vicodin and h-drol

[jd75]

can i take them together?i have a bad back that acts up so i take vicodins time to time,should i steer clear while on cycle?

 

[bigpapa]

ask your doctor

 

[jd75]

doctors dont know **** about h-drol.i was just wondering if anyone had experience with this.it's not a big deal to not take vicodins,would aleve be better if i get pain?

 

[nosnmiveins]

just harder on the old liver, but i dont see much of a problem

 

[Knowbull]

I wouldnt. If I had a medical condition that was so bad I had to take Vicodin (one of the worst pain meds) I wouldnt take anything except a better med without tylenol in it

 

[jd75]

i guess i'll just take em when i need them

 

[The_Reverend]

Try and keep the APAP intake down to less than 1.5 grams a day. That's what puts the hurting on your liver. What kind of vicodins do you have? The standard 5/500? If so, don't take more than 3 a day.

 

[citystreets]

if im not mistaking, i believe vicodin disrupts protien synthesis

 

[mooch2321]

is this a pre-existing condition...i know a guy that takes vicodans every time he does a cycle cuz his back hurts...he doesnt believe me that back pumps are a side effect of a lot of orals...but he has no brain...

 

[SeanyK]

yea man could be the pumps, and if it is the pumps look into something other than pk's for that. if you're truly suffering from some pain other than the pumps thats so unbearable, opt for another opiate without the APAP such as oxy-IR's or even actual oxycontin... not if you're gona abuse em tho... im in the middle of an hdrol cycle right now and honestly feel no need to be poppin **** for my back. to give you an idea, i used to bump 200mg/day, and dont go near that **** anymore.... so unless you're currently opiate addicted, drop the pills, and save your liver AND your gains

 

[Knowbull]

lmfao..heart issues are "medical conditions"...back pains not so much.

LMFAO, who said anything about "heart issues"? Its irrelevant what "issue" it is, Vikes dont mix with anything period. If you want you can mix em, go ahead see how much progress you make and log it. Yeah, thats a great idea for a log!

 

[LilPsychotic]

can i take them together?i have a bad back that acts up so i take vicodins time to time,should i steer clear while on cycle?

I wouldn't recommend them together due to the high acetaminophen (paracetamol) content of vicodin. You're running the risk of excessive hepatotoxicity. If you need pain relief try using an NSAID, like mortrin, with disgression.

 

[tim1985]

If you really need the vic's then do this: crush up how many vices you want to take put to the side now take some ice cold water( the colder the better) pour your powder in there then filter with a coffee filter into a glass. All the gunk left over in the filter is the asap. It wont work with warm water. the asap does not disolve in cold water. A little will but the hydrocodone is water souluble so just drink the solution before working out. It will only take 10-15 min to hit ya enjoy.

 

[Lifeguard]

if im not mistaking, i believe vicodin disrupts protien synthesis

if you are referring to the acetaminophen or APAP in the vicodin as the ingredient stopping protein synthesis, then well...

the study that you may or may not have heard of done a UC Berkely a few years back paired up advil and tylenol against post workout protein syntheses, and yes the protein synthesis lost but here's the kicker...

the researchers gave the maximum daily doses as a single post workout dose!

tylenol: 325mg/tab 1-2 tabs every 4-6 hours = 3250mgs

advil: 200mg/tab 1-2 tabs every 6-8 hours = 1200mgs

trust me when I say that this is far more than an average person would intake in a 24 hour period....

my point is that the test was skewed and everyone thinks that if you take an advil, motrin or tylenol, then all muscle growth stops..and that just is not the case..ask any Marine or Sailor who is given 800mg Motrin (same as advil) to take 3 times a day and see how muscle growth is affected, not a whole lot.


Cameron

 

[mj34]

I wouldnt. If I had a medical condition that was so bad I had to take Vicodin (one of the worst pain meds) I wouldnt take anything except a better med without tylenol in it

If the pain is that bad I would go with Percodan because it has aspirin in it. I dont think that you need the extra liver toxcity but overall its not going to kill you but why add the extra stress on the liver. I would tell your doc that you think that you may be allergic to the tylenol in the Vicodin and tell him that someone recommend Percodan. I dont know how this will fare, it really depends on your doctors level of stricness with prescription narcotics.

 

[LAGear]

Sorry to bump this but I may have a similar situation soon. I have some dental issues that may require a root canal and may require Vicodin (or similar).

I'm on an h-drol cycle right now, should I abort and start PCT if I need the pain meds?

