Addition of 4-AD to an H-Drol cycle?

[mdgrwl]

I'm going to run H-Drol in about a month and wondering what you guys thought about the addition of AMS 4-AD?

 

[EasyEJL]

it should feel good, work well for a bulk.

 

[mdgrwl]

thanks, anyone else? I'm not on the up and up on 4-AD... researching it now and wondering what you all think

 

[mdgrwl]

bump, anyone?

 

[tattoopierced1]

4AD converts to test, so it should make you feel pretty good. Never taken any HDROL before, but if a side of it is lethargy, then this should combat that just fine

 

[Ironpounder33]

In my opinion:
You should probably phrase it as adding H-drol to 4-AD by AMS.

4-AD is much more of a mass gainer, H-drol gives you clean mass and fatloss. You might as well just do 4-AD alone with a high dose. Supposedly its the closest legal thing you can get to Test. because it converts to test once its been broken down or some ****.


I'm not an expert. In fact my post could be bunk. Theres just so much BS flying around on forums I can't sort through the information and be correct all the time. Thats just what I've learned. I still could be wrong. Do your research. I spent weeks looking into compounds before I ever touch it.


I have taken H-drol. It doesn't do much but offer a little strength, and a lot of fat burning. Don't bother if you're bulking imo. Its really mild in anything up to 60 mg which is expensive to maintain for more than a few weeks.

Get a SERM for your PCT if you run 4-AD bro. find a research chem company. That is all I can say.

 

[mdgrwl]

Thanks... know what dose I should run it at? Something tells me what AMS has posted on the bottle is underdosed.
Also, how bad is shutdown from 4-AD? I hear alot of people reporting no sides from H-Drol, improved libido if that and PCT being a breeze... all of which I like. Will 4-AD be highly suppressive like say, Superdrol?

 

[EasyEJL]

Thanks... know what dose I should run it at? Something tells me what AMS has posted on the bottle is underdosed.
Also, how bad is shutdown from 4-AD? I hear alot of people reporting no sides from H-Drol, improved libido if that and PCT being a breeze... all of which I like. Will 4-AD be highly suppressive like say, Superdrol?

4ad converts to test, so it will be far more suppressive than the halo

 

[dg806]

Remember, this is not the old 4 a diol that was popular before the original ban. I still don't exactly understand what the new stuff is? But I doubt it converts as nearly as high as the original 4a diol did. I did ALOT of the 4 a diol yrs back and loved it. I never did a serm but just otc(6-oxo) and never had a problem. Strength and size shot up every time I took it. If the AMS works anywhere as close I would love to try it. But it is hard to tell what pct you will need as I don't understand the compound.

 

[tattoopierced1]

the 4AD AMS products converts at a rate of 15-20%

 

[mdgrwl]

Remember, this is not the old 4 a diol that was popular before the original ban. I still don't exactly understand what the new stuff is? But I doubt it converts as nearly as high as the original 4a diol did. I did ALOT of the 4 a diol yrs back and loved it. I never did a serm but just otc(6-oxo) and never had a problem. Strength and size shot up every time I took it. If the AMS works anywhere as close I would love to try it. But it is hard to tell what pct you will need as I don't understand the compound.

see thats the thing, not many people know the compound... tough to get little if any feedback on it...

 

[isoc]

also, have seen labels with 150 mgs of the 4-dhea and one with 200 mgs listed, would like to know which one it is. Has anyone done a stand alone 4 weeks of this at gram+ dosages? If I remember correctly the original 4-ad had to be taken at high dosages if run stand alone but did work. If this stuff does work well at 1 to 1.2 grams per day or so, 5-7 caps maybe, it would be expensive, but for stand alone non-methyl, still doable and I think many people would like it. If people are just looking to help with on cycle libido, and lethargy just take dhea. I am interested in the 4-ad product and whether or not it can actually produce gains. Also, is the 15% conversion based off of total dose, or is that what survives into the bloodstream? I am assuming it is what gets in the blood because at a gram dose per day that is basically a gram of test per week and I doubt this product is that powerful. What is the amount that makes it into the bloodstream? Thanks and sorry for the slight hijack.

