Better Strength gains-19NOR or Havoc??

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    Better Strength gains-19NOR or Havoc??


    What compound gave better strength gains? Tren 19NOR / Trenadrol or Epi/Havoc?? I am more interested in strength than size. Cheers, angel77


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    Trenadrol by far.

    60lbs to the bench in 4wks.
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    tren... could be one of the top strength builders available.

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    bump.......any more opinions?

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    tren

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrenolin View Post
    Trenadrol by far.

    60lbs to the bench in 4wks.
    I know I'll need 2 bottles. How did you dose it? 3-4 caps per day? Did you ramp up?

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    mine was 90mg. sides (shedding etc) can happen between 120-150mg. bench was probably my weakest gain - 225-255 in 3 weeks (yes, i only ran it for 23 days). military press from 155-225 though was no frikken joke!

    like everything, all gains are based on your diet. also, make sure you dose your tren with peanut butter or olive oil, or flax/fish oil - minimum 5g with each pill

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    Quote Originally Posted by angel77 View Post
    I know I'll need 2 bottles. How did you dose it? 3-4 caps per day? Did you ramp up?
    How does Trenadrol compare to Phera in terms of strength?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mj34 View Post
    How does Trenadrol compare to Phera in terms of strength?
    from everything I've read Tren by a long shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    mine was 90mg. sides (shedding etc) can happen between 120-150mg. bench was probably my weakest gain - 225-255 in 3 weeks (yes, i only ran it for 23 days). military press from 155-225 though was no frikken joke!

    like everything, all gains are based on your diet. also, make sure you dose your tren with peanut butter or olive oil, or flax/fish oil - minimum 5g with each pill

    so 3 caps per day? Yeah, I'll need 2 bottles. Sh*t, I can get it for under $30.00 a bottle so that's not too bad at all. What about PCT and support supps? I know it's not a methyl but still im gonna need somethin' !

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    Quote Originally Posted by angel77 View Post
    from everything I've read Tren by a long shot.
    Wow, its just Phera was an actual steroid used way back. I've heard some mixed reviews on Trenadrol, some indicating that the sides were not worth the gains, hence, the others stated that it was one of their favs. Everybody responds differently so this makes perfect sense. Using Tren Ace before I know exactly how powerful that stuff is but it does have some nasty sides as well. In theory, what are people saying that the equivalent dose of Trenadrol is to Tren?

    By the way, I like ur sig, it is a motto that I live by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mj34 View Post
    How does Trenadrol compare to Phera in terms of strength?
    never done phera. here's what i remember from a 23 day run of tren
    bench 225 went up to 255
    military press went from 115-225
    leg press (weak point) went from 360 to 600

    i'll try and dig up my log

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    pre cycle:
    max bench 225x5
    max squats 155x8 (i know that blows)
    max deadlift 165x8 (not any better)
    max pullup - body weight
    max skullcrusher - 100x8
    max preacher curl - 85x10
    max military press - 115x10

    final review :
    mad strength gains - went up insanely in all my workouts - and the strength lasted during PCT - i'm doing pull ups now with a 35 plate on me, and my bench is at 275x6. awesome gains, have lost only 1 pound, kept all strength, and i know if i finished the 30 day supply it would have been even better. did loose .5% body fat too. i'd give it a 9. i would give it a ten, but i definately felt my balls hurt on cycle (8x). great product. my strong areas of weights went up marginally (25% like bench), but my weak areas like legs, delts went up way more(50-100%). product rocks. if your weak point - mine is legs can go up that quick, it stands to reason that it will not only help break all plateaus, but also make your weak point one of your stronger points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suncloud View Post
    pre cycle:
    max bench 225x5
    max squats 155x8 (i know that blows)
    max deadlift 165x8 (not any better)
    max pullup - body weight
    max skullcrusher - 100x8
    max preacher curl - 85x10
    max military press - 115x10

    final review :
    mad strength gains - went up insanely in all my workouts - and the strength lasted during PCT - i'm doing pull ups now with a 35 plate on me, and my bench is at 275x6. awesome gains, have lost only 1 pound, kept all strength, and i know if i finished the 30 day supply it would have been even better. did loose .5% body fat too. i'd give it a 9. i would give it a ten, but i definately felt my balls hurt on cycle (8x). great product. my strong areas of weights went up marginally (25% like bench), but my weak areas like legs, delts went up way more(50-100%). product rocks. if your weak point - mine is legs can go up that quick, it stands to reason that it will not only help break all plateaus, but also make your weak point one of your stronger points.
    Sounds good may have to give it a shot. Anyone know when this new ban is supposed to happen? Also, what is going to be on the list. Suncloud, seems like you have got really good results. Have u used any AAS before and if so, how would you compare it? I'm new to this whole DS thing and its easier for me to think in terms of AAS bec that is what I know. Thanks.
    Respect,
    MJ34

