Promagnon 25 log

[17amethyl]

After searching some time for a "wet" non-methyl, non-progestin ph/os to stack promagnon with, I decided the options in this department were lacking so I've decided to just run it solo.

Cycle: Promagnon 25
Days 1-12: 50mg
Days 13-45: 75mg
So about a 6 week cycle

Have used PM 25 as well as other oral compounds with success.

PCT:
Week 1: 20 mg Nolvadex
Week 2: 20 mg Nolvadex & Activate Xtreme 4 pills
Week 3: 20 mg Nolvadex & Activate Xtreme 4 pills
Week 4: 20 mg Nolvadex & Activate Xtreme 5 pills
(AX will overlap actual PCT a week or so, will continue at 5 pills)
- Activate may be started a week later if I still feel somewhat shut down...shouldn't be an issue though
-Have some Universal Storm, NOW Beta-Alanine, & Animal Pump I may use to accompany in PCT to help retain gains, but I havn't had trouble with much loss on pct for PM25.

Cycle support includes:
Fish Oils
Flaxseed Oils
Joint Support Complex
Milk Thistle
Hawthorne Berry
DHEA (to help with libido crash...which has happened to me before on PM in the later weeks)
SERM on hand (Nolvadex) in case of gyno flare
- Of course, your basic protein, ON will be used

Basic Info:
195lbs
5'10
Bench-315x2
Deadlift-495x1
Squat-365x2

Goals:
this is where im being a little creative...this compound is typically used for a cut, and as my experience running it before- it does so with excellent results...will keep caloric intake high, 5000+...not too out of the ordinary for my diet, but i would prefer a lean bulk out of this rather than a simple recomp...great in terms of strength, so i hope to break some of my personal goals as well especially in the big 3 lifts

lets hope lethargy and gyno dont :arg: as they did the last time i ran this :wiggle::wiggle:

 

[Hank Vangut]

3-ad is a slightly wetter non methyl.

 

[17amethyl]

yeah...thanks hank...i narrowed it down to 3ad, bold, and furaz...bold and furaz are too dry and the combo on the joints would be annoying...3ad is the only ph i found that fits the profile, but for the $ 3ad costs, i just havnt seen any reviews/heard experiences that would make it worth the investment in my mind

 

[nosnmiveins]

3-AD is a waste of money. u can stack basically anything with a the promag

 

[nickrut]

Isnt 4 weeks of promag a very short cycle for that compound? I know its comparable to hdrol which usually requires 5-6 weeks to be an effective cycle...

 

[Lean1038]

Isnt 4 weeks of promag a very short cycle for that compound? I know its comparable to hdrol which usually requires 5-6 weeks to be an effective cycle...

Yes. 75mg for 40 days is ideal. I just started this yesterday with 500mg of Furazadrol.

I've never had any issues with my joints on a PH cycle and have run Trenadrol, H Drol, AND Fura simultaneously before. Those issues are overrated for most.

 

[soma]

What about PP's topical Dermacrine - prohormone? or even the 1-T topical they have--seems to make some hold h20.

 

[17amethyl]

Chest/Abs Day 1

might just make that order for furaz tonight then...what do you think, bold or furaz? can't decide

anyhow, did chest/abs today, nothing out of the ordinary as is just day 1, but just conscious that i was "on" i was a little more ballsy on flat

Flat BB bench: warmups
275x6
275x4
285x4
Incline BB:
225x8
235x6
235x6
Decline BB:
275x8
315x3
225x10
Incline DB Flyes:
40sx20
40sx20
55s10
-intermediate ab workout

on days that i do flat bb bench, usually start with 225 after warmups for 10-12 reps, then work up to 275 for lower reps, but im glad i pushed today...my goal is to finish my set with 315x4 reps like i used to

 

[heebs10]

if your not even going to be running the cycle for 4 whole weeks, bold would be a waste as i hear it takes much longer to take affect. i really like the dermacrine or 1-T ideas, probably give you much more results for much less money compared to the furza imo.