 

[dg806]

Let me see if I have this correct....
the 4 DHEA converts to 4 dione(original andro) which converted at about 5%
The old 4 diol converted at roughly 16%.
Both sucked orally (with diol having to be taken at 1g plus per day)and that is the reason the majority of people ran the 4diol transdermally. I still fail to see where 4 DHEA will be more effective than the original diol and most importantly cost effective. ( that means 4DHEA would need to be taken at 3g-15 caps or better per day to see the same benefit, not 600mg)

 

[Royd The Noyd]

see thats the thing, not many people know the compound... tough to get little if any feedback on it...

Yep, this is why we have the logs up now (although no solo 4-AD).

also, have seen labels with 150 mgs of the 4-dhea and one with 200 mgs listed, would like to know which one it is.

200mg's

Has anyone done a stand alone 4 weeks of this at gram+ dosages?

I cannot say that I know of anyone first hand. I dont believe anyone in the company has ran it that high but I will ask around.

If I remember correctly the original 4-ad had to be taken at high dosages if run stand alone but did work. If this stuff does work well at 1 to 1.2 grams per day or so, 5-7 caps maybe, it would be expensive, but for stand alone non-methyl, still doable and I think many people would like it. If people are just looking to help with on cycle libido, and lethargy just take dhea. I am interested in the 4-ad product and whether or not it can actually produce gains. Also, is the 15% conversion based off of total dose, or is that what survives into the bloodstream? I am assuming it is what gets in the blood because at a gram dose per day that is basically a gram of test per week and I doubt this product is that powerful. What is the amount that makes it into the bloodstream? Thanks and sorry for the slight hijack.

The 15-20% conversion is based on what actually converts to test, but remember that conversion rates are very subjective. The compound doesnt just go into your body and suddenly stop converting down the line. This is a hard one to explain because I know consumers want a hard and fast number but measuring such things is difficult. Think of these hormones as moving targets. In our estimation its somewhere in the 15-20% range.

I should mention that one person did run 4-AD here at AM.com back in 06. With bloodwork showing increased test levels while ON. You can see the thread and results in this thread.

Let me see if I have this correct....
the 4 DHEA converts to 4 dione(original andro) which converted at about 5%
The old 4 diol converted at roughly 16%.
Both sucked orally (with diol having to be taken at 1g plus per day)and that is the reason the majority of people ran the 4diol transdermally. I still fail to see where 4 DHEA will be more effective than the original diol and most importantly cost effective. ( that means 4DHEA would need to be taken at 3g-15 caps or better per day to see the same benefit, not 600mg)

See above results regarding test levels and I will find more information for you. Diol and dione do not directly convert to each other, although they both convert to test FWIW. Most of these conversion rates are useless or guesstimates as stated above. LG has stated this a few times with a much better explanation then I could provide.

 

[isoc]

thanks for the info, that 15-20% total conversion still seems a little high, but who knows. I do think that gram+ orally dosing would be needed to really see what this product can do, and I think that running at 600 or so mgs per day is underdosing. For the cost and just to get on cycle libido and lethargy control plain dhea is going to be effective and much more cost effecient. Still intrigued by the product, the thought of a non-methyl that converts to test sounds good, and I dont think this has been given a good shot yet, as doses are too low and always ran stacked with something else. You guys and PP should do this one as a transdermal.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

thanks for the info, that 15-20% total conversion still seems a little high, but who knows. I do think that gram+ orally dosing would be needed to really see what this product can do, and I think that running at 600 or so mgs per day is underdosing. For the cost and just to get on cycle libido and lethargy control plain dhea is going to be effective and much more cost effecient. Still intrigued by the product, the thought of a non-methyl that converts to test sounds good, and I dont think this has been given a good shot yet, as doses are too low and always ran stacked with something else. You guys and PP should do this one as a transdermal.

