Gonna first cycle just Dianabol

[flobot]

And I need help.

Thinking of just taking 20-30mg a day.

My questions:
1.) When should I take them? I workout 630am.
2.) What should I take while I'm on them? (Natural Supplements & Prescriptions)
3.) What should I take after a 4 week cycle? (Natural SUpplements & Prescriptions.)

I'm 5'8 172 lbs. <15% BF. 26 yrs. old (Old Enough.)

What I have:
1.) 10mg dianabol tabs.
2.) Clomid
3.) Novedex XT

I know you don't take Just Dianabol for your first cycle but say I am regardless of all objections, what do you guys suggest for my questions above?

I've read in other forums that it's OK for just Dianabol on your first cycle and according to Them take novaldex 10mg/ day while on it and clomid after. Prob is I don't have novaldex.

I've been taking the novedex by itself for 4 days and am surprised by how sensitive I am to whatever testosterone its adding. I actually gained a pound+ in 4 days without any additional fat. Should I continue to take it With the dbol or After the dbol w/ the clomid?

 

[flobot]

Bump

 

[Brolic]

sell urdbol

 

[Space]

A dianabol only cycle isn't recommended by any of the vets on this board. Expect incredible strength and mass gains during your cycle and lose a significant amount during PCT.

I would advise gradually increasing your dosage week by week starting at 15 mg to gauge your tolerance and include 0.25 mg of arimidex ED or 10 mg of nolvadex ED while on cycle to combat the significant buildup of estrogen as the dianabol aromatises to estrogen. Arimidex is the superior alternative to nolvadex but significantly more expensive and can be difficult to locate a source.

Dianabol has a reputation for rapidly increasing estrogen levels because it aromatises rapidly. Side effects of high estrogen include gynecomastia in susceptible individuals and generalised edema (water retention inside cells).

You shouldn't exceed 50 mg ED and duration of cycle shouldn't exceed 4 weeks. If you plan to stretch your cycle longer than 4 weeks, get a blood test at the 4 week mark and check your liver enzymes. Anything longer than 8 weeks is simply out of the question.

A final note, if you plan to run your cycle without arimidex or nolvadex, expect significant and rapid accumulation of edema and check for signs of gyecomastia regularly. A significant amount of your gains will be water weight from the edema.

Unless you control estrogen and associated edema, you will probably end up looking like this:

 

[flobot]

Wow, that's harsh but I'm grateful for the info.

How about starting at 10mg/day? I'll split the tab into 2 and drink 5 mg before workout and 4 hours later. Would it be OK then w/o Nolva?

Are there no natural/legal counters vs. 10mg/day?

Would Novedex xt and other legal stuff help While on the cycle?

Can I take Clomid instead of nolva During the cycle?

Thanks

 

[hyper24]

Mate dont take just dbol, listen to the advice given to you by people here and ANYONE that knows what there talking about.

Ive seen many people do a dbol only cycle, pack on the water/weight/strength and lose probably 80% of it once there off.

It really is a waste, if you accept that your going to lose pretty much everything then go ahead.

 

[siren05]

I agree don't waste your money or health mix in some test and enjoy.

 

[Space]

Wow, that's harsh but I'm grateful for the info.

How about starting at 10mg/day? I'll split the tab into 2 and drink 5 mg before workout and 4 hours later. Would it be OK then w/o Nolva?

Are there no natural/legal counters vs. 10mg/day?

Would Novedex xt and other legal stuff help While on the cycle?

Can I take Clomid instead of nolva During the cycle?

Thanks

It's generally discouraged to mix OTC products and steroids. ATD the prime ingredient of Novedex XT is an OTC aromatase inhibitor, so theoretically it could reduce the edema if you took 25 mg ED. But nobody really knows how effective OTC AIs are and there is a big theory practice gap.

Hyper24 is correct in saying you are likely to lose most of your gains during PCT with dianabol. Dianabol has a reputation for explosive strength and mass gains that are rapidly lost unless it's followed with a cycle of testosterone.

There really is no substitute for arimidex for any aromatisable steroid, particularly dianabol since it aromatises so rapidly. Arimidex was so rapidly assimilated into the arsenal of steroid ancillaries because it's so incredibly effective at reducing estrogen. Bodybuilders were paying $250 for a box of 30 x 1 mg tabs (dividing the tabs into quarters with a razor) when it was first released because it was so effective.

If you want to be probably the first person to ever try something you could run the dianabol at 15/20/25/30 for 4 weeks in total with ATD (novedex xt) at 25 mg ED.

I would like to make it clear that I don't recommend this because nobody has tried it before, but it's at least theoretically sound. If you do choose to do this you should run a log on AM and share you results with others.