 

[17amethyl]

Back

Still too early for noticable affects...slowly remembering the amazing pumps i used to get on pm25

Usually start with deads, but i do deads for 2 weeks, then take a week off, today was the off day

Pre-exhausted the lats w/
Lat pulldowns (wide parallel grip):
180x12
200x10
220x10
240x6
dropset
Barbell Reverse Grip Rows:
warmup
225x10
275x8
315x6
335x5
T-Bar Rows:
4platesx15
5platesx12
5platesx10
Single Arm Lat Pulldown:
60x15
70x15
70x15
Lower Back Extensions
3 sets of bodyweight for 15 reps

-my goal is to hit 365 3rd set for barbell rows while on cycle, and though i didnt deadlift today, make 5 plates for my 3rd set with 4 reps

usual numbers, if anything, felt lacking on tbar rows, can usually hit 6 plates for 10 reps or so, but lower back just wasnt feeling the weight

itchy nip syndrome hit me by day 3-4 last time i did this cycle, hoping it wont happen at all, or at least later in the cycle this time

thanks 4 checkin in, off day tommorow :run:

 

[17amethyl]

im actually leaning towards bridging the cycle (assuming the pm25 goes smoothely), either into hdrol or havoc...leaning towards hdrol since im more familiar with the dosing

 

[LilPsychotic]

im actually leaning towards bridging the cycle (assuming the pm25 goes smoothely), either into hdrol or havoc...leaning towards hdrol since im more familiar with the dosing

I don't know why you would do that, being that the compounds are very similar.

 

[17amethyl]

your right- theyre similar, but the differences are apparent, pm25 converts to clostebol- more androgenic and halo converts to turinabol- more anabolic...from my research hdrol would be better yielding in size gains but nonetheless, your right- similar results
...essentially looking for the best compound to prolong the cycle...not a definite, just speculating

update on magnon...recovery is noticable, brutal back workout yesterday which usually has me sore for a few days...feeling almost entirely recovered
thanks for stopping in...shoulders & traps tommorow

 

[celc5]

Subbed. I have 2 bottles sitting here so I'll follow along.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep this a solo run. Your idea to bridge is the best so far in this thread. But keep in mind, the reason we run p25, halo, or an epithio is because the recovery is smooth and you can easily keep gains. The recovery is more difficult once you stack and bridge.

For example, gain 8 and keep 6 on a solo run all while feeling great. Gain 12 keep 7 or 8 on a bridge and feel like crap for a few weeks into pct, regardless of how good your pct looks on paper.

 

[17amethyl]

Traps/Shoulders

thanks celc...will keep that good advice in mind
did a late trap/shoulder workout, strength is showing definite improvements, as pm25 has always been good for

Barbell Shrugs:
135x15
225x12
315x10
405x10
455x10
495x8
dropset with 315, burnout
-usual weights here, but it felt somewhat eaiser, i was holding at the top for a second, even with 5 plates, if i can hit 5 plates and a quarter for some decent reps by the end of this cycle, ill be happy

heres where i hit a new PR
Seated BB Military Press:
135x20
185x10
225x3
double dropset
DB Lateral Raises:
30x15
35x12
40x10
all super dropset with 25s
Single Hand Front Pulley Raises:
30x15
35x12
40x12
all super with 50lb straight bar front raise
Rear Delt Fly on Fly Machine:
110x14
120x14
100x20

So about 4/5 days in...about when the compounds affects should start "kicking in" with proper diet and all, i say this lightly though, the actual strength of this cycle wont be noticed at least until week 2
-pumps: simply amazing, no arginine/creatine product can top the pumps ive felt off this product, simply ridiculous...vascularity is showing defininte improvements
-strength: slow and steady
-sides: none thus far, which is great bc i usually am a magnet for sides
tommorow is either legs or arms
thanks for stopping in

by the way, weighing in at 205...this isnt true weight though since its nightime, will do another weigh tommorow morning post dropping heat

 

[Big3upgrade]

Dude good shiet! Cant wait to run mine next friday.

 

[luclyluciano]

Looks great so far...alot like my past Epi cycle.

Can someone clear up for me what exactly are the differences between anabolic and androgenic as far as benefits or side effect. I understand the actual definition but I was wondering the differences in personal experiences.

Sorry to highjack...thought I'd ask since Promagnon is mostly androgenic and alot of others are anabolic. What are the noticeable differences while on and off cycle?? Lucky!

 

[17amethyl]

appreciate the comments, im excited for you big...keep me posted once you start
recovery feels great btw, last night my shoulders/traps were pretty sore and im feeling nearly fresh today...
weighed in at 201 this morning, up a few lbs, but its still early and the strength/recovery is promising thus far

im sure a few guys here could answer that Q lucky better than i can

 

[17amethyl]

Arms

the pump was literally painful today...all those subbed debating to take it, i highly recommend to do so