I assume that I'll only need the pain meds for 2-3 days max. Is that worth aborting over? Right now I'm at 50/day and will be bumping to 75/day in two weeks. I assume that the dental crap will get resolved while I'm still at 50 h-drol.

Thanks!

 

[dpfisher]

No, read the cold water extraction method in this thread. It won't get 100% of the tylenol but it's effective enough, probably 90+%. Crush tablets, stir into cold water, pour through coffee filter (paper, not the metal basket kind obviously), throw away tylenol left over in filter. You can drink the water or if you are really motivated you can dry it out and eat the powder. Some people don't stir the water but just crush the stuff up and leave it in the fridge overnight. I'm sure you can find more info on google if this is not to you liking, just look up APAP cold water extraction.

 

[LAGear]

So the problem with Vicodin is the tylenol that's in it. Are there any alternatives I can ask for that don't have tylenol or anything else that will put extra stress on my liver?

 

[dpfisher]

I really wouldn't, just because if you ask for something like Oxycontin, you might get labeled a drug seeker and never get any kind of effective treatment ever again. Actually Oxycontin is the only common one I can think of that doesn't have the tylenol. I don't think it's likely they would give you that since Percocet is the same thing with APAP and Oxys are usually used for really high dose long term stuff.

 

[LAGear]

I really wouldn't, just because if you ask for something like Oxycontin, you might get labeled a drug seeker and never get any kind of effective treatment ever again. Actually Oxycontin is the only common one I can think of that doesn't have the tylenol. I don't think it's likely they would give you that since Percocet is the same thing with APAP and Oxys are usually used for really high dose long term stuff.

Not sure what APAP is. Are you saying that Percocet is a good alternative to Vicodin or it's not a good alternative because of APAP?

Saw the dentist today who advised me to take ibuprofen for two weeks and see if that helps before he prescribes a root canal. I asked if I can skip the ibuprofen if I can tolerate the pain; he said NO I have to take the ibuprofen because the anti-inflammatory is therapeutic. It's not just for the pain killing.

So what should I do? How much ibuprofen can I get away with? The next two weeks of h-drol are 50 then bumping up to 75 the next three weeks. Or should I abort the cycle :dunno:

 

[dsade]

Not sure what APAP is. Are you saying that Percocet is a good alternative to Vicodin or it's not a good alternative because of APAP?

Saw the dentist today who advised me to take ibuprofen for two weeks and see if that helps before he prescribes a root canal. I asked if I can skip the ibuprofen if I can tolerate the pain; he said NO I have to take the ibuprofen because the anti-inflammatory is therapeutic. It's not just for the pain killing.

So what should I do? How much ibuprofen can I get away with? The next two weeks of h-drol are 50 then bumping up to 75 the next three weeks. Or should I abort the cycle :dunno:

APAP is acetominophen - and is horrendously harsh on the liver.

You can get away with an occasional dose of Ibuprofen, up to 800mg, without TOO much negative effect on recovery/growth. Keep it to when you need it.

Take advantage of hot bath soaks (like Zenquility - had to do it) and lots of stretching to ease the strain on your back.

 

[LAGear]

APAP is acetominophen - and is horrendously harsh on the liver.

You can get away with an occasional dose of Ibuprofen, up to 800mg, without TOO much negative effect on recovery/growth. Keep it to when you need it.

Take advantage of hot bath soaks (like Zenquility - had to do it) and lots of stretching to ease the strain on your back.

I really appreciate the advice bro, but I don't think the hot bath soaks are going to do much for my molars

I'll keep the ibuprofen use down to a couple of tabs a day or so. I can suck up the pain but the doc wants me to take it anyway to reduce inflamation. I felt like say "But I just started a cycle!" Ah well...

 

[dsade]

I really appreciate the advice bro, but I don't think the hot bath soaks are going to do much for my molars

I'll keep the ibuprofen use down to a couple of tabs a day or so. I can suck up the pain but the doc wants me to take it anyway to reduce inflamation. I felt like say "But I just started a cycle!" Ah well...

The same mechanism it uses to reduce inflammation (COX-2 inhibition) is exactly why it's deleterious to muscle growth.

Sorry, misread - I didn't see Molars.

 

[LAGear]

The same mechanism it uses to reduce inflammation (COX-2 inhibition) is exactly why it's deleterious to muscle growth.

Sorry, misread - I didn't see Molars.

Hey, you mentioned 800 won't be too detrimental to recovery/growth. But what about my LIVER?

