Whats another Havoc question really - AnabolicMinds.com

Whats another Havoc question really

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    Whats another Havoc question really


    Just began my Havoc cycle today! Everything is in line including Pct.
    Stats:
    5'8"
    165 lbs
    previous cycles: halodrol 50/winztrol x2, Trenadrol, Bold/Epistane/h-drol/winadrol

    Doing a clean bulk, wouldn't mind shedding a few from the soft spots but anyway...my original plan was to run Havoc 20/30/30/40. Then i reconsidered it and 20/20/40/40 appeals a bit more, just so that i have 2 weeks at 40. however what about going for 6 weeks instead of 4?

    The reason i'm asking is because afeter searching on the forums Havoc users report seeing effects rather quickly, a few stated that they continued to see gains even a few weeks after and into pct!, as opposed to say h-drol which takes the better part of 3 weeks.

    Anyone think 4 weeks with one or the other dosage schemes (20/30/30/40 or 20/20/40/40) is enough lemme know, and please explain why this or that dosage scheme. And if anybody thinks 6 weeks of Havoc would be better please explain why and how it would be dosed.


    Note* I have 2 bottles of Havoc and i don't really want to be left with a 1/3 or a bottle after doing a 6 weeker. I'd like to save the other bottle for another cycle. But if somebody thinks it's worth it please explain.

    I appreciate all the responces and hopefully i can get over being such a neurotic nancy! oh my...anyway all inputs appreciated guys.

    F.

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    Havoc can be run for 6 weeks. You say you have your pct in line what is the setup? What are you running for supports?
    Ask me for samples of the new RecoverPRO and Maniac. 3Z is coming July 1st Facebook for more info and maybe a great deal on it coming.
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    Yeah, remember it is an oral methylated steriod, and you need liver protection, along with a good plan for restoring natural test levels after your cycle is over.
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    I am running Epistane for 6 weeks which basically uses the 2 bottle. I started wth a ramp up to 40mg week 1/40/40/40/50/50. So far, so good and I am into week 3 of my cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver3CSRT8 View Post
    I am running Epistane for 6 weeks which basically uses the 2 bottle. I started wth a ramp up to 40mg week 1/40/40/40/50/50. So far, so good and I am into week 3 of my cycle.
    Sounds good bro. What are you using for supports and a pct?
    Ask me for samples of the new RecoverPRO and Maniac. 3Z is coming July 1st Facebook for more info and maybe a great deal on it coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pembroke3355 View Post
    Sounds good bro. What are you using for supports and a pct?
    Supports consist of Multi Vitamin, Taurine, Fish Oil, AIs Cycle Support (Ran out and decided to try out CEL's Cycle assist now). My PCT will consist of Tamox, AI's Post Cycle Support and USPLabs Prime. I will also introduce Lean XTreme on day 15. I would recommend that as a decent combination to cover all bases.
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    Having run a havoc cycle for just under 6 weeks i'd recommend that you don't run the cycle for longer than 4 weeks.

    From my experience weeks 4-6 are when the more unbearable sides begin to show, lethargy and affected mood. Coupled with the fact epi is quite harsh on the liver, I believe you are only un-necessarily stressing your body by running the compound for longer.

    Lastly, the elevated mood (positive) that epi induces also disappears between weeks 4-6, it really isn't worth it running the compound for a couple of extra weeks in order to gain a few extra pounds.

    In terms of dosing, I would also recommend that you don't go above 30mg, I ran epi at 40mg for a couple of weeks and noticed no added benefits, save the other bottle for another cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver3CSRT8 View Post
    Supports consist of Multi Vitamin, Taurine, Fish Oil, AIs Cycle Support (Ran out and decided to try out CEL's Cycle assist now). My PCT will consist of Tamox, AI's Post Cycle Support and USPLabs Prime. I will also introduce Lean XTreme on day 15. I would recommend that as a decent combination to cover all bases.

    Looks like you got a good setup bro. Best of luck to you.
    Ask me for samples of the new RecoverPRO and Maniac. 3Z is coming July 1st Facebook for more info and maybe a great deal on it coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10195079 View Post
    Having run a havoc cycle for just under 6 weeks i'd recommend that you don't run the cycle for longer than 4 weeks.

    From my experience weeks 4-6 are when the more unbearable sides begin to show, lethargy and affected mood. Coupled with the fact epi is quite harsh on the liver, I believe you are only un-necessarily stressing your body by running the compound for longer.

    Lastly, the elevated mood (positive) that epi induces also disappears between weeks 4-6, it really isn't worth it running the compound for a couple of extra weeks in order to gain a few extra pounds.