 

[NasD]

I know you don't take Just Dianabol for your first cycle but say I am regardless of all objections,

This is just MHO but...I think the text in bold is going to keep you from getting more input...take it for what it's worth. Cheers.

 

[flobot]

This seems like a good idea. I'll post a log on it if I really can't find a prescription aromatase inhibitor. And I'll start at 15mg a day and see what happens in the first week. How much water weight is gained, if any gyno is present, etc.
week / week.

I guess I'll be the guinea pig and see if ATD is decent for a cycle. If I see tremendous side effects in 1 week at 15mg/day then I'll quit it and take the clomid immediately. But if not I'll go to week 2 and so on for a month at the most.

Maybe 15/15/20/20 just to be a Little safe?

It's generally discouraged to mix OTC products and steroids. ATD the prime ingredient of Novedex XT is an OTC aromatase inhibitor, so theoretically it could reduce the edema if you took 25 mg ED. But nobody really knows how effective OTC AIs are and there is a big theory practice gap.

Hyper24 is correct in saying you are likely to lose most of your gains during PCT with dianabol. Dianabol has a reputation for explosive strength and mass gains that are rapidly lost unless it's followed with a cycle of testosterone.

There really is no substitute for arimidex for any aromatisable steroid, particularly dianabol since it aromatises so rapidly. Arimidex was so rapidly assimilated into the arsenal of steroid ancillaries because it's so incredibly effective at reducing estrogen. Bodybuilders were paying $250 for a box of 30 x 1 mg tabs (dividing the tabs into quarters with a razor) when it was first released because it was so effective.

If you want to be probably the first person to ever try something you could run the dianabol at 15/20/25/30 for 4 weeks in total with ATD (novedex xt) at 25 mg ED.

I would like to make it clear that I don't recommend this because nobody has tried it before, but it's at least theoretically sound. If you do choose to do this you should run a log on AM and share you results with others.

 

[Space]

This seems like a good idea. I'll post a log on it if I really can't find a prescription aromatase inhibitor. And I'll start at 15mg a day and see what happens in the first week. How much water weight is gained, if any gyno is present, etc.
week / week.

I guess I'll be the guinea pig and see if ATD is decent for a cycle. If I see tremendous side effects in 1 week at 15mg/day then I'll quit it and take the clomid immediately. But if not I'll go to week 2 and so on for a month at the most.

Maybe 15/15/20/20 just to be a Little safe?

This will be interesting, be sure to make a log. You shouldn't feel apprehensive about increasing your dosage up to 30 mg if you tolerate the side effects well.

Clomid only PCT is less than ideal but should be adequate. You should take the clomid 100/50/50.

 

[edwards]

i'd like to see a log with before/after pics regardless. then more pics when you're finished with your pct.

 

[flobot]

Will probably start Saturday or Sunday. Is this gonna be the first time that someone will be taking the evil methandrostenolone w/o prescription support on cycle in this board? I'll post before pics when I start the log.

To space: I'll see after 2 weeks. What side effects should I look for physically and emotionally? Plus..what should I change in my diet? I eat around 4000+cals. a day right now w/ 40% prot,carb and 20% fat. Are there any additional vitamins/supplements I should load up on during the cycle?

 

[nosnmiveins]

To space: I'll see after 2 weeks. What side effects should I look for physically and emotionally? Plus..what should I change in my diet? I eat around 4000+cals. a day right now w/ 40% prot,carb and 20% fat. Are there any additional vitamins/supplements I should load up on during the cycle?

cycle support would be nice, just to keep BP, liver values etc in place.

start off with 25mg ED, after a few days if theres not side effects then bump it to 30-35mg ED. be prepared for some water retention.

dbol also has mood-heightening effects which is nice

 

[flobot]

Wee I could use some mood-heightening hehehe

Should I take more caffeine to counter the water retention + more cardio? How do you guys prevent too much water on cycle?

cycle support would be nice, just to keep BP, liver values etc in place.

start off with 25mg ED, after a few days if theres not side effects then bump it to 30-35mg ED. be prepared for some water retention.

dbol also has mood-hightening effects which is nice

 

[Space]

Wee I could use some mood-heightening hehehe

Should I take more caffeine to counter the water retention + more cardio? How do you guys prevent too much water on cycle?

Plenty of people have taken dianabol without an aromatase inhibitor or estrogen antagonist, but like it's been discussed they end up looking like the Michelin Man and gynecomastia can be a problem for those susceptible.

Theoretically the ATD (novedex xt) 25 mg ED should reduce water retention. Besides an AI or a estrogen antagonist the only way to reduce edema is a diuretic and diuretics stress the kidneys, especially on a steroid cycle. Cardio or caffeine isn't likely to have any discernible effect.