Bi's:
Barbell Curl:
warmup
105x12
125x6
125x6
dropset
DB Hammer Curl:
45sx10
50sx8
60sx8
superset with reverse grip concentration curls EV bar
EV Bar curl super w/ DB isolation curl:
EV Bar & 1 plate on each side- 3 sets of 6 reps
Single hand db concentration curl w/ 25lb dbs- 3 sets of 12-8 reps
Tris:
Close Grip Bench on Smith (had no spotter so had 2 use smith):
warmup
225x10
275x8
225x10
225x10
- kinda upset, i usually finish with 3 plates for 4-6 reps, but even on the smith, i didnt feel confident without the spot
French Curls w/ EV Bar:
25s on each side: 12 reps
35s each side: 10 reps
45s each side: 10 reps
Tricep Pushdowns:
Rack (150lb)x15
Rack + 45lb platex10
Rack + 2 45lb platesx10
Rope Pulley Pushdowns:
60x15
70x12
80x10

then some basic forearm work...this entry is already long so ill spare you

there were no "strength" improvements today, but the pump was phenominal and more than made up for it...i dont really strive for many personal goals on arm day except for bicep barbell curl and close grip, so looking for improvements in that department
-recovery in between sets is amazing, feels like im on cracked beta-alanine; endurance mid sets is improving and squeezing out more reps
- vascularity: promagnon apparently invents new veins :lmao: usually have good vascularity, but today i noticed a cable vein from my over my trap and onto my shoulder, happy about that

-legs tommorow, this is the department i generally lack in, if u havnt noticed, my max on the big 3 are unproportional...highest ive hit on squat is 365x2 reps, id love to hit a max of 4 plates by the end of this cycle...i know high hopes

thanks for stopping in

 

[17amethyl]

Legs

legs went well, squats improved- definately...awesome quad and calf pump and endurance was noticeably improved

BB Squats: i go just below parallel
2 warmups
275x10
315x8
365x3
dropset with 2 plates until failure
- have never been able to squeeze out 8 reps with 3 plates before, esp with such good form and depth, the 365 were also good reps and very deep...pleased, will be pushing for better weights/reps next lift
Leg Press:
625x10
805x10
985x6
- nothing too unusual, a few more extra reps, would like to break 1000 on the 3rd set for a few reps
Legs Extensions:
100x15
200x10
50x50 :yuck:
superset w/ HackSquat Machine:
300x12
300x12
300x12
Calf Raises on machine:
140x15
225x12
315x10
405x8
super w: donkey raises 2 plates

Skipped Hams with the intention of doing some tire flipping with a 750lb tire...somewhat training for an upcoming strongman comp in the spring...tire was filled with ice and water though so i gave it a rest, will probably hit hams on back day...

Still early, but feeling great, bf% hasn't dropped, but I'm feeling tighter...barely have a "gut" but you can still see the faint 6pack, more of a bloated stomach look...this isnt from the pm25 i just usually look like that, hopefully can lean that down as i increase cardio on cycle...
-so endurance, vascularity/pump, and recovery are coming in very well
- bf% reduction is in the works, usually start leaning out in week 2
- strength: thus far gradual in some departments, and very noticable in others...looking foward to bench and deadlift soon

taking tommorow off, thanks for stopping in

 

[17amethyl]

Chest/Abs

great chest day, pr on flat bench; i have hit 3 plates before for a few reps, but that was a while ago and ever since i havnt been able to go beyond 295 for a while

Flat BB Bench:
275x8
315x3
315x2
Incline Smith:
225x10
235x8
245x8
Decline BB:
275x8
225x10
225x10
- usually go to 3 plates on this but it felt terrible today, pretty sure the bench is actually lopped sided as of recently/piece of sh!t, will likely be doing db or smith for a while for decline movements...thats my school gym for u
DB Flyes superset with Overhead Extensions
- then basic ab work

strength: prominent and increasing; honestly, 3 plates didn't feel that "impossible heavy" feeling you get once you take something off the rack and immediately regret trying
pump: amazing
recovery: very good
sides: none that i have noticed, knock on wood...walking to class today and had a terrible calf pump, but only for a few minutes

not sure if people are still subb'd to this, ill be doing back tommorow, going for 505 on deadlift, wish me luck

 

[17amethyl]

Back/Hamstrings

lol this log is pretty pathetic, doesnt seem to be many people subb'd...i might just discontinue after this post

ill just do whatever improvements were made to keep it short
Deadlifts:
PR 505x1
Barbell Overhand Rows
Reverse Grip Lat Pulldown:
PR Racked it at 250x8
BTN Lat Pulldown
T-Bar Rows on Pulley

then hit the hams i missed a few days ago

505 did not feel bad at all, i was scared to do it and almost didn't in fear i might hurt myself, kept form tight though and pulled out a clean rep...i kinda wished i went for 545 :31: that kinda a long shot though
-bf% is dropping slightly, feeling more fuller and pumped throughout the day, weight in at about 202 in the morning so gradual weight gain

thanks for checking in, whoever still is lol

 

[celc5]

I'm subbed and in for the long haul bro. I'm reading but haven't had much to say since your posts have been very thorough so far.

