, I'm not liking that much at all.

 

[pool_shark]

I think you took that too literal. I completely understand that some people have issues with taking in food at times. Frequent smaller meals can equally get the job done over the course of the day. If you're not taking in the necessary calories for anabolism to take place, you're not going to grow, period.

There are many different options food/supplement-wise that can help get this done; even for those that have a hard time in eating what's required to grow. (i.e.) -The presence or significance of dietary fats alone can/will prolong the feeling of satiety and delay gastric emptying between meals.

Maybe I did take it too literally with regard to what some people here are saying, but I have actually had a person argue with me that force feeding myself will not make me sick.

Yes, the person actually argued with me about how MY body would react.

 

[Trauma1]

Maybe I did take it too literally with regard to what some people here are saying, but I have actually had a person argue with me that force feeding myself will not make me sick.

Yes, the person actually argued with me about how MY body would react.

I agree, that is crazy. That's why a place like AM is so great. There are people with the same type of issues at hand; helpful information can be spread abroad to assist those in need to better themselves.

 

[jsp0785]

Thanks, but I've made my own using peanut butter and ON whey. After a while the peanut butter flavor became too over powering.

I've been taking real gains. The chocolate tastes great, only has 5 grams of sugar 610 calories 52 grams of protein.

I also tried the protein with ground oats, I'm not liking that much at all.

cup of oats, cup and a half whole milk 2 scoops chocolate whey, 1 banana and 2 tablespoons peanutbutter. it's delicious and close to 1,000 cals

 

[jsp0785]

on the issue of appetite, i've tried digestive enzymes, ginger root(worked the best so far) and black hole. who has used grub on and is it really that good?

 

[steel1970]

I understand that some people cannot eat alot. The shakes come in handy for this, and even make up 3 of my meals per day. My shakes are simply whey protein, ground up oats and some 2% milk and a little peanut butter. I omit the oats and pb at bedtime and sub in some lowfat cottage cheese, which grosses out my wife and kids. The shakes taste great, and depending on the quantities, they get me from 600-800 cals per shake, and surprisingly, they don't leave me feeling over full. This leaves room for 2 good sized meals for lunch and dinner. I know I am not alone in this fact, but mornings for me are kinda tuff, cause although I wake up rather hungry, I cannot stomach certain foods until I am fully awake. I usually just have some scrambled eggs and oatmeal and a glass of milk. This gets me about 500-600 cals, and ensures that I am not wearing my breakfast by eating a little smaller earlier in the day. By 9:30 am I am starving and in need of my first shake, which my employees can't understand how I drink it, but it tastes great to me.

 

[steel1970]

As far as force feeding, I know I have made myself sick in the past. That is why you should gradually raise cals over time, and before you know it, you are taking in what you need. I also feel that getting sick while force feeding is mostly mental, at least for me. Sometimes if you don't feel like eating, you put stress on yourself about it and then it becomes a big deal. Look at it as a means to an end, and eat smaller meals and soon enough you will be eating alot.

 

[steel1970]

I am sure Pool Shark would agree with me that getting cals is easier now than it has ever been, given the good tasting and nutrient dense products out there now. We are about the same age. Does anyone remember the old weight gain powders and protein powders? You had to literally hold your nose while chugging them just to avoid projectile vomitting. We used to mix in raw eggs and chocolate syrup like crazy to mask the taste. Thank God for the advancement of protein powders!!

 

[jsp0785]

do u try eating smaller meals more often? throwing down over 800 cals at a time can really slow down the digestive process

 

[suncloud]

ok so i ran both of these the 1-t will be done in a few days and the month of havoc ended last week. I say it failed which i thought it would and i will never run another methylated steroid ever again. gains are great strength gains were phenominal but i've only gained about 5lbs. the liver toxicity kills my appetite. i was up almost 10lbs and dropped down 5 when the 3rd week of havoc started kicking in is when i lose my appetite.

here's my question. my pct consists of sustain alpha, clomid, for AI's along with toco 8 and the endo amp(bought the mass stack) i'm also throwing in prime and basic creatine mono and some testofen i have laying around for libido. should i start all of these now with a week to go? figured i should do this because it takes a few weeks for creatine and the prime to kick in that way i'm in full swing with those when the cycle is over. should i start the clomid now too or save that?

