P-Plex + (Havoc, MMV2, or M-Drol)? What would you do?

ajensen11

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I am looking to do a 4 weeker of P-Plex combined with either Havoc, MMV2 or M-Drol. This will be a bulking cycle so I am thinking that MMV2 would be a waste. Basically I am looking for mostly size and then strength.

Here's some background:
I’ve done one 4 weeker of P-Plex(15, 30, 30, 30) where in the third week my bench went up 20lbs alone. Also, a 5 weeker of Havoc(20, 20, 30, 40, 40) with 20mg M-Drol pulsed EOD or 2on-2off. And have just recently finished a 3 weeker of M-Drol (20, 30, 30) with 12mg M-TST pulsed on W/O days. After the two SD cycles I have to say that I am not too impressed with it compared to what everyone boasts about. Keep in mind that I was fairly clean bulking for each one.​

So tell me what you guys think? Which one would I see the best size and/or strength increases?

And dont worry about PCT as I have that covered, as always.
 
partyman43

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I am looking to do a 4 weeker of P-Plex combined with either Havoc, MMV2 or M-Drol. This will be a bulking cycle so I am thinking that MMV2 would be a waste. Basically I am looking for mostly size and then strength.

Here's some background:
I’ve done one 4 weeker of P-Plex(15, 30, 30, 30) where in the third week my bench went up 20lbs alone. Also, a 5 weeker of Havoc(20, 20, 30, 40, 40) with 20mg M-Drol pulsed EOD or 2on-2off. And have just recently finished a 3 weeker of M-Drol (20, 30, 30) with 12mg M-TST pulsed on W/O days. After the two SD cycles I have to say that I am not too impressed with it compared to what everyone boasts about. Keep in mind that I was fairly clean bulking for each one.​

So tell me what you guys think? Which one would I see the best size and/or strength increases?

And dont worry about PCT as I have that covered, as always.

Sorry...can't really help you my friend....as I am not a big fan of bridging 2 compounds(orals) anyway. Can you imagine what your liver would be saying after an M-Drol/P-PLEX cycle:wtf:


If I was to do it.....I would probably prefer falling off the wagon again:toofunny:


On that note....why not P-PLEX and H-drol....at least throw 1 different PH in there:woohoo:
 

ajensen11

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Sorry...can't really help you my friend....as I am not a big fan of bridging 2 compounds(orals) anyway. Can you imagine what your liver would be saying after an M-Drol/P-PLEX cycle:wtf:

On that note....why not P-PLEX and H-drol....at least throw 1 different PH in there:woohoo:

Well I wouldnt be bridging them, they would both be ran straight through. And at least P-Plex isn't dry, when I ran the Havoc and M-drol...talk about painful joints, even on high amounts of fish oils.

And I dont have any H-Drol since I've read it is really not strong enough in a cycle by itself.


So how about the P-Plex and Havoc, which is an anti-est in itself?
 
partyman43

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Well I wouldnt be bridging them, they would both be ran straight through. And at least P-Plex isn't dry, when I ran the Havoc and M-drol...talk about painful joints, even on high amounts of fish oils.

And I dont have any H-Drol since I've read it is really not strong enough in a cycle by itself.


So how about the P-Plex and Havoc, which is an anti-est in itself?

Any other side from Havoc and Mdrol?

What were your gains?
 

ajensen11

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Any other side from Havoc and Mdrol?

What were your gains?
Just the dry joints that were pretty bad.

Gains were pretty small, like 5-10 pounds on main lifts here and there (DL went up 20-30 but that's not uncommon for me in DL). And I only gained like 5lbs though I think I might have been at maintenance calorie level (I lost all my diet data).

Im not really a fan of pulsing, especially while running another compound straight.
 

ajensen11

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If you just recently finished a m-drol cycle you need to take a few months off before running another cycle.

Of course. Im a few weeks off of PCT and have a few more before my new cycle.

I always stick to: Time on + PCT = Time off
 

Liftingstud

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I am looking to do a 4 weeker of P-Plex combined with either Havoc, MMV2 or M-Drol. This will be a bulking cycle so I am thinking that MMV2 would be a waste. Basically I am looking for mostly size and then strength.