Personally, I get just as much out of logs that have hundreds of hits as I do with logs that have thousands. When I feel the responsibility of posting daily updates, it helps to keep my diet and workouts more honest.

 

[nateo1979]

lol this log is pretty pathetic, doesnt seem to be many people subb'd...i might just discontinue after this post

ill just do whatever improvements were made to keep it short
Deadlifts:
PR 505x1
Barbell Overhand Rows
Reverse Grip Lat Pulldown:
PR Racked it at 250x8
BTN Lat Pulldown
T-Bar Rows on Pulley

then hit the hams i missed a few days ago

505 did not feel bad at all, i was scared to do it and almost didn't in fear i might hurt myself, kept form tight though and pulled out a clean rep...i kinda wished i went for 545 :31: that kinda a long shot though
-bf% is dropping slightly, feeling more fuller and pumped throughout the day, weight in at about 202 in the morning so gradual weight gain

thanks for checking in, whoever still is lol

subbed.. Have you notice any excessive hair shedding? If so are you prone to MPB? That is the side effect I look for when I follow these logs.

 

[17amethyl]

subbed.. Have you notice any excessive hair shedding? If so are you prone to MPB? That is the side effect I look for when I follow these logs.

thanks celc and nateo....
no hairshedding, or noticeable loss at all...i would be prone to MPB being that most males in my family notice hair loss/receding hair line at earlier ages...so far so good, knock on wood

only other "sides" i can mention is slight increase in irritability, though ive never been the person to let that get out of control

-one other thing...starting to notice traces of blood in my nose when i blow it, as well as in the mucus i have building up in the back of my throat, usually attributed to my mild allergies and not just gizz...not a large concern, but i figure the somewhat bloody noses and brief intermittent headaches might be signs of bp increase...ive altered my diet, as well as taking cycle support to aid with bp, and it seems to be getting better, will get bp levels checked if problem persists

body fat is dropping, i am looking alot more defined, and as bf drops i am noticing lean muscle gains...so weight is at 200 presently, went up first then down a little, but im not one to base my progress entirely off the scale and therefore don't mind it being that i look better and fuller, and strength is surely improved

-feeling somewhat sore in my shoulders from chest and back...i might take the day off if i do not feel fully recovered after a few meals

 

[Big3upgrade]

Bro keep going with the log, we are all watching your progress. Get big!

 

[17amethyl]

thanks for the feedback...
heres a question for you guys, the one part of my body noticeably unproportional to everything else is my calves...ive been hitting them differently for a while...and theyre growing but, esp while on cycle- what are your opinions about hitting them twice a week, evenly spaced out? im usually not a fan training anything more than once a week, but i feel this might be worth a try

 

[ex-tightend83]

Subbed. I have 2 bottles sitting here so I'll follow along.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep this a solo run. Your idea to bridge is the best so far in this thread. But keep in mind, the reason we run p25, halo, or an epithio is because the recovery is smooth and you can easily keep gains. The recovery is more difficult once you stack and bridge.

For example, gain 8 and keep 6 on a solo run all while feeling great. Gain 12 keep 7 or 8 on a bridge and feel like crap for a few weeks into pct, regardless of how good your pct looks on paper.

Subdizzled! I also have two bottles in my "candy stash," so I may run this with 1-T or Dermacrine in the future, but running it "solo" is also a good idea. I'm interested in your progress. Get swole!

Oh, and one more thing: Just because you may not have a lot of replies doesn't mean that people are not following along. Also keep in mind that keeping a log is also a way for you to track your progress. Keep up the great work!

 

[celc5]

17,
on cycle I do bodyparts 2, sometimes 3 times per week. I justify this with enhanced recovery on cycle. However, during typical training, I train most bodyparts twice per week anyway. So consider the source when you take my advice regarding frequency.

ExTE,
P25 is theoretically more androgenic than halo. The dermacrine and 1T are probably better options for the LESS androgenic compounds like halo or for those like me who have zero androgenic effect from phera. The P25 + either dermacrine or 1T might add to shedding and acne, but minimal increase in gains IMO. I've never ran 1T or Dermacrine, so that's just my theoretical opinion.

 

[ex-tightend83]

17,
on cycle I do bodyparts 2, sometimes 3 times per week. I justify this with enhanced recovery on cycle. However, during typical training, I train most bodyparts twice per week anyway. So consider the source when you take my advice regarding frequency.

ExTE,
P25 is theoretically more androgenic than halo. The dermacrine and 1T are probably better options for the LESS androgenic compounds like halo or for those like me who have zero androgenic effect from phera. The P25 + either dermacrine or 1T might add to shedding and acne, but minimal increase in gains IMO. I've never ran 1T or Dermacrine, so that's just my theoretical opinion.