the methyls can kill your appetite - it happens. 1-T should have counteracted that, as the non methyls can increase your appetite. you need to find caloric dense food though if you're just not hitting the calories you want, and taking them as snacks when possible. 1 tbsp of peanut butter is 90 calories, and i'm sure you can snack on that in between 3-4 meals - that's an easy way to increase calories without filling you up. take in another 3-4 tbsp before bed and you've already hit 600 more calories per day. honestly i don't know what else to say other than FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK.

 

[jsp0785]

the methyls can kill your appetite - it happens. 1-T should have counteracted that, as the non methyls can increase your appetite. you need to find caloric dense food though if you're just not hitting the calories you want, and taking them as snacks when possible. 1 tbsp of peanut butter is 90 calories, and i'm sure you can snack on that in between 3-4 meals - that's an easy way to increase calories without filling you up. take in another 3-4 tbsp before bed and you've already hit 600 more calories per day. honestly i don't know what else to say other than FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK.

well i've learned i'm gonna stay away from methylated stuff. really want to run the 1-tren but i already had purchased the 1-t when the 1-tren was announced

 

[pool_shark]

cup of oats, cup and a half whole milk 2 scoops chocolate whey, 1 banana and 2 tablespoons peanutbutter. it's delicious and close to 1,000 cals

I've done all that except the banana, but again, after a while the peanut butter flavor became too much. Maybe it was because I was using vanilla protein. The peanut butter might not be able to over power the chocolate.
I'll try again with chocolate.

Thanks.

 

[pool_shark]

I am sure Pool Shark would agree with me that getting cals is easier now than it has ever been, given the good tasting and nutrient dense products out there now. We are about the same age. Does anyone remember the old weight gain powders and protein powders? You had to literally hold your nose while chugging them just to avoid projectile vomitting. We used to mix in raw eggs and chocolate syrup like crazy to mask the taste. Thank God for the advancement of protein powders!!

I do agree that the newer powders make it much easier to get calories. Back in the day you had to use a blender to mix that crap or it wouldn't mix. You could put strawberries, bananas, ice cream, anything you wanted in with it and it still tasted like spoiled dirt.

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I've done all that except the banana, but again, after a while the peanut butter flavor became too much. Maybe it was because I was using vanilla protein. The peanut butter might not be able to over power the chocolate.
I'll try again with chocolate.

Thanks.

You ever try almond butter? It is MUCH more subtle, and goes very well in shakes.. I actually get sick of PB myself, but almond butter i doubt i would ever get sick of.

EVOO, macadamia nut oil, etc all are good additions to shakes as well. You can easily add 1-2tbsp of oil to a shake.

 

[steel1970]

I've never even heard of almond butter.lol. JSP, as far as the smaller meals go, you can eat smaller meals, but if you keep your meals at say 400 cals per meal, and you are trying to hit say 4000 cals a day, do you have time to eat 10 times in a day? Yes, a larger meal is gonna take longer to digest, and even the amounts of c/f/p is gonna be a factor in that. You could take some digestive enzymes to help a little with this, but the process takes the time it needs. I have been eating probably 600-700 cals a meal for as long as I can remember, for 6 times a day most of the time. (I have trained in spurts throughout the last 5 years due to a serious back injury and a bunch of little nagging injuries too). I am not as dedicated as I used to be, so I may only get in 5 once in a while. Another reply said to up the fiber to keep things moving. That is a great idea, and essential at the very least. You want to keep things going. As far as 1000 cal shakes and meals go, it has been a long time since I have eaten like that, and probably a good thing, cause I would be big as a house, and not in a good way.