I'll definitely be posted to your log because I have long been curious as to how efficacious ATD is for reducing estrogen induced side effects with aromatisable steroids. The manufacturers of ATD have claimed that ATD reduces aromatisation of aromatisable steroids, but really the poof is in logs like the one your about to make.

 

[Space]

Will probably start Saturday or Sunday. Is this gonna be the first time that someone will be taking the evil methandrostenolone w/o prescription support on cycle in this board? I'll post before pics when I start the log.

To space: I'll see after 2 weeks. What side effects should I look for physically and emotionally? Plus..what should I change in my diet? I eat around 4000+cals. a day right now w/ 40% prot,carb and 20% fat. Are there any additional vitamins/supplements I should load up on during the cycle?

Physically you should press hard into your nipples every day and if you feel a lump, this could be the initial stages of gynecomastia. Don't squeeze the nipples because this bruises the tissue beneath the nipples and causes swelling and tenderness that can be mistaken for gynecomastia. If you feel itching around the nipples this can also be an early warning sign.

In terms of what water retention looks like, it is pretty obvious because water doesn't distribute it's self the same way fat does. Smooth flat deposits particularly around joints is an obvious sign. I have seen a really bad case where a guy looked like he didn't have knees or elbows!

Emotionally you should feel great! A real sense of accomplishment in everything you do and increased libido are common.

Your diet looks spot on. You need 21 calories per a pound of body weight to gain weight without excess fat accumulation and according to your stats you are averaging 23 calories per a pound which should be fine. Your macro nutrients are also ideal.

 

[Perfection300]

Weeks 1-6 20mgs/day.
Aromasin 15mgs EOD

10mgs morning / 10mgs late day. (if 10mgs tabs)

5mgs upon waking , and every 3-4 hours afterward.

DBol dosage along with Aromasin will make bloat a non-issue

If you do not gain & maintain your results from this cycle it is do to poor knowledge of training & diet. Wouldn't make one difference if you ran Test , Var, or anything else.

Dbol is far less suppressive to your HPTA then test so retaining should be somewhat easy.

MUSCLE IS MUSCLE no matter if ones gained from eating bull testicles , taking dbol , or taking test.

 

[hyper24]

Perfection300 I agree with you about muscle gained is the same regardless of how you got it. But theres a million other factors that come into play and im sure no one here can tell us the difference about muscles being gaine on dbol compared to muscles being gained using test.

Why can someone use test fo10 weeks and use no PCT and still keep most of his gains where someone uses dbol for 4 weeks, still isnt shut down compared to the guy on test yet still lose all his gains?

The only thing we can really go on is what decades of steroids users have shown us through experience, history is the best teacher.

And at the end of the day, ive seen many people use dbol alone, and hardly been shut down at all after 3 weeks use. Still have full libidio, had no problem coming off, yet still lost almost ALL of there gains, how does someone explain that in scietifict terms? And this is a common thing with dbol only cycles.

At the end of the day if he takes the dbol, and all the AI he likes so he doesnt bloat its not going to stop him from losing it. Regardless of his PCT.

flobot can you post saying "yes i understand i will loss most of my gains" and still go on to do the cycle?

PS, you said you have Novedex XT, now this isnt Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) which is the real stuff.

If your using a real steroid (dbol) you should get a real SERMS not OTC supps or your asking for trouble. Are you saying your ready to use a real steroid but not a real PCT?

You said you have clomid, if this is clomiphene citrate and not another OTC supp then you should be ok in terms of PCT. But even this wont stop you from losing gains.

 

[Jetta]

And I need help.

Thinking of just taking 20-30mg a day.

My questions:
1.) When should I take them? I workout 630am.
2.) What should I take while I'm on them? (Natural Supplements & Prescriptions)
3.) What should I take after a 4 week cycle? (Natural SUpplements & Prescriptions.)

I'm 5'8 172 lbs. <15% BF. 26 yrs. old (Old Enough.)

What I have:
1.) 10mg dianabol tabs.
2.) Clomid
3.) Novedex XT

I know you don't take Just Dianabol for your first cycle but say I am regardless of all objections, what do you guys suggest for my questions above?

I've read in other forums that it's OK for just Dianabol on your first cycle and according to Them take novaldex 10mg/ day while on it and clomid after. Prob is I don't have novaldex.

I've been taking the novedex by itself for 4 days and am surprised by how sensitive I am to whatever testosterone its adding. I actually gained a pound+ in 4 days without any additional fat. Should I continue to take it With the dbol or After the dbol w/ the clomid?

First, you didin't gain 1 pound of muscle in 4 days. You're deluding yourself. That is almost literally impossible.

Second, dbol only isn't a good idea. You'll follow a very predictable pattern. You will get strong, look like absolute ****, stop taking it and shrink right back to where you started regardless of PCT. In the process you will heat up your liver and experience possible worse E symtoms.