Well, since I don't have ANY hair, I don't have to worry about shedding! LOL! So, aside from running it solo as per your suggestion, what could I stack this with and make good gains? Just curious.

 

[luclyluciano]

17,
on cycle I do bodyparts 2, sometimes 3 times per week. I justify this with enhanced recovery on cycle. However, during typical training, I train most bodyparts twice per week anyway. So consider the source when you take my advice regarding frequency.

ExTE,
P25 is theoretically more androgenic than halo. The dermacrine and 1T are probably better options for the LESS androgenic compounds like halo or for those like me who have zero androgenic effect from phera. The P25 + either dermacrine or 1T might add to shedding and acne, but minimal increase in gains IMO. I've never ran 1T or Dermacrine, so that's just my theoretical opinion.

I have run Dermacrine and currently on 3rd week of 1-T.....starting to kick in!

Dermacrine was nice mild, leaning out effect, excellent energy, libido and cognitive boost.

1-T is just starting to kick, nice pumps, more fullness, leaning out fast!!!!!

I have a bottle of H-Roid I am gonna run next (P-25) so I am watching this thread.

Notice any difference between Androgenic vs Anabolic compounds here?

 

[ex-tightend83]

I have run Dermacrine and currently on 3rd week of 1-T.....starting to kick in!

Dermacrine was nice mild, leaning out effect, excellent energy, libido and cognitive boost.

1-T is just starting to kick, nice pumps, more fullness, leaning out fast!!!!!

I have a bottle of H-Roid I am gonna run next (P-25) so I am watching this thread.

Notice any difference between Androgenic vs Anabolic compounds here?

Sweet! I'm running 1-T with Phera/P-Plex and pulsing Methoxy-TST starting on Monday. Should be interesting, to say the least.

 

[celc5]

Well, since I don't have ANY hair, I don't have to worry about shedding! LOL! So, aside from running it solo as per your suggestion, what could I stack this with and make good gains? Just curious.

Just to be clear, you're asking what would stack well with p25, correct? My first question is why do you think you'll be disappointed with a solo run of p25? I usually just suggest the solo run for halo clones and p25 clones cause they are such awesome cycles with almost unanamous positive feedback.

I don't know your cycle history, so maybe you already know the ropes with designers and have a plan in mind. If so, my guess would be a tren if you're not worried about losing libido... aggressive dosing of the whimpy tren extreme clones or low to moderate dose of the controversially methylated trenadrol. Strength would be rediculous with that stack. PCT would probably more difficult on paper and in the gym, bedroom, psychologically, etc.

Others like MMV2 or a formestane for aggression/energy stacked with halo. That would be real similar to your dermacrine idea. I'm not a fan of furaz whatsoever and feedback on propadrol is pretty consistantly poor. So I wouldn't recommend either of those to add onto your p25 idea.

 

[ex-tightend83]

Just to be clear, you're asking what would stack well with p25, correct? My first question is why do you think you'll be disappointed with a solo run of p25? I usually just suggest the solo run for halo clones and p25 clones cause they are such awesome cycles with almost unanamous positive feedback.

I don't know your cycle history, so maybe you already know the ropes with designers and have a plan in mind. If so, my guess would be a tren if you're not worried about losing libido... aggressive dosing of the whimpy tren extreme clones or low to moderate dose of the controversially methylated trenadrol. Strength would be rediculous with that stack. PCT would probably more difficult on paper and in the gym, bedroom, psychologically, etc.

Others like MMV2 or a formestane for aggression/energy stacked with halo. That would be real similar to your dermacrine idea. I'm not a fan of furaz
whatsoever and feedback on propadrol is pretty consistantly poor. So I wouldn't recommend either of those to add onto your p25 idea.

I don't have a problem running it solo...I guess I'm just a little greedy with stacking...lol. So I'll have to decide whether to run it solo (which I'll probably do) or run it with MMV2 like you suggested. This is for a later-this-year stack, probably mid-football season. I'm just getting my ducks in a row. But thanks for all the help. Oh, and this will be my fourth cycle coming up on Monday. I have too many female "friends" to have serious problems with libido, so I guess that eliminates the tren. They're the ones who give me the dough to purchase all these lovely, um, candies, so I gotta make sure I'm able to give them their money's worth...if you know what I mean. I have a shoe box o' goodies, and I'm trying to use them: Two bottles of P-25, a bottle of Dermacrine, half a bottle of Superdrol (not gonna use, probably throw away), 2 Methoxy-TST, Methadrol by I-Force Nutrition...stuff like that.

