Actual Gains....

[bbkhan87]

you hear everybody talk about "man i gained 15 pounds with mdrol" or "ya i gained 10 pounds with epi" but how much of these gains are actually muscle? i know everyones gonna answer to this with "give me your stats or blah blah blah" but as an average estimate with a bulking diet with someone that is pretty experienced with training and prosteroids. I heard on a different board that a guy once said that if you can gain and keep 3 actual pounds of muscle from a 12 week test cycle, that is awesome, seroiusly!?!?! If im gonna get crappy gains like that than i might as well train naturally. Anyways how good are these prosteroids like epi. Im running a 4 week epi at 30mg my stats are 6 foot 196 8-9% bodyfat, experienced, done couple of old school supadrol cycles way back.

 

[ezza]

get some body fat scales and you can answer your own question.. most will measure bodyfat percentage and water percentage... they aren't the most accurate but good enough to use as a monitoring tool.

 

[Jetta]

Most strength/conditioning/nutrition authorities suggest that 1/2# of new dry muscle per week is the outside most that anyone, under the best natural circumstances, is going to gain. That means perfect training, nutrition, recovery, rest.

Add Pro-seroids to the mix and you will increase the max slightly - again under the best of circumstances.

Most of the guys saying "I gained 15 pound of muscle in 4 weeks" are way too fat to know whether they gained muscle or fat. No offense to anyone but some of the logs show guys who are not even physically fit yet, let alone lean doing these drugs. For those guys PS's are a monumental waste of money and risk to health. It's evident just by looking at most of them that they have neither their training nor diet down.

So these guys forge ahead eating 2000 calories a day and getting anouther 3000 calories from their favorite shakes, they gain 15 pounds, and because they don't look a whole lot different, they say, "hey, I gained 15 pounds of muscle!". In reality they likely gained mostly fat/water and a little new muscle.

AAS/PS will give you a slight edge if you're already in superior physical condition. If you're not, save your money.

 

[holyintellect]

I honestly dont think more than 5# of REAL MUSCLE is likely to happen with most cycles....maybe slightly more depending on other variables, but not likely. The biggest portion of weight gain will be water, accompanied by fat for most users who have no true grip on their nutrition/workouts. Im an NPC Judge, and I have seen many cases of guys moving up a weight class after one offseason, but almost without exception the guys were either freaks or simply put on more weight than they should have. In an unaided bodybuilder, 5# of muscle in a year or so is a great feat...so if you could do it in 10-12 weeks, thats not so bad is it?

holy

 

[bbkhan87]

thanks guys im 2 days into an epi cycle im going to stop it. no need for me to go buy my pct and waste my money

 

[nosnmiveins]

thanks guys im 2 days into an epi cycle im going to stop it. no need for me to go buy my pct and waste my money

just stick to injectable. i used Havoc at the tail end of my test cycle leading into pct and didnt notice much of anything besides terrible headaches and dark yellow piss....but strength did go up slightly.

a little O/T, but the one thing that bugs me the most is ppl using shakes as 60-70% of their diet....its rediculous. eat solid food!!!!

/rant

 

[Rugger]

I gained 19-20 pounds of something from cycle of Havoc, 2.5 months later I'm still up about 12 from where I started. I didn't gain any visible fat, but I did feel bloated. My arms and lats are still visibly much bigger than they were. Totally satisfied over here.

 

[maurice02]

On my first cycle of hdrol I went form 208 to 224....so 16 pounds of something. yes, some was fat. I could tell. Anyways, after pct I ended at about 217. My shoulders and chest ballooned out. That was over 5 weeks. Yes, there was some fat gain but in the end i would consider a lot of it muscle that was left after my pct.

 

[bbkhan87]

injectables huh, so 12 weeksof test would provide some dramatic change huh

 

[holyintellect]

injectables huh, so 12 weeksof test would provide some dramatic change huh

Compared to epi? Hells yeah.

holy

 

[Movin_weight]

newbs and virgin cyclers might gain 6-8lbs of lean muscle in a month... but for most of us we'd have to settle for roughly a lb of lean muscle per week at best

 

[bbkhan87]

my whole point is that if im not going to gain dramtically over what i naturally could i wont even go through the hassel of cycling and pct ya know

 

[mixedup]

my whole point is that if im not going to gain dramtically over what i naturally could i wont even go through the hassel of cycling and pct ya know

well it depends on what you think dramatic is. I mean as Holy posted avg would be 5lbs of real muscle a year maybe. vs 5lbs in a cycle. If it's your first cycle the drains can definetly be dramatic. 3months vs 12 months that's pretty dramatic imo

 

[holyintellect]

Obviously the 5 pounds is just a number that Ive used to illustrate gains...it could certainly be more, but the point is you're not going to put on 20 pounds of muscle. Physiologically impossible.

holy

 

[Jetta]

my whole point is that if im not going to gain dramtically over what i naturally could i wont even go through the hassel of cycling and pct ya know

Exactly.