You can try the Aromsin idea noted above. Maybe that will work> I don't know. I'm just going by my own experience here. DBOl has it's uses. It's good to kick off a bigger cycle to get that immediate bounce. It just isn't very good on its own.

If you're not prone to gyno and don't mind looking like crap for a little while, go ahead and try it. I just wouldnt go past 4 weeks without blood work to check in on the liver.

 

[Perfection300]

Why can someone use test fo10 weeks and use no PCT and still keep most of his gains where someone uses dbol for 4 weeks, still isnt shut down compared to the guy on test yet still lose all his gains?

I've seen alot of people who ran test lose there gains. I've seen lots of people who run dbol lose there gains. Point being keeping what you gain comes down to LOTS of factors. Diet, Training, Rest, and GENETICS & EXPERIENCE. Who mostly wants to take DBOL only cycles? Noobies who are afraid of injections looking for a quick fix. Of course if they do not know how to train naturally they will lose there new found gains. That's just simple logic. Same if an uneducated user , used test, or even anavar. But the main factor is most consider the water weight from dbol as "GAINS". Say a friend does 50mgs of dbol....Very high dose that will cause lots of side effects including bloat. He tells you he gained 25 pounds during his dbol only cycle and looks very full *which is infact mostly do to water from the high dose*. But after he comes off he loses 15lbs!?!?!?!? Many uneducated aas users do not realize he lost mostly water weight and still has retained 10lbs of lean body mass, which is a huge gain for any cycle IMO. That's more than a 50% loss of weight, but the fact is most lose water and get bummed. Any experienced user will be able to tell the difference and should know how to retain gains. But most experience users STACK that's why you don't hear much about "keepable DBOL gains" from them. Only from newbies who want a quick fix and have no idea of training princibles.

 

[Perfection300]

And at the end of the day, ive seen many people use dbol alone, and hardly been shut down at all after 3 weeks use. Still have full libidio, had no problem coming off, yet still lost almost ALL of there gains, how does someone explain that in scietifict terms? And this is a common thing with dbol only cycles.

Here's a not so scientific term that fits...They don't know what the **** they are doing :icon_lol:
Again most who run dbol only , should not be running creatine cycles because they are not ready!


At the end of the day if he takes the dbol, and all the AI he likes so he doesnt bloat its not going to stop him from losing it. Regardless of his PCT.
Won't stop him from losing the water weight he gained post cycle if any, considering if he's running an AI along with a modest dose of Dbol bloat shouldn't be an issue and if it is it will be very light. If your talking about muscle gained, why would he lose it? Your body doesn't know the difference between muscle gained from DBOL or TESTOSTERONE! The quicker your natty test kicks in the easier to maintain....Dbol is less surpressive than TESTOSTERONE BTW.


.

^^^

 

[mooch2321]

first off this no dbol only thing is ridiculous! every single one of you has ran a prohormone without test, their is absolutely no difference between doing this and running a dbol only cycle. the reason u lose most of your gains on dbol is because its all water weight. with a good pct u can retain 70or 80 percent of your MUSCLE gains but u will lose all the water. some of the otc anti-aromataise products are every bit as effective as arimidex. my recomendations are to run the dbol at 50 mg everyday, and if u cant get arimidex try 6-oxo. will work just as well. and to the guy who said it is not recomended to mix otc products and real gear, no offense, but thats just crap.

 

[Jetta]

first off this no dbol only thing is ridiculous! every single one of you has ran a prohormone without test, their is absolutely no difference between doing this and running a dbol only cycle. the reason u lose most of your gains on dbol is because its all water weight. with a good pct u can retain 70or 80 percent of your MUSCLE gains but u will lose all the water. some of the otc anti-aromataise products are every bit as effective as arimidex. my recomendations are to run the dbol at 50 mg everyday, and if u cant get arimidex try 6-oxo. will work just as well. and to the guy who said it is not recomended to mix otc products and real gear, no offense, but thats just crap.

How much muscle do you really think you're going to gain in 4 weeks??? I guess you could take it for 8 weeks at 50mg but you start getting into shady territory there with your liver. Of course I remember dudes taking that crap at like 200+ a day.

I wouldn't do it but I gues anything is worth a try

 

[Perfection300]

Wont' be the first time or the last time but don't come crying asking why when you lose 80% of your gains or end up with "***** tits". Thre is a reason experienced people don't do dbol only cycles. Oh btw just for reference i have over 15 years experience and I have done a dbol only cycle and it was a WASTE of good juice so I'm not trying to come down hard on you I am trying to help your from personal EXPERIENCE.

This is ridiculous!