 

[17amethyl]

honestly ex-tightend, i was pretty greedy in my search for something to stack pm25 with but you know what...once i started the cycle, i was happy with my choice to run it solo...like celc has said, pm25 is usually pretty light in terms of side effects and the results, though more gradual and not as explosive as other compounds are definately very easy to maintain with a simple yet well-planned pct...and its only fair, the gains are actually pretty dam solid esp in terms of strength, vascularity, recovery, and bf reduction...
in terms of size to be gained- thats really up to you, im experimenting with the compound using rather high caloric intake for a clean bulk, but clean calories coupled with cardio so as not to put on messy wieght, and so far looking and feeling great

 

[ex-tightend83]

honestly ex-tightend, i was pretty greedy in my search for something to stack pm25 with but you know what...once i started the cycle, i was happy with my choice to run it solo...like celc has said, pm25 is usually pretty light in terms of side effects and the results, though more gradual and not as explosive as other compounds are definately very easy to maintain with a simple yet well-planned pct...and its only fair, the gains are actually pretty dam solid esp in terms of strength, vascularity, recovery, and bf reduction...
in terms of size to be gained- thats really up to you, im experimenting with the compound using rather high caloric intake for a clean bulk, but clean calories coupled with cardio so as not to put on messy wieght, and so far looking and feeling great

I guess that settles it! 75 mg for 40 days it is...solo! I could probably use some ancillaries like IGF-2, and of course all the other stuff like B-5, etc., but this will be the only prohormone. Thanks for your help!

 

[17amethyl]

Traps/Shoulders/Calves

there were no power racks available so i had to use the smith for my shrugs
Shrugs:
-finished at 5 plates for 8 reps
BB Shoulder Press:
-hit 225 again, one set for 5 reps, and another set for 4 reps
FTB Standing shoulder press:
-light triple burnout sets
DB Laterals Raises
Upright Rows superset w/Front raises on pulley
DB Rear Delt Flyes

then i figured i would start hitting calves twice a week, so i did 2 calf exercises

solid workout overall, im looking to keep barbell shoulder press going up as well as my shrugs...last week was the first time i hit 2 plates on sp for 3 reps, today i managed to do 2 sets of 2 plates for higher reps so strength is coming in steadily still

- will bump to 75mgs in a few days, and will probably use the 2nd bottle of my promagnon to make it roughly a 5 week cycle total at 75mgs, i really feel pushing it to 100mgs is a bit much and provoking side effects, though i have seen it run before...im sure 75mgs will get the job done though, esp if 50mgs is already making noticable improvements

 

[celc5]

17a, kick asss response brotha (regarding post #35)! I agree with it all. Nothing is explosive as Superdrol, but you have a big mess to clean up afterwards even with well planned pct.

For me personally, I went bananas with carb intake during my halo run and bf still dropped. It's the only compound I've ever run that I can completely credit for causing a true recomp effect. I expect that p25 will be similar in terms of recomp.

Phera and Havoc got sloppy when I tried to increase carbs. I still gained lean mass, but had to be more careful with those compounds around the waistline.

ExLB, save your fancy supps like igf2 for pct brotha. Search around and the vets will give you a consensus of "the cycle is the easy part. pct planning and execution is the tough part." So save your favorite estrogen control and "natty" supps for pct. Igf2 is probably a good pct idea for your phera run too... maybe help a bit when your nips get itchy and puffy from altered prolactin levels.

Just a little tidbit for everyone on board, 2 little tweaks to pct plans were crucial for me:
1) dosing creatine out the wazoo
2) very very sparse and conservative use of stims. I dunno why, but I maintain my gains waaaay better when there's no stims in the picture during pct, and to be honest, any time off cycle.

 

[ex-tightend83]

17a, kick asss response brotha (regarding post #35)! I agree with it all. Nothing is explosive as Superdrol, but you have a big mess to clean up afterwards even with well planned pct.

For me personally, I went bananas with carb intake during my halo run and bf still dropped. It's the only compound I've ever run that I can completely credit for causing a true recomp effect. I expect that p25 will be similar in terms of recomp.

Phera and Havoc got sloppy when I tried to increase carbs. I still gained lean mass, but had to be more careful with those compounds around the waistline.

ExLB, save your fancy supps like igf2 for pct brotha. Search around and the vets will give you a consensus of "the cycle is the easy part. pct planning and execution is the tough part." So save your favorite estrogen control and "natty" supps for pct. Igf2 is probably a good pct idea for your phera run too... maybe help a bit when your nips get itchy and puffy from altered prolactin levels.

Just a little tidbit for everyone on board, 2 little tweaks to pct plans were crucial for me:
1) dosing creatine out the wazoo
2) very very sparse and conservative use of stims. I dunno why, but I maintain my gains waaaay better when there's no stims in the picture during pct, and to be honest, any time off cycle.