    In terms of dosing, I would also recommend that you don't go above 30mg, I ran epi at 40mg for a couple of weeks and noticed no added benefits, save the other bottle for another cycle.
    I have run this compound 3 times and each of them has been 6 weeks and the sides are pretty bad in weeks 5 and 6. The hair shedding, libido, ED are rough. My mood was fine though, although I felt like a tough guy...haha. being on Havoc though makes you think of other supps. I have viagara for ED, DHEA for lethargy/libido and I am not sure how much it's helping. Finasteride I can't touch right now because of baby stuff. Test is just so much easier in that regard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10195079 View Post
    Having run a havoc cycle for just under 6 weeks i'd recommend that you don't run the cycle for longer than 4 weeks.

    From my experience weeks 4-6 are when the more unbearable sides begin to show, lethargy and affected mood. Coupled with the fact epi is quite harsh on the liver, I believe you are only un-necessarily stressing your body by running the compound for longer.

    Lastly, the elevated mood (positive) that epi induces also disappears between weeks 4-6, it really isn't worth it running the compound for a couple of extra weeks in order to gain a few extra pounds.

    In terms of dosing, I would also recommend that you don't go above 30mg, I ran epi at 40mg for a couple of weeks and noticed no added benefits, save the other bottle for another cycle.
    Looks like a 4 week cycle is the way i'm going, 20/30/30/40. I don't think two weeks at 40's gonig to make that much of a difference..if any i'm assuming it'll just come with bad sides like bad libido which is no bene, multo no bene for me.

    thanks for the input everyone. 4 weeks. 4 Days in and i swear i can feel a little of the effects. Stamina's gone up as far as reps. And my body feels much hotter...yea! i felt my body heat thru the sleave of my shirt yestarday at work, like a humid wind blowing from inside my shirt.

    Another question if anyone's got any tricks to fix this. My appetite is my worst enemy. I'm eating, and will continue to eat enough, more than enough for this cycle. But sometimes a fat kid at heart can only help but get carried away. any experiances with appetite suppressing supps or methods lemme know.

    Otherwise thanx for all the advice everyone.

    F.
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    bump anyone
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    Quote Originally Posted by fogie13 View Post
    bump anyone
    I definitely noticed a thermogenic effect from using epi, my body temperature was also raised and the simplest of physical activities would cause me to sweat, it wasn't an uncomfortable feeling though, remember to keep your fluids up.

    IMO you should try and keep you diet as clean as possible, from my experience if you eat large amounts of calories you will gain size, but all of it won't be quality. If I use epi again I will run a low carb diet that obtains most calories from proteins and fats.

    I wouldn't use the dosing schedule you are planning on running, If I was going to max out at 40mg in the last week I would dose 20/30/40/40, but as I said there is no point running it at 40mg, better off running at 30/30/30/30.

    libido shouldn't be an issue with a 4 week cycle, water retention will be a problem though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10195079 View Post
    I definitely noticed a thermogenic effect from using epi, my body temperature was also raised and the simplest of physical activities would cause me to sweat, it wasn't an uncomfortable feeling though, remember to keep your fluids up.

    IMO you should try and keep you diet as clean as possible, from my experience if you eat large amounts of calories you will gain size, but all of it won't be quality. If I use epi again I will run a low carb diet that obtains most calories from proteins and fats.

    I wouldn't use the dosing schedule you are planning on running, If I was going to max out at 40mg in the last week I would dose 20/30/40/40, but as I said there is no point running it at 40mg, better off running at 30/30/30/30.

    libido shouldn't be an issue with a 4 week cycle, water retention will be a problem though.
    I disagree completely with this statement. I have a very noticable difference when going from 30 to 40. I'm in the last week of my 6 wk 50mg run right now and the results could not have been better. Not to say that you personally do not need more than 30mg, but I believe that 30mg is a bit low for a lot of people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by larue38462 View Post
    I disagree completely with this statement. I have a very noticable difference when going from 30 to 40. I'm in the last week of my 6 wk 50mg run right now and the results could not have been better. Not to say that you personally do not need more than 30mg, but I believe that 30mg is a bit low for a lot of people.
    It depends on how you intend to use the product. If you are looking to make good gains and keep the sides to a minimum, then 30mg is the way to go, epi is a tiny factor in the equation, diet, training and rest are more important.

    I found epi to be an interesting product but decided it wasn't suited to my body, my biggest complaint about the product is the water retention, I'm wondering how you are coping in this area?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10195079 View Post
    It depends on how you intend to use the product. If you are looking to make good gains and keep the sides to a minimum, then 30mg is the way to go, epi is a tiny factor in the equation, diet, training and rest are more important.

    I found epi to be an interesting product but decided it wasn't suited to my body, my biggest complaint about the product is the water retention, I'm wondering how you are coping in this area?
    I agree that certain compounds work better for different individuals. I am almost a complete non-responder to SD unless the Black Dragon Labs version I got was s**t. The sides have definately been tolerable for me on this last cycle with lethargy being my biggest complaint. I do not like the water retention as it is a problem for me as well, but this cycle is in conjunction with a bulking diet and I don't mind putting on a few bad pounds that come with the strenth and muscle that come with the product. I really don't see the purpose of all this "lean bulk" nonsense people talk about. I can understand not wanting to get fat, but when I bulk, I bulk. I intend on doing a very slow cut in a couple of months in order to keep as much of my gains as possible.