I believe Pp has stated that its something they are not pursuing at this point because the compound is so expensive to begin with. There is not a lot of profit to be made in non-methyls when you compare them to things like SD clones.

Overall those using it only speak positively. I found these reviews on another retailer site. I have no idea who they are or how reliable they are but they were solo 4-AD reviews apparently:

November 28, 2008 Overall: 8 | Effectiveness: 7 | Value: 10

Age: 21
Purchased a 6 week cycle from m*****.com, just began PCT. Through the first two weeks I actually lost 2 pounds while consuming 3500-4000 calories/day and increasing my workout intensity. However, during the next two weeks I gained almost a pound a day. I would consider about half of these gains to be muscular, and the other half water. Starting weight: 196 Current weight: 205 I did increase my max bench press from 235 to 255, and endurance increased slightly. Most pleasing of all was that I noticed zero side effects. My appetite increased, even while consuming 6 meals daily. Its not exactly Dbol, but definitely a decent product.

August 22, 2008 Overall: 9 | Effectiveness: 10 | Value: 10

Age: 27
First pro-hormone ever, read about it, decided to try it. I took the 6 week cycle with Arom-X as my PCT. This stuff works as advertised. I'm in my 6th week now and I've gained a total of 11.5 lbs. Pants size didn't go up, so that's obviously a good thing. I noticed strength increases towards the end of the 2nd week, and well into the 3rd. Also I did a 5 day on, 2 day off cycle, taking the maximum 6 pills a day. No side effects, libido stronger than ever, a little irritability, but nothing to make me go ape sh!t. I will probably take this again in the future. Also I got a 6 week cycle from www.ma******.com for $64. Well worth it!

July 22, 2008 Overall: 8 | Effectiveness: 8 | Value: 8

Age: 21
Little side effects. Got a little bit of acne, but I'm more prone to it so it was expected. I gained about 12 pounds (6-8 lbs of muscle). I'm taking Arom-x for PCT right now. 4-AD was fantastic. I felt my aggression rising. My workouts were intense (i stacked with Hypertrop-x, another AMS product). I even couldn't workout for one whole week due to work, and it still worked great.

Maybe if there is enough interest AMS could do some sort of special on 3 bottles of 4-AD. That way we could maybe get some more feedback on solo runs. A discount or buy 1 get 1 free type of deal. Like I said though its an expensive compound so it may be difficult.

 

[crazilyfter42]

Why is the ingredient profile or label different on many of the website selling this product? Some claim 150mgs diandrone, diandrone = DHEA, not 4-DHEA. One claimed 200mgs of 4-DHEA. Another one claimed 150 mgs of DHEA just used different nomenclature than the other one above. I am tossing around the idea of using this during a future SD cycle I may run but this different labeling is bothering me. I was specifically looking at the website you quoted those reviews from but they list it as 150mgs of diandrone or plain dhea.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Why is the ingredient profile or label different on many of the website selling this product? Some claim 150mgs diandrone, diandrone = DHEA, not 4-DHEA. One claimed 200mgs of 4-DHEA. Another one claimed 150 mgs of DHEA just used different nomenclature than the other one above. I am tossing around the idea of using this during a future SD cycle I may run but this different labeling is bothering me. I was specifically looking at the website you quoted those reviews from but they list it as 150mgs of diandrone or plain dhea.

It's 200mg's of 4-DHEA. Go off the AMS site..

 

[Moyer]

Well it's been out for quite a while now. It's the only oral on the market that converts to test, and I haven't seen any solo logs. That says a lot right there.

 

[ericos_bob]

I'd run Halodrol and 4AD as a base only. Do some research on Halo logs you'll find when used on a bulk there's many reports of gaining 10,15 even 20lbs in a 6 week cycle.