Thanks for the advice. Will do. I appreciate all the help, hell, I'm still learning. Even when people come up to me on the street and occasionally ask me quiestions about my training (due to my size and always rocking one of my Eagles jerseys), I give them a couple basics and then send them here for info...you can't go wrong!:smokin:

 

[17amethyl]

thanks celc, and np tightend- when will you be starting? i think youll be pretty happy with the results

woke up this morning looking probably my best yet on the cycle...vascularity showing very well- i usuall have decent vascularity at lower bf to begin with, but i seem to remain "pumped" throughout the day which is a plus
- bf is definately decreasing, i usually have a "block" so to speak on my stomach with a faint outline of my abs, but as i get deeper into the cycle the definition and seperations are becoming more apparent...retaining thicker appearance in the shoulders, arms, quads, and chest especially: ive always had a strong/big chest but the upper portion of my chest is really coming in nicely on the cycle and is definately better shaped as it seems muscle density has increased and the extra bodyfat on the lower chest is leaving

btw, headaches have gone away and recovery feels great, i honestly feel like i barely worked out shoulders yesterday despite the intense lift

weighing in at just below 202 this morning

 

[ex-tightend83]

thanks celc, and np tightend- when will you be starting? i think youll be pretty happy with the results

woke up this morning looking probably my best yet on the cycle...vascularity showing very well- i usuall have decent vascularity at lower bf to begin with, but i seem to remain "pumped" throughout the day which is a plus
- bf is definately decreasing, i usually have a "block" so to speak on my stomach with a faint outline of my abs, but as i get deeper into the cycle the definition and seperations are becoming more apparent...retaining thicker appearance in the shoulders, arms, quads, and chest especially: ive always had a strong/big chest but the upper portion of my chest is really coming in nicely on the cycle and is definately better shaped as it seems muscle density has increased and the extra bodyfat on the lower chest is leaving

btw, headaches have gone away and recovery feels great, i honestly feel like i barely worked out shoulders yesterday despite the intense lift

weighing in at just below 202 this morning

This won't be for at least two cycles...probably mid-football season/near the end of the year. I just like to do my research first. I'm starting a 1-T/Phera-Plex/Methoxy-TST stack on Monday. Awww, shizznit!

 

[17amethyl]

Arms

Bi's:
Barbell Curls:
-next week will strive for 135 for reps, today 125 felt easier and was getting 6-8 reps on the last 2 sets
Heavy DB Hammer curls superset w/ lighter db hammer curls:
EZ Bar Concentration Curls super w/ bent over db concen. curls:
Tris:
DB Skull Crushes super w/ dips
Laying French Curls
Rope Pushdowns super w/ closegrip on machine

The basic Forearm work

Todays workout was somewhat rushed, but still a solid lift...incredible pump/vacularity :shock: and muscular endurance continues to improve as im able to do more reps here and there each workout...muscles are looking fuller, and bodyfat, esp on the mid section is consistently dropping

Tommorow i will be taking off :yawn:

 

[17amethyl]

what do you think about time of dosing for 75mgs
ive been doing 25 mg @ 9am when i wake, and another 25mg at 3pm which is about an hour before lifting

last time i did this cycle i originally spaced the pills out, 1 morning, 1 afternoon, 1 evening, but i found that taking the last dose too late messes with my sleep...what are you opinions:
- i may do 1 at 9am, 2 at 3pm, or
- it makes a little more sense to do 1 morning, 1 pre workout, 1 post workout
thanks in advance for your thoughts

 

[Big3upgrade]

I'd take your last pill 6 hrs before you sleep. I am having trouble sleeping right now taking 1 pill 4 hrs before I sleep.

 

[17amethyl]

gyno comin a creepin?

yeah, im making sure to do that...today is the first day at 75mgs and is also my off day

-perhaps worth mentioning, maybe not, but slight soreness on my nipples, first and only "side effect" felt yet either than a minor and one-time calf pump, could be unrelated and temporary however so lets see
...serm on hand if it gets worse

f:shock:ck you gyno :squintfinger: haha

 

[17amethyl]

Legs, 2nd day at 75mg

Squats:
- went a little nuts with squats: 8 sets total, most of them warmups and dropsets, but
-hit 365 again today for 3, deep reps...pleased
- 3 plates felt like a joke, which is a great feeling for me because i usually can only do 4 decent reps with it...now im doing 6-10
Leg Press:
- quads were so shot from squats i didnt do much at all
Leg Extension super with Hacksquat machine:
- one of my favorite things i like to do after 3 sets of this is go back to leg extension and put it on 50lbs then do 50 reps...insane quad pump
Calves, supersetting 2 machines:
- calves typically my weakest aspect of my body, have really put on size quickly...may not seem that visually impressiveto others, but i went from having barely any calves to pretty well shaped ones now, now seeing a split in them as well...
Hamstring curls

