Prevent Testicular Shrinkage with a New Legal hCG Alternative -- 7,8 Benzoflavone

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    Exclamation Prevent Testicular Shrinkage with a New Legal hCG Alternative -- 7,8 Benzoflavone


    AM members,

    I’m very excited to share some new information with you.

    New research is suggesting that 7,8-benzoflavone is capable of reversing the negative feedback loop at the hypothalamus via modulation of the GABA/opioid receptor complex.

    In other words, 7,8 Benzoflavone could potentially be used to stimulate LH & FSH during a steroid cycle and prevent shutdown of the HPTA. For those that aren’t familiar with 7,8-benzoflavone, it is a natural occurring flavonoid from passionflower, and is the main ingredient in Sustain Alpha.

    So how do we intend to prove this?

    Glad you asked. You see, if LH & FSH rise after using Sustain Alpha during a cycle, then we know that it is preventing suppression of the HPTA and stimulating the testes in a way similar to hCG. If this is proves to be true, this could replace the need for on-cycle hCG, and prevent testicular shrinkage. (assuming its used early enough in the cycle)

    So, here is the plan…

    1. Get on cycle.
    2. Test for LH & FSH after two weeks of being “on”.
    3. Apply 10 pumps of Sustain Alpha, for 2 days.
    4. Retest LH & FSH levels.

    Ideally, the first blood test will reveal non-existent LH & FSH levels. Then, after the Sustain is used for 48hrs, we are hoping the tests will reveal “normal” levels of LH & FSH. (thus proving that Sustain Alpha can stimulate natural Testosterone production, even during a cycle)

    Luckily, there are home blood test kits available that can test LH & FSH levels with a pin prick. (All you do is send the samples back to a 3rd party lab, and results show up in 1-2 weeks)

    Now, we figured that you guys would want to see some blood test results from actual members…

    So, Primordial Performance has elected to supply blood testing kits for several prominent members of the forum. All we ask is that you post up the following stats in this thread –

    Age
    Current [or soon to be] cycle (including all AAS, ancillaries, and doses)
    Past cycles (including all AAS, ancillaries, and doses)
    Any hormonal blood work

    If you are chosen, we will supply you with (2) ZRT blood test kits that will test for LH & FSH levels. In order to prove your dedication to the testing, we simply ask that you purchase (1) Sustain Alpha to use for the trial.

    So let’s have it! Post your stats, questions, comments, and criticism!

    -Pp

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    What are your thoughts as far as someone who is post cycle or in an extended TRT program. Do you anticipate it will restore the LH & FSH levels and testicular size in this environment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by glg View Post
    What are your thoughts as far as someone who is post cycle or in an extended TRT program. Do you anticipate it will restore the LH & FSH levels and testicular size in this environment?
    It depends.

    For this to work you will need fresh and sensitive leydig cells... which means you would have to begin the Sustain within 2-3 weeks of starting a cycle for the LH & FSH release to have a sufficient impact on testicular stimulation and testosterone production.

    Someone who has been chronically suppressed or who has been on an HRT regimen for months or years, would likely need the blunt force of actual hCG to awaken and stimulate the testes.

    -Pp
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    Wow, this is really cool.

    I might have to hit this up.
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    Hell, i'd be game to try it out for myself in the near future eric. I'm not completely convinced(the negative feedback loop is a very tricky and complex mechanism), but i'm always optimistic overall. The glass is half full!

    I really like your drive, dedication, and formulary of your products my friend. GREAT opportunity here for all involved!

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    Glad to see you pursuing this Eric... very interesting stuff. Bump for additional views!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    It depends.

    For this to work you will need fresh and sensitive leydig cells... which means you would have to begin the Sustain within 2-3 weeks of starting a cycle for the LH & FSH release to have a sufficient impact on testicular stimulation and testosterone production.

    Someone who has been chronically suppressed or who has been on an HRT regimen for months or years, would likely need the blunt force of actual hCG to awaken and stimulate the testes.

    -Pp
    and if we start on day 1 of cycle
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    Very interesting! This could be quite pivotal if true.

    Might the FSH/LH levels take longer than 48 hours to return to pre-cycle levels (I don't have too much technical knowledge about FSH/LH production/response time)?
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    week 1: Havoc 20mg ED
    week 2: Havoc 20mg ED / Anavar 70mg ED
    week 3: Havoc 30mg ED / Anavar 80mg ED
    week 4: Havoc 30mg ED / Anavar 90mg ED
    week 5: Havoc 20mg ED / Anavar 90mg ED
    week 6: Anavar 100mg ED
    week 7: Avavar 100mg ED
    week 8: Clomid 100mg ED / Nolva 30mg ED
    week 9: Clomid 75mg ED / Nolva 20mg ED
    week 10: Clomid 50mg ED / Nolva 20mg ED
    week 11: Nolva 10mg ED

    do I qualify. I am on week one.. day two specifically
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    Very interesting! This could be quite pivotal if true.