Some AAS that can give you Gyno, Drol, Test, Deca, Tren..... Dbol isn't the only one like you make it out to be lol. Eliminate the estrogen just as you would if you were sensitive in the first place even if you took Test as a cycle.

If you lost 80% of the muscle you gained it wasn't the DBOL's fault it was your own. Would have happened if you ran anavar! If the 80% of gains lost was water/fat etc. then that's another story.

 

[mixedup]

This is ridiculous!

Some AAS that can give you Gyno, Drol, Test, Deca, Tren..... Dbol isn't the only one like you make it out to be lol. Eliminate the estrogen just as you would if you were sensitive in the first place even if you took Test as a cycle.

If you lost 80% of the muscle you gained it wasn't the DBOL's fault it was your own. Would have happened if you ran anavar! If the 80% of gains lost was water/fat etc. then that's another story.

Perfection ofcourse other AAS can give you gyno but he is not taking them he is taking DBOL. He also does not have Letro a-dex or tamox. He has an otc AI. I never said he would lose 80% of the muscle when i count gains on dbol i mean the water weight fat etc. He is also asking other questions about diet etc. I feel from his post that he has not studied that much to be asking these basic questions. So yes maybe I was being a little dramatic but I rather give worst case scenariors to him if he is set on doing this cycle

 

[Perfection300]

Perfection ofcourse other AAS can give you gyno but he is not taking them he is taking DBOL. He also does not have Letro a-dex or tamox. He has an otc AI. I never said he would lose 80% of the muscle when i count gains on dbol i mean the water weight fat etc. He is also asking other questions about diet etc. I feel from his post that he has not studied that much to be asking these basic questions. So yes maybe I was being a little dramatic but I rather give worst case scenariors to him if he is set on doing this cycle

^^^^^

Gotcha. I thought you meant that WOULD happen to whoever used dbol.

I agree with you 100%, if you are uneducated in the matter and don't have your training,diet etc... down.... You most likely will lose all your gains after the cycle is over..... And maybe get ***** tits too!

 

[flobot]

Unless the scale is all broken again then I would say that 1 lbs. in 4 days is impossible but I'm telling you it is. It all depends on what and how much you eat and how hard you train and Rest during those 4 days.

If you follow any Muscle & Fitness type of advice and eat 2g-3g of CARBS in addition to 1.5g protein/lb. of bodyweight a day it IS possible because I've done it.

After reading all your posts though I've decided to hold off on the dbol only cycle. I'm gonna listen to you guys since I'm inexperienced in this thing. I'll research a bit more before I start anything and ask you guys for more advice.

I'm getting a few bottles of tren acetate and nolvadex too. WHen those two arrive then I think then is the time to do start.

So new question is: Is dbol+tren a advisable? Or should I combo something else?

First, you didin't gain 1 pound of muscle in 4 days. You're deluding yourself. That is almost literally impossible.

Second, dbol only isn't a good idea. You'll follow a very predictable pattern. You will get strong, look like absolute ****, stop taking it and shrink right back to where you started regardless of PCT. In the process you will heat up your liver and experience possible worse E symtoms.

You can try the Aromsin idea noted above. Maybe that will work> I don't know. I'm just going by my own experience here. DBOl has it's uses. It's good to kick off a bigger cycle to get that immediate bounce. It just isn't very good on its own.

If you're not prone to gyno and don't mind looking like crap for a little while, go ahead and try it. I just wouldnt go past 4 weeks without blood work to check in on the liver.

 

[Perfection300]

Unless the scale is all broken again then I would say that 1 lbs. in 4 days is impossible but I'm telling you it is. It all depends on what and how much you eat and how hard you train and Rest during those 4 days.

If you follow any Muscle & Fitness type of advice and eat 2g-3g of CARBS in addition to 1.5g protein/lb. of bodyweight a day it IS possible

So new question is: Is dbol+tren a advisable? Or should I combo something else?

NOT FOR YOU!

And just because you gained 1lb on the scale doesn't automatically mean it's pure muscle....... lol!

 

[Space]

After reading all your posts though I've decided to hold off on the dbol only cycle. I'm gonna listen to you guys since I'm inexperienced in this thing. I'll research a bit more before I start anything and ask you guys for more advice.

I'm getting a few bottles of tren acetate and nolvadex too. WHen those two arrive then I think then is the time to do start.

So new question is: Is dbol+tren a advisable? Or should I combo something else?

I presume you mean vials of trenbolone acetate or do you mistakenly refer to the OTC tren products.

Trenbolone isn't a beginners steroid. Trenbolone is very androgenic, has progestin induced side effects to be wary of and is better suited for cutting purposes.

If you want to do things properly then the general recommendation is to run 500 mg of testosterone enanthate for 10 weeks and run dianabol 15/20/25/30 for 4 weeks to kick start the cycle. For this cycle you will need 0.25 mg of arimidex ED, because this stack includes two aromatisable steroids. For PCT you would use nolvadex 40/20/20 and clomid 100/50/50.