Here's some background:
I’ve done one 4 weeker of P-Plex(15, 30, 30, 30) where in the third week my bench went up 20lbs alone. Also, a 5 weeker of Havoc(20, 20, 30, 40, 40) with 20mg M-Drol pulsed EOD or 2on-2off. And have just recently finished a 3 weeker of M-Drol (20, 30, 30) with 12mg M-TST pulsed on W/O days. After the two SD cycles I have to say that I am not too impressed with it compared to what everyone boasts about. Keep in mind that I was fairly clean bulking for each one.​

So tell me what you guys think? Which one would I see the best size and/or strength increases?

And dont worry about PCT as I have that covered, as always.

Ummmm... stacking 2 methyls is never a good idea... PPlex and Mdrol = NEVER A GOOD IDEA! Both are VERY harsh and should not be stacked. And I wouldnt stack another methyl with either because they are so harsh by themselves.

You said gains were only 5lbs on a 5 wk Havoc with Mdrol pulse??? you should have definately gained A LOT more especially since you ran it for 5 wks. I mean people gain more than that on just Havoc. Also your strength should have definately go up alot more than 5-10lbs on your lifts, something not checking out here. probably diet, if i had to guess... sucks you put your body through that for only 5lbs.

Clean bulking??? When you are on you should always try and eat clean but you still have to EAT! I am 180ish and when I bulk I eat 4000-4500 cals. Think you need to get somethings in check before you run another cycle. Why run a cycle and then eat maintance cals??? Your body need even more fuel to build muscle during these times.
 

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Ummmm... stacking 2 methyls is never a good idea... PPlex and Mdrol = NEVER A GOOD IDEA! Both are VERY harsh and should not be stacked. And I wouldnt stack another methyl with either because they are so harsh by themselves.

You said gains were only 5lbs on a 5 wk Havoc with Mdrol pulse??? you should have definately gained A LOT more especially since you ran it for 5 wks. I mean people gain more than that on just Havoc. Also your strength should have definately go up alot more than 5-10lbs on your lifts, something not checking out here. probably diet, if i had to guess... sucks you put your body through that for only 5lbs.

Clean bulking??? When you are on you should always try and eat clean but you still have to EAT! I am 180ish and when I bulk I eat 4000-4500 cals. Think you need to get somethings in check before you run another cycle. Why run a cycle and then eat maintance cals??? Your body need even more fuel to build muscle during these times.

Yeah that first time on P-Plex I was eating 4500 cals and was not so clean. But I gained a lot of fat and dont think I am going to eat that much again. Even while ON your body can only use so many calories.

While on the Havoc and SD pulse I was eating maintenance, trying to get ready for vegas right after the PCT.

But Im thinking about P-Plex and Havoc, hoping that the havoc will help dry me out a bit. And Im going to keep my cals around maintenance + 500 cals.
 
partyman43

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Yeah that first time on P-Plex I was eating 4500 cals and was not so clean. But I gained a lot of fat and dont think I am going to eat that much again. Even while ON your body can only use so many calories.

While on the Havoc and SD pulse I was eating maintenance, trying to get ready for vegas right after the PCT.

But Im thinking about P-Plex and Havoc, hoping that the havoc will help dry me out a bit. And Im going to keep my cals around maintenance + 500 cals.

Lets look at this....What was your protien intake...was it 2x body weight.

I think people focus on to much cals and not enough protien sometimes
 

Liftingstud

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Yeah that first time on P-Plex I was eating 4500 cals and was not so clean. But I gained a lot of fat and dont think I am going to eat that much again. Even while ON your body can only use so many calories.

While on the Havoc and SD pulse I was eating maintenance, trying to get ready for vegas right after the PCT.

But Im thinking about P-Plex and Havoc, hoping that the havoc will help dry me out a bit. And Im going to keep my cals around maintenance + 500 cals.
Ughhh... maybe you gained lots of fat because it was not clean! Might be the first clue.

If you are looking to dry out some I would look more at something like Furazadrol. It kinda expensive to add because you have to dose it from 150-250. Definately will help keep your gains leaner and it not a methyl.

Yes, your body can only use so many Cals but to grow you definately need more than a few above maintance.

PPlex is very toxic why do people keep trying to stack it with other methyls. Plus it is powerful enough on its own!
 

Liftingstud

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Lets look at this....What was your protien intake...was it 2x body weight.