 

[steel1970]

Also, if your blood is in line and blood pressure and such and you aren't old like me, and you don't object to eating "bad" a few times a week, you can always pound down a few McD's double burgers to up the calories. There is alot of fat and sodium in there, but also quite a bit of protein, and I don't think it will hurt anybody if you be smart and do it in moderation. I wouldn't do it every day, cause it will catch up to you quick, but when I was in my 20's this was my daily lunch routine during the work week. And just so you know, my total cholesterol was 145 when I increased my life insurance a year ago

 

[mooch2321]

so lots of good info here about shakes and eating....but the bottom line is if you want it bad enough you will find a way....pool shark it doesnt seem like growing is your #1 priority (and there is nothing wrong with that), but if it were you would find a way to get your 5000 cals a day....or whatever you need to grow....and op...dont complain about wasted cycles....learn from them...you obviously know that orals shut down your appetite after a few weeks and you say black hole works for two weeks for you...so with that knowledge in hand...i would start running black hole 2 weeks after my cycle started...bam ....you just ran a four week cycle eating big the whole time....i dont want to hear the labor pains bro....i just want to see the baby....make it happen....

 

[steel1970]

Well put. That's kinda what I've been trying to say, but I'm new on this board and was trying to be polite so as not to rub anyone the wrong way. Mooch, I am somewhat new to the ph/ps craze, I have always in the past just run real gear. I have been reading alot on the Superdrol clones and was thinking of running a cycle. Do you have any experience with this product, and if so, what is your opinion on dosing for a guy who is my size? We are close in weight, but I would assume you are much thicker than me since I am taller.

 

[searl12]

thanks i'll give it a shot. i feel a lot better since i stopped the havoc though. it's weird because when i ran m1t before i felt great and now something as mild as havoc gives me issues

M1T has done the same thing to me dude. Nothing has ever been the same since it. What a terrible product! I could feel my liver throbbing, somewhat of an enlarged feeling when I was on only 10 mg a day!

One of the biggest regrets I have is using M1Ts, I really believe I did some damage, who knows maybe you have as well.

Just my.02 some people swear by M1T, was never worth the sides in my opinion.

 

[pool_shark]

You ever try almond butter? It is MUCH more subtle, and goes very well in shakes.. I actually get sick of PB myself, but almond butter i doubt i would ever get sick of.

EVOO, macadamia nut oil, etc all are good additions to shakes as well. You can easily add 1-2tbsp of oil to a shake.

Nope, never tried it. I'll look into it.

 

[pool_shark]

so lots of good info here about shakes and eating....but the bottom line is if you want it bad enough you will find a way....pool shark it doesnt seem like growing is your #1 priority (and there is nothing wrong with that), but if it were you would find a way to get your 5000 cals a day....or whatever you need to grow....and op...dont complain about wasted cycles....learn from them...you obviously know that orals shut down your appetite after a few weeks and you say black hole works for two weeks for you...so with that knowledge in hand...i would start running black hole 2 weeks after my cycle started...bam ....you just ran a four week cycle eating big the whole time....i dont want to hear the labor pains bro....i just want to see the baby....make it happen....

There no way I could get 5000 calories in a day without fast food or other junk.
I did eat more when I was taking M-stak, that increased my appetite but I still don't think I was even close to approaching 5000.

 

[mooch2321]

Well put. That's kinda what I've been trying to say, but I'm new on this board and was trying to be polite so as not to rub anyone the wrong way. Mooch, I am somewhat new to the ph/ps craze, I have always in the past just run real gear. I have been reading alot on the Superdrol clones and was thinking of running a cycle. Do you have any experience with this product, and if so, what is your opinion on dosing for a guy who is my size? We are close in weight, but I would assume you are much thicker than me since I am taller.

i respect superdrol for what it is.....its not really my bag right now....but it can be a great product....i think most people run it too long and too high tho....if i were gonna do it....id run a three weeker....10/20/30...my training partner ran this dosing at my advice and put on 15 lbs in 3 weeks with little to no sides....and he was 6'3 230 at the time with lots of aas experience....

 

[Frank Reynolds]

Nope, never tried it. I'll look into it.

Do it... It tastes bomb in vanilla..lol

I agree with mooch.. Additionally it is a never ending battle.. The calorie demands just get greater and greater. If you are having problems eating at this weight, what do you think its going to be like when your eating to maintain/grow with an additional 20+lbs of mass.