This cycle would likely cause you to gain 20-30 pounds and would need to be wary of stretch marks.

Personally I didn't think your dianabol only cycle was such a bad idea for a first cycle. Mooch2321 is most likely correct in saying the reason why people lose most of their gains is because the edema subsides at the end of their cycle causing them to lose significant water weight and the whole basis of this discussion has been how to eliminate the water weight in the first place.

 

[Jetta]

NOT FOR YOU!

And just because you gained 1lb on the scale doesn't automatically mean it's pure muscle....... lol!

x100

Read any of the literature written by those who really study this **** - Thibs, berardi, poloquin etc., They all agree that gaining about 1/2 pound of dry muscle a week is just about the outside most that is possible naturally. Add a weak anabolic to the mix (e.g., most of the Pro-steroids and even Dbol) and you might get 3/4 of a pound a week. Scale weight doesn't mean jack ****. That pound in 4 days? I would bet the ranch that it was at least half water, quarter fat and maybe 1/4 muscle. IT CANNOT BE all new dry muscle..

And not, eating excessively does NOT MAKE YOU THAT MUCH MORE ANABOLIC. Even Berardi who seems to be an all you can eat and get huge kind of guy doesn't have his clients eat more than an extra 500 cals a day. More than that and your just gaining fat. Sorry.

Dont take my word for it. Do some reading.

 

[Jetta]

Unless the scale is all broken again then I would say that 1 lbs. in 4 days is impossible but I'm telling you it is. It all depends on what and how much you eat and how hard you train and Rest during those 4 days.

If you follow any Muscle & Fitness type of advice and eat 2g-3g of CARBS in addition to 1.5g protein/lb. of bodyweight a day it IS possible because I've done it.

After reading all your posts though I've decided to hold off on the dbol only cycle. I'm gonna listen to you guys since I'm inexperienced in this thing. I'll research a bit more before I start anything and ask you guys for more advice.

I'm getting a few bottles of tren acetate and nolvadex too. WHen those two arrive then I think then is the time to do start.

So new question is: Is dbol+tren a advisable? Or should I combo something else?

Also, I think "muscle and FICTION" is a phucking joke. If that is your source of knowledge, dude, you're already PHucked. Seriously, I'm not trying to pick on you but just set you straight. Look up Christian Thibideu, Dr. John Berardi, Ian King, Coach Charles Polquin. Those are reliable sources of reading....Muscle and Fiction is not.


Seriously on the DBOL. Go ahead and give it a shake if you want. It wont kill you. I just don't think you're going to be very happy with the result. Beleive me, I know

 

[fcpcjc]

no no no!

dont use nolvadex until pct.
dont use adex UNTIL YOU NEED IT.

dont taper. if you're gonna do it, start at 25mg. That's a good dose to start out.

and let me ask you a question. why just dbol? why not inject some test. to get the full benefits? i dont get it. are you afraid of injecting? if so, you don't need to be doing AAS period!

 

[fcpcjc]

x100
And not, eating excessively does NOT MAKE YOU THAT MUCH MORE ANABOLIC. Even Berardi who seems to be an all you can eat and get huge kind of guy doesn't have his clients eat more than an extra 500 cals a day. More than that and your just gaining fat. Sorry.

Not true.

Food is the most anabolic substance on earth. Eat clean foods and you won't gain "just fat". I'm walking proof of that.

Not everything you read is true. Try it out for yourself and see.

Jay Cutler eats 5,000 - 7,000 cals a day (thats 7 meals a day.. a bit excessive.. so are you telling me he's fat?)

 

[flobot]

I know that 1 lb. ain't pure muscle. Even if it's 20-30% muscle I'll gladly have it though. But it really is possible, if we're talking about Pure Poundage lol. And the M&F comment was sarcasm if you didn't notice hehe.

So no Tren A, crap. It's in a vial btw.

I'm probably gonna end up w/ a whole collection of AAS until I decide to start. And no I ain't afraid of needles but I need to learn or practice somehow how to inject properly before I start anything. Plus read up more and ask around more for the proper advice because I really would've combined the dbol and the tren if I didn't know it was dangerous for beginners.

Jay Cutler's a damn monster and people might say they don't wanna be him but come on..the guy's living his dream and is walking around at 300++lbs of muscle and subcutaneous fat. He's like a little sumo wrestler. But when he gets into his Olympia form, especially during the 2001 Olympia, it's simply amazing how a massive dude like that can get so ripped. Haven't seen him totally ripped in a while though.

It's olympia time this weekend, anybody watching? Any predictions!?