I think people focus on to much cals and not enough protien sometimes

If you are asking me... my protein take is always high around 2x my body weight. Also think healthy fats are very essential too. Often people use lots of protein and carbs but for get the good fats. I also love using Waxy Maize as my post workout carb because when I bulk I can take 100-120g after I workout and then a hour or so later eat again.
 

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Skip all the stacking and just get 4 ever fit's D-Drol or Pharma Resources Hemabolin 250...I have a supp store and people are getting really good results with these two products.

Hemabolin 250: hmmm... a 250mg blend of Havoc, superdrol and halodrol, then Trib (why is this here LOL!)... funny how they dont tell you how much of each is in it... plus 3 methyls, UGHHH!!!

D-drol: another blend this time 52.5mg of superdrol, "tren" (19-nor) and pheraplex.... once gain no clue how much of each is in there... atleast only 2 methyls but the 2 most toxic ones!

wonder how long the cycles are being run... I am coming out the with a new product... its going to have a blend of superdrol, pheraplex, havoc, and 19-nor "tren" Its going to be called Massive-drol and each cap will be 1000mg... GET HUGE!!!!!! Everyone will love this stuff and they will get MASSIVE!!! LOL!
 
smshannon001

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a lot of people are callin superdrol gynodrol..and
since you didnt seem to notice any problems with the superdrol except the joint pain..
im interested in what did ur pct look like since you seem to have it all in order since you limited the sides of what many condsider harsh?
 
UnrealMachine

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Phera bridged into high dosed Havoc

PP 20/30/30
Havoc 0/0/20/30/40/50

6 week bridge, use a real PCT and hit up your Cycle Support everyday
 
pistonpump

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do the PPlex bump the dosage and run the mmv2 preWO that should suffice.

for lifting stud, not everyone makes huge gains oncycle, imo if you are making 15lb gains with these short oral cycles you have alot more growing that can be done natty. 10lb gain in 4-6 weeks is alot imo.
 

Liftingstud

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for lifting stud, not everyone makes huge gains oncycle, imo if you are making 15lb gains with these short oral cycles you have alot more growing that can be done natty. 10lb gain in 4-6 weeks is alot imo.
Agreed. but he only gained 5lbs and lifts went up 5-10lbs in 5 weeks?

I would not run the phera with havoc/epi.

Phera and MMV2 wouldnt be bad. Just no experience with MMV2.
 
pistonpump

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Agreed. but he only gained 5lbs and lifts went up 5-10lbs in 5 weeks?

I would not run the phera with havoc/epi.

Phera and MMV2 wouldnt be bad. Just no experience with MMV2.
ok well i guess i overlooked the strength increase....not looking good there esp with those two compounds. Havoc gives alot of strength ime so you should be able to add more strength from that at 5 weeks. anyway.

I have no exp with mmv2 but ive read the logs and ive used DHT like compounds prewo in the form of m5aa.

btw, OP, what brands of superdrol did you use?
 

Liftingstud

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ok well i guess i overlooked the strength increase....not looking good there esp with those two compounds. Havoc gives alot of strength ime so you should be able to add more strength from that at 5 weeks. anyway.

I have no exp with mmv2 but ive read the logs and ive used DHT like compounds prewo in the form of m5aa.

btw, OP, what brands of superdrol did you use?
Looks like he used Mdrol which is a good clone.
 
pistonpump

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sorry i need to pay attention to details a lil better, been doing that alot lately.

Id run the phera with the mmv2 just because i have no experience with mmv2 and i think it would make a sick combo. You would prob have to bump up the phera a lil high since youve ran it before. Hairloss would be big concern on that cycle tho imo.
 

ajensen11

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a lot of people are callin superdrol gynodrol..and
since you didnt seem to notice any problems with the superdrol except the joint pain..
im interested in what did ur pct look like since you seem to have it all in order since you limited the sides of what many condsider harsh?
Yeah I was kinda worried about that too, especially since I got gyno from my p-plex cycle, which I got rid of months after with a bottle of letro (did a little) and a cycle of havoc (got rid of everything). And yes, this was real gyno btw.

For PCT I now run Torem at 120(3), 90 (4); 60; 60; 30
And run DTH + cortisol blocker(tapered down) starting around day 5-10.

I think I got the gyno from using ATD, and didnt taper down.
 

ajensen11

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Lets look at this....What was your protien intake...was it 2x body weight.