    Might the FSH/LH levels take longer than 48 hours to return to pre-cycle levels (I don't have too much technical knowledge about FSH/LH production/response time)?
    Even if LH/FSH levels returned to 50% of pre-cycle levels this would be incredible.

    But, we aren’t actually testing pre-cycle levels. We will be testing “on” cycle levels without the Sustain, and then testing levels with Sustain to gauge the improvement.

    LH/FSH acts like a reservoir in a dam – As soon as you “unblock” the suppression, LH/FSH levels spill out.

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibbob2 View Post
    week 1: Havoc 20mg ED
    week 2: Havoc 20mg ED / Anavar 70mg ED
    week 3: Havoc 30mg ED / Anavar 80mg ED
    week 4: Havoc 30mg ED / Anavar 90mg ED
    week 5: Havoc 20mg ED / Anavar 90mg ED
    week 6: Anavar 100mg ED
    week 7: Avavar 100mg ED
    week 8: Clomid 100mg ED / Nolva 30mg ED
    week 9: Clomid 75mg ED / Nolva 20mg ED
    week 10: Clomid 50mg ED / Nolva 20mg ED
    week 11: Nolva 10mg ED

    do I qualify. I am on week one.. day two specifically
    Perhaps.... can you post any other cycle history or blood work?

    -Pp
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    ya, the last cycle I did I actually relied completely on your test recovery stack (toco, endo sustain) and nolva for post cycle therapy. It was logged right here on am. WATCH ME GROW....or die trying

    blood work will be done after post cycle therapy this time around, (specifically 7 days after to ensure everything back to normal)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Even if LH/FSH levels returned to 50% of pre-cycle levels this would be incredible.

    But, we aren’t actually testing pre-cycle levels. We will be testing “on” cycle levels without the Sustain, and then testing levels with Sustain to gauge the improvement.

    LH/FSH acts like a reservoir in a dam – As soon as you “unblock” the suppression, LH/FSH levels spill out.

    -Pp
    Got it. I guess while on, FSH/LH go right down to 0, so any FSH/LH presence would be an indication of the benzoflavone's activity.

    By pre-cycle, I meant back to their levels they have normally to compare what Sustain restores the FSH/LH to, but I guess in most cases we woulnd't know what that was without taking another blood-test pre-cycle.


    And gibbob, just read through your log, and "EPI and HAVOC ONLY!" although anavar is weak
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    Quote Originally Posted by gibbob2 View Post
    ya, the last cycle I did I actually relied completely on your test recovery stack (toco, endo sustain) and nolva for post cycle therapy. It was logged right here on am. WATCH ME GROW....or die trying

    blood work will be done after post cycle therapy this time around, (specifically 7 days after to ensure everything back to normal)
    I took a glance, but didnt see any blood test results. Could you post em up?

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    I took a glance, but didnt see any blood test results. Could you post em up?

    -Pp
    hey pp , just make my order here on nutra, my next cycle will begin next Monday and I`ll try it as soon as sustain arrives, hope it works, by the way the toco 8 arrived today, for all the interested you can follow the cycle here:
    nunes "montana method" cycle log
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    hey pp , just make my order here on nutra, my next cycle will begin next Monday and I`ll try it as soon as sustain arrives, hope it works, by the way the toco 8 arrived today, for all the interested you can follow the cycle here:
    nunes "montana method" cycle log
    Glad to hear.

    Toco-8 would be an excellent complement to the Sustain during the cycle too. Aside from protecting the hair line and keeping LDL down, it will help ensure your pituitary has adequate levels of LH & FSH levels built up. [as well has enhance testicular sensitivity to LH]

    -Pp
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    thats because there wasn't any done. I am planning on getting it done after this cycle is over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Glad to hear.

    Toco-8 would be an excellent complement to the Sustain during the cycle too. Aside from protecting the hair line and keeping LDL down, it will help ensure your pituitary has adequate levels of LH & FSH levels built up. [as well has enhance testicular sensitivity to LH]

    -Pp
    pp , do I really have to shave my balls and apply it there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    pp , do I really have to shave my balls and apply it there?
    Nope... no shaving required... Nair would be fine.
    ;-)

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Nope... no shaving required... Nair would be fine.
    ;-)

    -Pp

    Oh my god! I could not imagine how bad that would hurt.

    If you've ever accidentally gotten Nair on your nipples, you know what I'm talking about...
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    Damn. I have just over 2 weeks left of this 16 week cycle (Prop/Tren).

    I already have my bottle of Sustain for PCT too (in addition to Nolva/Clomid) Toco-8 and Natty test booster.