For me:
Mr. Olympia-->Dennis Wolf <--What I like my body to end up like.
2nd place---->Jay Cutler <--Monster
3rd place----->Phil Heath <--I think he's ready
4th place----->Dexter Jackson <--poor guy if he doesn't place within top 3

Not exciting w/o victor, kai and branch though. I personally like branch out of all the bunch cuz he just looks like a Regular type-you-meet-everyday guy that Really Worked Hard despite how his body is shaped, etc.

Not true.

Food is the most anabolic substance on earth. Eat clean foods and you won't gain "just fat". I'm walking proof of that.

Not everything you read is true. Try it out for yourself and see.

Jay Cutler eats 5,000 - 7,000 cals a day (thats 7 meals a day.. a bit excessive.. so are you telling me he's fat?)

 

[mooch2321]

How much muscle do you really think you're going to gain in 4 weeks??? I guess you could take it for 8 weeks at 50mg but you start getting into shady territory there with your liver. Of course I remember dudes taking that crap at like 200+ a day.

I wouldn't do it but I gues anything is worth a try

no....anything is not worth a try....trust me on this one. u run ur prohormones for 4 weeks, right? so why could u not expect to make significant muscle gains in 4 weeks using a real steroid. please guys dont take this the wrong way, but have any of u ever actually ran dbol? yes, u bloat. but u can also gain a lot of muscle.

 

[mooch2321]

x100

Read any of the literature written by those who really study this **** - Thibs, berardi, poloquin etc., They all agree that gaining about 1/2 pound of dry muscle a week is just about the outside most that is possible naturally. Add a weak anabolic to the mix (e.g., most of the Pro-steroids and even Dbol) and you might get 3/4 of a pound a week. Scale weight doesn't mean jack ****. That pound in 4 days? I would bet the ranch that it was at least half water, quarter fat and maybe 1/4 muscle. IT CANNOT BE all new dry muscle..

And not, eating excessively does NOT MAKE YOU THAT MUCH MORE ANABOLIC. Even Berardi who seems to be an all you can eat and get huge kind of guy doesn't have his clients eat more than an extra 500 cals a day. More than that and your just gaining fat. Sorry.

Dont take my word for it. Do some reading.

only 3/4 of a pound a week? u my freind have apparently not run tren in a bulk. and for that matter, whoever called dbol a weak anabolic?

 

[hungrywolf]

dun flame me. but i ve done dbol only cycle with low dose.

reason being to see how i ll react to aas and see how my hair loss and acne and gyno etc etc.

studies shown, less den 25mg of dbol wont give u water retention.

wat i did was 15mg every day 1 hr b4 workout. weekend off. for 10weeks.

increased to 20mg once i feel i can take 20mg with no sides.

blood work down b4 and after. doctor couldnt tell the difference. except he tot i was partyin hard with booze. lol.

my gym partner didnt know i was taken dbol secretly. so watever he lifted. i lifted double as heavy and double the volume/reps.(b4 that we have abt the same strength)

i got more vascular!!! better den any NO **** out there i swear.

i swear by low dose of dbol ever since.

after all didnt the early days bodybuilders and powerlifter/ american football players took 5-10mg only?

 

[mooch2321]

dun flame me. but i ve done dbol only cycle with low dose.

reason being to see how i ll react to aas and see how my hair loss and acne and gyno etc etc.

studies shown, less den 25mg of dbol wont give u water retention.

wat i did was 15mg every day 1 hr b4 workout. weekend off. for 10weeks.

increased to 20mg once i feel i can take 20mg with no sides.

blood work down b4 and after. doctor couldnt tell the difference. except he tot i was partyin hard with booze. lol.

my gym partner didnt know i was taken dbol secretly. so watever he lifted. i lifted double as heavy and double the volume/reps.(b4 that we have abt the same strength)

i got more vascular!!! better den any NO **** out there i swear.

i swear by low dose of dbol ever since.

after all didnt the early days bodybuilders and powerlifter/ american football players took 5-10mg only?

if you dont want the sides then run tbol, if your looking for strength with no sides then run var. the best thing about dbol is the sides...u run it for the bloat. extra weight means extra strength. no point in my opinion to run low dase to avoid the sides. run somethin else please if your afraid of dbol

 

[Perfection300]

only 3/4 of a pound a week? u my freind have apparently not run tren in a bulk. and for that matter, whoever called dbol a weak anabolic?

LOL really?

Dbol mg for mg is about stronger than every other aas!:icon_lol:

 

[Perfection300]

Not true.

Food is the most anabolic substance on earth. Eat clean foods and you won't gain "just fat". I'm walking proof of that.

Not everything you read is true. Try it out for yourself and see.

Jay Cutler eats 5,000 - 7,000 cals a day (thats 7 meals a day.. a bit excessive.. so are you telling me he's fat?)