I think people focus on to much cals and not enough protien sometimes
My protein year round is around 1.75-2X bw. It should be lower when not ON since your body will start using that for energy if it is in greatest supply.


What do you guys think about doing a type of carb cycling while ON? Where your protein is always high but your carbs go from 1-1.5X BW on lifting days to <= 50g on not lifting days. Also, all carbs would be in the morning or peri-w/o.
 

ajensen11

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sorry i need to pay attention to details a lil better, been doing that alot lately.

Id run the phera with the mmv2 just because i have no experience with mmv2 and i think it would make a sick combo. You would prob have to bump up the phera a lil high since youve ran it before. Hairloss would be big concern on that cycle tho imo.

The thing is that Id rather run the MMV2 during a cut cycle, since thats what it's ideal for. Though I was thinking about it for keeping down the fat gain with the P-Plex.

The reason I am thinking about combining 2 is that I have already done most of these compounds, and I dont want to do more than 4 weeks (no bridging). I get shut down way too hard and takes me forever to come back, which is why I am going to run both Torem and Clomid (1 week) to get the boys back faster.

Also, I was worried about the hairloss issue as well, which is why I bought finasteride. Though look at
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/84122-m-drol-finasteride.html
Tripdog says it's nothing to worrry about.
 
pistonpump

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tripdog said whats nothign to worry about?


if you dont want to use the mmv2 then i would say 30 havoc 30 pp for 4 weeks....seems like you are set on stacking a lil heavy maybe that would work for you and not be too hard on the liver.
 
suncloud

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i'd pulse havoc and phera myself, but i haven't cycled either of them. however, that is the plan for my next cycle - which starts in a week.

30 havoc EOD pulse
20 phera EOD pulse

total body workout EOD to go with the pulse. i'm subbed as to what trip, PP and the rest of you guys think about these kind of cycles.
 

ajensen11

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tripdog said whats nothign to worry about?


if you dont want to use the mmv2 then i would say 30 havoc 30 pp for 4 weeks....seems like you are set on stacking a lil heavy maybe that would work for you and not be too hard on the liver.
yeah nvm about that page, it was about finasteride not really DHT. Helps if I read the post first...

But yeah, that's around the dosage I was thinking. Plus, like I said, I think the Havoc will help dry up the wetness of P-Plex a bit. Plus you have the added benefit of its anti-gyno properties, which is good for me.

Just need to mega dose my liver aid. Not sure about mega dosing the milk thistle since it will reduce the potency of the compounds when taken around the same time.
 

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Yea, Im pretty sure the people who take these products know the POSSIBLE side effects, Oh and only about 99.9% of the people who took these products got the results they were looking for. No one complained about joint pains and they are all repeat customers. For Joint pain MHP Relieve if someone were to have these pains. I took the Hemabolin 250 myself and gained about 15lbs.

I'd take everything I heard from a guy who works on commission at a supp store. My buddy use to sell kids 1-AD and the like, and even though he had no idea what he was talking about (great BS'er) they believed every word since he was huge.

But why not sell all of the support and liver supps with those compounds? Even more commission. Maybe even give them the name of some sites for research chems.

Just a thought...
 

ajensen11

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i'd pulse havoc and phera myself, but i haven't cycled either of them. however, that is the plan for my next cycle - which starts in a week.

30 havoc EOD pulse
20 phera EOD pulse

total body workout EOD to go with the pulse. i'm subbed as to what trip, PP and the rest of you guys think about these kind of cycles.

Well Im pretty sure Dr. D said that phera is not the best pulsing compound since it takes so long to see results, or something to that extent. Of course I read this stuff months and months ago, so things might have changed.
 
suncloud

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post 45 from : http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/62121-how-pulse-orals-2.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShapeUP
So One could Puls PheraPlex 20mg on WO days 3x per week 10mg pre and 10mg post for say say...6- 8 weeks and not do a post cycle therapy and not take liver aids?
I can't be undersanding this correctly can I?