    I can see your point and agree that 30mg can be a good dose if someone is really concerned about sides, but I guess I've been lucky in that regard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by larue38462 View Post
    I agree that certain compounds work better for different individuals. I am almost a complete non-responder to SD unless the Black Dragon Labs version I got was s**t. The sides have definately been tolerable for me on this last cycle with lethargy being my biggest complaint. I do not like the water retention as it is a problem for me as well, but this cycle is in conjunction with a bulking diet and I don't mind putting on a few bad pounds that come with the strenth and muscle that come with the product. I really don't see the purpose of all this "lean bulk" nonsense people talk about. I can understand not wanting to get fat, but when I bulk, I bulk. I intend on doing a very slow cut in a couple of months in order to keep as much of my gains as possible.

    I can see your point and agree that 30mg can be a good dose if someone is really concerned about sides, but I guess I've been lucky in that regard.
    The good news about the water retention issues, is the fact you should drop most of the water within a week of completing your cycle, unfortuntately it may distort your results in terms of total gains from the cycle. Though I think this is a feature associated with any short term oral cycle, 6 weeks just isn't enough time for the body to fortify muscle gains. IMO you have done well if you can maintain a third of your gains following PCT, if your diet and training regime are really dialed in you may retain more, creatine should assist you with muscle maintainence.
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    i've done well with keeping most of my strength gains as well. For pct i'll be running torem, milk thistle, post cycle tabs, lean xtreme, creatine, and of course continuing my bcaas, protein, multi, and fish oil. After the end of the 4th wk of pct I will use some transdermal form for about 2 weeks. Seems to work so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by larue38462 View Post
    i've done well with keeping most of my strength gains as well. For pct i'll be running torem, milk thistle, post cycle tabs, lean xtreme, creatine, and of course continuing my bcaas, protein, multi, and fish oil. After the end of the 4th wk of pct I will use some transdermal form for about 2 weeks. Seems to work so far.
    Looks like you have a solid plan in place, I wish you all the best.

    Bye the way, I like your avatar, Mariza is absolutely awesome!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fogie13 View Post
    Looks like a 4 week cycle is the way i'm going, 20/30/30/40. I don't think two weeks at 40's gonig to make that much of a difference..if any i'm assuming it'll just come with bad sides like bad libido which is no bene, multo no bene for me.

    thanks for the input everyone. 4 weeks. 4 Days in and i swear i can feel a little of the effects. Stamina's gone up as far as reps. And my body feels much hotter...yea! i felt my body heat thru the sleave of my shirt yestarday at work, like a humid wind blowing from inside my shirt.

    Another question if anyone's got any tricks to fix this. My appetite is my worst enemy. I'm eating, and will continue to eat enough, more than enough for this cycle. But sometimes a fat kid at heart can only help but get carried away. any experiances with appetite suppressing supps or methods lemme know.

    Otherwise thanx for all the advice everyone.

    F.
    Dude you've got your dosages all planned out and you're ready to go. If you're trying to bulk and keep it clean just eat clean foods and make sure you're getting enough protein. If you're worried about too much fat gain you can use fitday.com to track your macros and be sure that you're macro timing is on par.
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    Quote Originally Posted by larue38462 View Post
    Dude you've got your dosages all planned out and you're ready to go. If you're trying to bulk and keep it clean just eat clean foods and make sure you're getting enough protein. If you're worried about too much fat gain you can use fitday.com to track your macros and be sure that you're macro timing is on par.
    I appreciate all the advice man, and to everyone. So far definately some water retention but cals are up, day 8 and strength is, shockingly, way the **** up here! see where my hand is? yea..up here. but still, last question, anyone know of how to curb u're appetite a bit? like i said too many times once a fat kid always a fat kid..i can easily do 5000 if left unattended and with opportunities to hybernate inbetween lifting haha! anyway larue38462, sending u a pm. hope u can help.

    f.

    F.
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    I have been adding the poor mans ECA stack to help with hunger and burning off a few calories.

    It consists of CVS or walmart brand Psuedophedrine, store brand Asprin and caffine pills. It seems to help out pretty good and definately provides a good stim affect and curbs appitite some. Be careful on the blood pressure though while "on" cycle with the ECA stack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver3CSRT8 View Post
    I have been adding the poor mans ECA stack to help with hunger and burning off a few calories.

    It consists of CVS or walmart brand Psuedophedrine, store brand Asprin and caffine pills. It seems to help out pretty good and definately provides a good stim affect and curbs appitite some. Be careful on the blood pressure though while "on" cycle with the ECA stack.
    I think i'm gong to keep my eca on the "to do' list but...i dunno i weighed in today and iwas pretty shocked. Havoc increases my appetitie quite a bit. I dunno man, i may have to reconsider the eca on cycle idea if this keeps up. Hoodias a scam if u ask me.
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