^^
Did you just compare members on this forum and yourself to what Jay Cutler does?

Not realistic at all. He's on more drugs than you could imagine!

Again not very practical thurr.

 

[Perfection300]

no....anything is not worth a try....trust me on this one. u run ur prohormones for 4 weeks, right? so why could u not expect to make significant muscle gains in 4 weeks using a real steroid. please guys dont take this the wrong way, but have any of u ever actually ran dbol? yes, u bloat. but u can also gain a lot of muscle.

Most just go by what's parroted around the boards....

 

[Perfection300]

if you dont want the sides then run tbol, if your looking for strength with no sides then run var. the best thing about dbol is the sides...u run it for the bloat. extra weight means extra strength. no point in my opinion to run low dase to avoid the sides. run somethin else please if your afraid of dbol

Tbol- takes 4 weeks to notice real gains. Decent strength and size gains. But you need to run it 50mgs+

Anavar- Proven to help fatloss. Great for vascularity and brining on hard pumps and veins. Decent strength, not much in size gains.

Dbol- Strength gains, & size gains are much better than both even while running a lower dosage.

 

[mooch2321]

Not true.

Food is the most anabolic substance on earth. Eat clean foods and you won't gain "just fat". I'm walking proof of that.

Not everything you read is true. Try it out for yourself and see.

Jay Cutler eats 5,000 - 7,000 cals a day (thats 7 meals a day.. a bit excessive.. so are you telling me he's fat?)

umm...have u ever seen pics of a pro bodybuilder in the offseason? Yes they are fat, and that is the only time they are eating 5000-7000 cals. trust me, jay is eating nowhere near 7000cal precontest

 

[flobot]

I heard Arnold only did 10mg/day of Dbol.

 

[Perfection300]

I heard Arnold only did 10mg/day of Dbol.

That's speculation, & that's Arnold.

if you were to run 10mgs a day for 20 years straight you couldn't look like him.

I told you in my earlier posts how to run dbol.

If your going to run it , then run it!

 

[flobot]

Thinking about it.

Yeah I'll never be Arnold, but I might not use the AAS I have altogether.

I sincerely think now that just eating myself to 220 and cutting to something like 200 is entirely possible without the steroids. Or maybe even 205. At least when I'm that big and people are thinking if I ever used steroids I can honestly tell them that NO I have never cheated but I'm still bigger than You. (Not you perfection, 272 lbs. for my 5'8" is way too heavy lol.)

Reading all this has got me thinking.

 

[Jetta]

only 3/4 of a pound a week? u my freind have apparently not run tren in a bulk. and for that matter, whoever called dbol a weak anabolic?

No I haven't run Tren or any other AAS. Very brief stint with Dbol 20 years ago is about it. I'm going to do a cycle though next year. just wanted to get one more competition season under my belt before I play that wild card. Nice virgin receptors will probably take kindly to it at this point.

All my wildest dreams will come true if I run Tren in a bulk? Is that what you're telling me?

 

[Jetta]

Thinking about it.

Yeah I'll never be Arnold, but I might not use the AAS I have altogether.

I sincerely think now that just eating myself to 220 and cutting to something like 200 is entirely possible without the steroids. Or maybe even 205. At least when I'm that big and people are thinking if I ever used steroids I can honestly tell them that NO I have never cheated but I'm still bigger than You. (Not you space, 272 lbs. for my 5'8" is way too heavy lol.)

Reading all this has got me thinking.

You absolutely can get there without the drugs. I'm not sure how old you are but I'm guessing early 20's maybe. Sadly, you're coming of age at a time when the media sensationalises steroid use - has everyone thinking it's a quick way. When I was younger the **** was practically legal. I still remember (funny enough give the subject here) the gym owner in my home town holding a bottle of DBol at the front counter for me. Yeah, just sitting right up there next to a bottle of Ultra Fuel - lol. The point is, AAS wasn't a big deal. We all knew that taking it would provide a little extra bounce. Some dudes played the card; many didn't. I'm friends with other competitors my age who are all in very good shape and never touched it.

You should be able to put on substantial size with diet/training manipulation. Do that, gain a 10# a year over the next three or 4 years and you'll be amazed. Sounds like a long time but you'll be NATURALLY HUGE!! Do a few shows, see how you do. Get to know your body and how it responds to dieting for contest/bulking/ nutritns etc.

Then, if you still want to get that little bit extra run a cycle or two.. That's basically what I'm doing. Once more competition seaon and I'm probably going to run some kind of cycle.

Sorry to rain all over your dbold parade man!

 

[jay21]

ok big question i need clarified.
i can get d-bol i can get a-dex
now
if i threw them both together would i gains less water weight and would i decrease my chances of gyno?