Yes, that is correct. Simple isn't it! I'm betting 95% of the guys here could get away with a plan like you stated. Everyone is different, so always have a plan B for PCT, but after you try it once you'll see what I mean and know what works best for you. Getting 2 consecutive off days a week and dosing close together pre and post is the real key.
 
suncloud

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yeah, in his beginning posts, he seems OK with the idea of pulsing PP, then towards the end - especially the last two pages, people are saying its not a good idea, but i can't figure out whether thats their opinion of PP, or they tried pulsing PP and it didn't work.

i ran PP for 4 days once. had nasty back pumps because my water consumption was way too low. didn't know about taurine or magnesium, so i just dove into pct for a week and lay the bottle to rest. i found the bottle again a few weeks ago, and been toying with the idea of a pulse ever since.

if it builds up that quick in 4 days though, wouldn't it be pulsable, if sides are already present?
 

Liftingstud

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My protein year round is around 1.75-2X bw. It should be lower when not ON since your body will start using that for energy if it is in greatest supply.


What do you guys think about doing a type of carb cycling while ON? Where your protein is always high but your carbs go from 1-1.5X BW on lifting days to <= 50g on not lifting days. Also, all carbs would be in the morning or peri-w/o.
Carb cycling is a good way to go, but remember you grow on your OFF days and thats when your body is trying to recover... so remember to feed it at these times.
 

ajensen11

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Carb cycling is a good way to go, but remember you grow on your OFF days and thats when your body is trying to recover... so remember to feed it at these times.
Well technically you grow when you're not lifting, i.e. post workout.

But when I carb cycle I usually increase fat on low carb days to increase the total cals and to give the body something else to use for energy besides protein. Plus carbs are mainly used for energy, and I usually dont do any activity on off days.
 

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Not to mention No side Effects...
Did these people get blood work done to make sure they had no sides? I love how people take these compounds, SD and Phera, and say "yeah was great no sides" but didnt get there blood work done. Just because your body doesnt manifest phsycial signs doesnt mean there are not side effects going on internally.

Does anyone remember the results of blood work when these compounds first came out after solid PCT and proper support supps?!?!?! It wasnt always too solid with levels still off. That was with just one compound taken for 4 wks at lower dosages. And we will not even get into the liver values before PCT, those were super bad.

Now you have these compounds out that mixing SD and Phera or some of the other designer steroids and more and more people are taking them.

sorry about the rant
 
pistonpump

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yeah nvm about that page, it was about finasteride not really DHT. Helps if I read the post first...

But yeah, that's around the dosage I was thinking. Plus, like I said, I think the Havoc will help dry up the wetness of P-Plex a bit. Plus you have the added benefit of its anti-gyno properties, which is good for me.

Just need to mega dose my liver aid. Not sure about mega dosing the milk thistle since it will reduce the potency of the compounds when taken around the same time.
pp 30/30/30/45
hvc 30/30/30/30

id wait for the liver aids and take them post. Cycle assist or support should be fine. just be ready for any sides that may come.
 
Machine Mind

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I would go PPlex/Havoc. But I would let havoc run the show and keep Pplex at a lower dose for the cardiomegaly reasons.

And Havoc is in no way an anti-E. They just say that to legitimize their gray-market modification of the old Japanese compound.
 
partyman43

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I would go PPlex/Havoc. But I would let havoc run the show and keep Pplex at a lower dose for the cardiomegaly reasons.

And Havoc is in no way an anti-E. They just say that to legitimize their gray-market modification of the old Japanese compound.

Easy there big fella:gas:
 

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Ughhh...
If you are looking to dry out some I would look more at something like Furazadrol. It kinda expensive to add because you have to dose it from 150-250. Definately will help keep your gains leaner and it not a methyl.


I wouldnt suggest you to take furazadrol. I don't even like it and i dont even see any good result with that after i finished with my decabolen. It gave me so much acne on my face, chest, and back. It doesn't even shred any fat.. not much as winadrol did before. It sure give a nice hardness on muscles but i wouldn't give any credit for that, JMO. Good luck though.
 

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I wouldnt suggest you to take furazadrol. I don't even like it and i dont even see any good result with that after i finished with my decabolen. It gave me so much acne on my face, chest, and back. It doesn't even shred any fat.. not much as winadrol did before. It sure give a nice hardness on muscles but i wouldn't give any credit for that, JMO. Good luck though.
sounds like you ran it after your decabolen. I was meaning to run it Phera to help with the water retension keeping it dryer. Ran it with SD and loved the super hard look I got, along with the massive strength increase b/c of the SD.
 

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