    Interested in seeing real results from the testers. I've liked your other products in the past and look forward to trying Sustain in this PCT.
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    pp you guys have this product for pct, how did you get this idea of using it on cycle ?

    about putting it on the balls , is it really necessary to this effect or we can put it on another places of the body?
    Last edited by nunes; 08-27-2008 at 09:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    pp you guys have this product for pct, how did you get this idea of using it on cycle ?

    about putting it on the balls , is it really necessary to this effect or we can put it on another places of the body?
    In his 1st post he mentioned new research, although he didn't link to it. I'm curious as well.

    Interesting read by him
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    pp you guys have this product for pct, how did you get this idea of using it on cycle ?

    about putting it on the balls , is it really necessary to this effect or we can put it on another places of the body?
    Im interested in these questions also, would the TRS still be effective for PCT after stopping androgen use? I dont like the idea of putting it on the scrotum, would shoulders be okay?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowbull View Post
    Im interested in these questions also, would the TRS still be effective for PCT after stopping androgen use? I dont like the idea of putting it on the scrotum, would shoulders be okay?
    yea , I also don't feel comfortable , reminds me of future ball cancer ...jeeeeesssssuuuuussssss
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    I used to apply Dermacrine Sustain to my genitals, is there more of an issue with Sustain Alpha? Can I still do this? Love your products!
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    Oops, I didn't read this thread far enough. Someone just asked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    pp you guys have this product for pct, how did you get this idea of using it on cycle ?

    about putting it on the balls , is it really necessary to this effect or we can put it on another places of the body?

    Lol. You don’t have to apply it to the balls. The torso, upper body, arms are all fine.

    The only reason the balls are suggested is because the skin is very thin in this area and the ingredients absorb very well.

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    pp you guys have this product for pct, how did you get this idea of using it on cycle ?

    about putting it on the balls , is it really necessary to this effect or we can put it on another places of the body?
    Yes, the product still is recommended for PCT to. The “during cycle” use is a new premise… which would ultimately allow guys to go on longer cycles and recovery quicker during PCT – since the Sustain would ultimately prevent them from shutting down.

    -Pp
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    What is your timeline like on this? i'm planning on a cycle either starting Oct 1, or possibly as late as Nov 15th, I haven't decided yet. You've seen my previous blood tests The cycle if oct 1 will be a cutting cycle with AMS 1-androsterone (600mg) and 4ad(600mg) (6 weeks), if nov 15 it will be a bulk with Havoc 30mg + M1,4add(old designer supplements stock, I think at 130mg/day, I have to do the math again) for 30 days. I'm undecided based on how the next month goes on a natural cut. if it goes well, i'll continue naturally thru oct., and bulk thru the holidays
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    Bumping this so that it doesn't get lost. Looking forward to seeing the results of these tests.
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    I've seen numerous positive studies on this product. I glad it wasn't patented
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    Yes, the product still is recommended for PCT to. The “during cycle” use is a new premise… which would ultimately allow guys to go on longer cycles and recovery quicker during PCT – since the Sustain would ultimately prevent them from shutting down.

    -Pp
    let me ask you again, should I use it on day 1 of cycle or wait a week while on?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    What is your timeline like on this? i'm planning on a cycle either starting Oct 1, or possibly as late as Nov 15th, I haven't decided yet. You've seen my previous blood tests The cycle if oct 1 will be a cutting cycle with AMS 1-androsterone (600mg) and 4ad(600mg) (6 weeks), if nov 15 it will be a bulk with Havoc 30mg + M1,4add(old designer supplements stock, I think at 130mg/day, I have to do the math again) for 30 days. I'm undecided based on how the next month goes on a natural cut. if it goes well, i'll continue naturally thru oct., and bulk thru the holidays
    We should have some results back within the next 6 weeks.

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunes View Post
    let me ask you again, should I use it on day 1 of cycle or wait a week while on?
    If using it for the on-cycle protocol I would start 1 week into the cycle and start with 10 pumps two days in a row -- taking 5 days off between each 2-day run.

    -Pp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Perf View Post
    If using it for the on-cycle protocol I would start 1 week into the cycle and start with 10 pumps two days in a row -- taking 5 days off between each 2-day run.

    -Pp
    Man, this came right on time, hope it works cause I really hate to stop my balls from rolling
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    Awesome opportunity here!
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    Quote Originally Posted by strategicmove View Post
    Awesome opportunity here!
    yeah my brother, if this work it will be a must have in every cycle and I think that this will not cause a Desensitization of Leydig cells to lh just like hcg does.
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    Very interesting topic. But I have one question: Why do you expect your testers to pay for the Sustain? What is this world coming to, lol?
    mw2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImJ2x View Post
    Very interesting topic. But I have one question: Why do you expect your testers to pay for the Sustain? What is this world coming to, lol?
    I got to say, that is a very good question
  

  
 

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