 

[bbkhan87]

oh ok sweet than are prosteroids worth it if one doesnt want to do gear

 

[Space]

It's physically possible to put on 20 pounds of muscle on a 12 week AAS cycle of 600 mg test + 400 mg deca + 25 mg D-bol.

But I wouldn't do it!

 

[Jetta]

oh ok sweet than are prosteroids worth it if one doesnt want to do gear

I'm not saying that they are not worth it. they might be; they might not. It depends on you. I can give you a real life example, me.

2 years ago 15+% BF. Did a cylce of Halafrol/Orastan A. Gained about 20#. My diet was 'so-so', training was the same old thing I had always done. I thought I gained all muscle because I didn't look much different (condition wise) but I was visably bigger and my pants still fit. Also, I was stronger. Truth: I was a fat ass when I started and I was a fatter ass when I ended the cycle. It's just that the difference in 'condition' is not that visable when you go from 15 - 20% body fat.

Fast forward to today: My diet and training is perfect. I can tell you down to the oz./gram what I will put in my body for the week to follow and EXACTLY why I'm eating it. I have enough control and consistency to know the effect that a very minor change is having on me. Also, I'm 10% BF max, perhaps less. I have a definitive goal: I want to be 5# heavier and a couple of digits leaner for my next show in the spring. A quick hit with PS's now might give me that edge with enough Cutting time left so I'm going for it.

All I'm saying is that these compounds can add some limited value but most guys are not going to realize it becase they are unrealistic about:
* What these compounds can do
* How fat they really are today
* The quality of their current diet/training

I'm 1 week in and noticing differences (subtle differences) physically. I would never notice this at 15+% fat.

So, unless you have a solid goal for why you're doing this and your in good shape with good diet/training, I just say don't burn your liver or your wallet.

These are my two (or three) cents. I realize that I'm 'no fun'. Also, the supplement company reps,and chiesters selling the ****, would obviously disagree with everything I'm saying here.

 

[bbkhan87]

im just gonna do injectable test than quit wasting my time with the prosteroids

 

[Jetta]

im just gonna do injectable test than quit wasting my time with the prosteroids

Certainly a good approach if you're going to put your body through this anyway. I probably would have considered that route too except for my source of choice is spending 60 days at the local "Country Club" "

 

[bbkhan87]

im sorry bro i figure safer and way better gains, why not

 

[Zero V]

Each individual responds differently too....aren't there people that a PH/PS wont really effect at all? I roughly remember someone suffering from that fate.

 

[Knowbull]

I think its pretty much a subjective thing. I know for a fact that I wouldnt look the way I do if I hadnt done some PH cycles with my training. Everyone does respond differently to them although I cant imagine anyone who paid attention to diet and training not seeing an improvement in physique, even years later.

 

[futurepilot]

Each individual responds differently too....aren't there people that a PH/PS wont really effect at all? I roughly remember someone suffering from that fate.

He may be the 1% that doesnt respond, but most people that say they are non-responders just didnt put any effort into their cycle, or were lacking in some area ie. training, nutrition etc.

 

[bbkhan87]

my boy brendan completely changed his physique since last year he weighs 20 pounds heavier this year and is leaner. He only does otc so i dont know how much muscle he gained but it was dramtic. Hard work consistancy and diet supplemented with ph/ps thats what im gonna do

 

[Zero V]

well I starts serous lifting in January, I weighed about 130 of muscle and a couple pounds of fat. I am at 141, and WILL be 150 at least by this jan. 20 pounds, 1 year, no steroids.....then again This was my big get back into lifting year newb gains. Well the first half at least, this last half is hard gainnage.

 

[poacher]

It's physically possible to put on 20 pounds of muscle on a 12 week AAS cycle of 600 mg test + 400 mg deca + 25 mg D-bol.

But I wouldn't do it!

OH MAMA - that would do it, think i like it