That's what I was primarily worried about. Will that much ibuprofen with h-drol be too taxing for my liver?

 

[dsade]

Ibuprofen is not too hard on the liver. APAP is.

 

[dpfisher]

APAP = acetaminophen = tylenol

Percocet has APAP in it, as does vicoden. Unless you can think of a legit reason you can't have the tylenol, there is literally nothing you can ask for that won't make you sound like a drug addict.

 

[LAGear]

APAP = acetaminophen = tylenol

Percocet has APAP in it, as does vicoden. Unless you can think of a legit reason you can't have the tylenol, there is literally nothing you can ask for that won't make you sound like a drug addict.

I'm going to infer that there aren't any legit reasons for not having Tylenol. I mean short of claiming I have a diseased liver or something like that. If there's a legit reason please share.

Can I say that I'm taking Lamisil (or something else that is taxing on your liver?) and that I'd rather not take tylenol with it? Would that be legitimate?

Looks like a root canal is in the offing. Fortunately I've not experienced great discomfort from the procedure in the past. However, if the doc gives me vicodin and I'm in major pain then I'll use the cold water filter method to get the APAP out.

I know dentists usually give vicodin but is there a chance the dentist would give me percocet? If so can I do the same thing to get the tylenol out of percocet?

 

[dpfisher]

Same thing, I think. You'd have to check though, I don't know if oxycodone is water soluble.

 

[mj34]

can i take them together?i have a bad back that acts up so i take vicodins time to time,should i steer clear while on cycle?

You may be okay, but vicodin has tylenol in it and tylenol can **** your liver up too plus the fact that your running a DS. I would avoid it, and ask for something with aspirin in it, percodan would be the next step up and can be more addictive so be careful as well. I went thru opiate addiction at its the worst thing ever. Just tell the doctor that you didnt realize it had tylenol and your allergic to it, makes you sick and nauseous. Tylenol hits the liver hard and just think of all those that drink and pop tylenol like crazy, much worse than oral aas use.

 

[SeanyK]

oxycodone is most certainly water soluble. cold water extraction is your best bet. avoid apap at all costs. i avoid it like the plague.

 

[CoachG]

opiates

As a former opiate addict, I would advice you to steer clear of any opiate/opioid pain killers unless you are in severe pain. If you are going to the gym, you're most likely not in severe pain.

That being said, the cold water extraction is a wise idea if you are going to be taking them anyway. When I was using, I was up to around 200mg of hydrocodone three or four times a day, which, even with the 10/325's, is a LOT of acetaminophen. The cold water extraction probably saved me years of liver use.

The use of opiates/opioids while lifting is not a new one. Nubain, a partial opioid-agonist, has been quite popular with some folks. It makes training through the pain barrier and pre-contest dieting a lot easier.

Understand, though, that whether you are genetically predisposed to addiction or not, if you mess around with opiates long enough, you WILL develop dependency. As with AAS, you take them and your own production of endogenous analogues gets shutdown. This leads to more pain, which leads to more pills. Eventually, you need them just to not feel like crap. However, it is notriously difficult to convince folks of this. I personally had to lose everything but my life to accept it.

If that's not enough, hyperalgesia is not a great lot of fun. Check it out.

HYPERALGESIA, look it up.

To bring this all back to a muscle-building focus:

BEING A JUNKIE IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO BUILDING AND KEEPING MUSCLE. :684:

Although...prisons seem to have pretty well-stocked free weights.

 

[SeanyK]

i second that. been down that road and deep down it in the past. in fact getting back into training after about 6 months of mindless hell had a profound effect on me, and i can say is partly responsible for my success.

as for the science, it does cause vasodilation. but aldo reduces the rate of protein synthesis. as a cns depressant it also slows your digestive system, i.e. your metabolism, but also reduces appetite, hence the above mentioned nubain. i say 'it', but am referring to any natural, semisynthetic, or synthetic opiates in general, as they do the same things, all pushing the same buttons.

 

[LAGear]

Thanks for the posts and warnings.

I've taken Vicodin once before and absolutely hated the feeling. I've also had root canals before and fortunately didn't have much pain afterwards.

Looks like the root canal is going to be needed but worst case scenario I don't anticipate taking more than 2-3 tablets over the course of a couple of days. If I must I will use cold water extraction. And I'll see if I can get the doctor to prescribe something else without coming across as a drug user.

While I don't think these warnings were needed in my case I hope they will serve as warnings to others who will find this thread down the road!