- some cardio on the bike, switched it between maximum resistance and medium resistance

- vascularity on my legs is becoming more profound with each leg workout- ive always seen a slight sign of veinage on my legs but lately theyre getting creepy looking, i love it
-quads are feeling thicker, and definately stronger

- overall, im pleased...was kinda hoping for more on squats today, and dissapointed about leg press, but i guess i cant be greedy and go up every lift, to hit 4 plates for 1,2 reps clean reps on squat would be a tremendous accomplishment for me, and im determined to do it during this cycle

 

[ex-tightend83]

Squats:
- went a little nuts with squats: 8 sets total, most of them warmups and dropsets, but
-hit 365 again today for 3, deep reps...pleased
- 3 plates felt like a joke, which is a great feeling for me because i usually can only do 4 decent reps with it...now im doing 6-10
Leg Press:
- quads were so shot from squats i didnt do much at all
Leg Extension super with Hacksquat machine:
- one of my favorite things i like to do after 3 sets of this is go back to leg extension and put it on 50lbs then do 50 reps...insane quad pump
Calves, supersetting 2 machines:
- calves typically my weakest aspect of my body, have really put on size quickly...may not seem that visually impressiveto others, but i went from having barely any calves to pretty well shaped ones now, now seeing a split in them as well...
Hamstring curls

- some cardio on the bike, switched it between maximum resistance and medium resistance

- vascularity on my legs is becoming more profound with each leg workout- ive always seen a slight sign of veinage on my legs but lately theyre getting creepy looking, i love it
-quads are feeling thicker, and definately stronger

- overall, im pleased...was kinda hoping for more on squats today, and dissapointed about leg press, but i guess i cant be greedy and go up every lift, to hit 4 plates for 1,2 reps clean reps on squat would be a tremendous accomplishment for me, and im determined to do it during this cycle

Hoo-rah!!!:smokin:

 

[celc5]

17, any history of gyno or prolactin symptoms in the past?

Regarding dosing times, I say just experiment for a few days. Don't let it f with your sleep. Any combo should work IMO. I suspect that dose timing is over rated, but I guess I couldn't prove that one way or another.

 

[Big3upgrade]

Squats:
- went a little nuts with squats: 8 sets total, most of them warmups and dropsets, but
-hit 365 again today for 3, deep reps...pleased
- 3 plates felt like a joke, which is a great feeling for me because i usually can only do 4 decent reps with it...now im doing 6-10
Leg Press:
- quads were so shot from squats i didnt do much at all
Leg Extension super with Hacksquat machine:
- one of my favorite things i like to do after 3 sets of this is go back to leg extension and put it on 50lbs then do 50 reps...insane quad pump
Calves, supersetting 2 machines:
- calves typically my weakest aspect of my body, have really put on size quickly...may not seem that visually impressiveto others, but i went from having barely any calves to pretty well shaped ones now, now seeing a split in them as well...
Hamstring curls

- some cardio on the bike, switched it between maximum resistance and medium resistance

- vascularity on my legs is becoming more profound with each leg workout- ive always seen a slight sign of veinage on my legs but lately theyre getting creepy looking, i love it
-quads are feeling thicker, and definately stronger

- overall, im pleased...was kinda hoping for more on squats today, and dissapointed about leg press, but i guess i cant be greedy and go up every lift, to hit 4 plates for 1,2 reps clean reps on squat would be a tremendous accomplishment for me, and im determined to do it during this cycle

Yeahhhhh buddy! Greart workout bro! Dude I am loving this compound. Yeah the vascularity is insane. Take your time man, you dont want to go move the weight up too fast, slow and steady is the key!

 

[17amethyl]

no prolactin issues in the past, pm25 "shouldn't" cause much of a prolactin build-up right?, for some reason ive just always associated prolacitn build-up with progestins or "wetter" compounds but i could be wrong...
in terms of gyno, only 1 incident, it was the first time i ran pm25 and i got slight tenderness in the nipples, but a few days of nolva put it to rest, though it did re-surface once again, but was again subdued by nolva
i feel "safer" running pm25 than many other aas/phs since it chemically is not prone to estrogen conversion, though i understand how gyno can still surface even with these compounds...
i think its nothing, if im right the thing to look for is "itchyness" and noticable puffyness of the nipples and not the type of mild/dull pain i feel very, very briefly which could be anything or even just something mental