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    Quote Originally Posted by mj34 View Post
    Sounds good may have to give it a shot. Anyone know when this new ban is supposed to happen? Also, what is going to be on the list. Suncloud, seems like you have got really good results. Have u used any AAS before and if so, how would you compare it? I'm new to this whole DS thing and its easier for me to think in terms of AAS bec that is what I know. Thanks.
    Respect,
    MJ34
    this was my first run with designers. i did try a LMG/Havoc pulse, but i got hit with walking pneumonia right when the LMG kicked in (week 3-4). based on everything i've read, i have yet to see a log where someone got as much out of a compound as i did (strength wise) - though SD is darned close. from here on out, tren will be used in every cycle, just because i know how awesome it worked for me.

    phera is supposed to be good, but not for leaning out. SD would be another good option, though liver toxicity is quite high.

    just sharing what i know (and don't know).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mj34 View Post
    Wow, its just Phera was an actual steroid used way back. I've heard some mixed reviews on Trenadrol, some indicating that the sides were not worth the gains, hence, the others stated that it was one of their favs. Everybody responds differently so this makes perfect sense. Using Tren Ace before I know exactly how powerful that stuff is but it does have some nasty sides as well. In theory, what are people saying that the equivalent dose of Trenadrol is to Tren?

    By the way, I like ur sig, it is a motto that I live by.

    i love the 19nors out right now and gotten good gains but you can't compare them to Trenbolone imo i've run it numerous times and it's just in a different league. to Phera i'd say 70mg of a 19nor is on par with 20-30 mg of Phera

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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    i love the 19nors out right now and gotten good gains but you can't compare them to Trenbolone imo i've run it numerous times and it's just in a different league. to Phera i'd say 70mg of a 19nor is on par with 20-30 mg of Phera

    Phera packs on so much more mass though lol.

    Strength wise they are pretty comparable...

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickrut View Post
    Phera packs on so much more mass though lol.

    Strength wise they are pretty comparable...

    depends on person. I get no mass or bloat from phera. I use phera for cutting actually becuz it kills my appetite and i've use the orginal

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    Quote Originally Posted by mj34 View Post
    Wow, its just Phera was an actual steroid used way back. I've heard some mixed reviews on Trenadrol, some indicating that the sides were not worth the gains, hence, the others stated that it was one of their favs. Everybody responds differently so this makes perfect sense. Using Tren Ace before I know exactly how powerful that stuff is but it does have some nasty sides as well. In theory, what are people saying that the equivalent dose of Trenadrol is to Tren?

    By the way, I like ur sig, it is a motto that I live by.

    Yeah, I have that symbol (patience) tatooed on my chest. I live by it. Cheers, angel77

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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    i love the 19nors out right now and gotten good gains but you can't compare them to Trenbolone imo i've run it numerous times and it's just in a different league. to Phera i'd say 70mg of a 19nor is on par with 20-30 mg of Phera

    Can you get Trenbolone anymore? Is it an oral?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    i love the 19nors out right now and gotten good gains but you can't compare them to Trenbolone imo i've run it numerous times and it's just in a different league. to Phera i'd say 70mg of a 19nor is on par with 20-30 mg of Phera
    Thanks mixed up. Its always good to have feedback from those who have run both the DS and the AAS. Good looking out bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickrut View Post
    Phera packs on so much more mass though lol.

    Strength wise they are pretty comparable...
    Ok, whats with all these huge strength gains with havoc/epi that I hear about? Sorry I dont mean to take this thread out of context. I just want to see how the TrenvsEpiVsPhera is in terms of strength gains. I use Test and Deca for mass so I'm not too concerned, just interested more in strength and later possible leaning out properties of these DS. Thanks in advance guys,

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    Quote Originally Posted by angel77 View Post
    Can you get Trenbolone anymore? Is it an oral?
    No that's real Trenbolone it's injectable usually comes ace or eth now adays there is an oral version but it is the most toxic oral there is along with cheque drop then halotestin

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    Quote Originally Posted by angel77 View Post
    Can you get Trenbolone anymore? Is it an oral?
    No Tren is an AAS that you inject . You have Tren ACe and TRen Eth. Very powerful stuff. Andro rating is 500 and Anabolic ratio is 500. A lot of people cant handle it and if I do it again I will use it only 35mgs a day. ED injects seemed to keep the sides more managable probably due to the fact that it keeps blood levels more stable. However; my friend on his first cycle ran Tren@350EW and Test@600 and used the Tren Ace EOD with no problems so it really depends on the individual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    No that's real Trenbolone it's injectable usually comes ace or eth now adays there is an oral version but it is the most toxic oral there is along with cheque drop then halotestin
    Forget about the oral version, yeah dont even **** with that ****. I hear its even worse sides wise than Halotestin. Good post u beat me to it,lol.

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