1st PH cycle

[MATTYO1977]

Hello Gentlemen.
I am very new to the forum and have enjoyed reading and researching various topics here. What brought me to finally post is I am ready to get some personalized feedback on a PH for such a newbie as myself.

I am 6'1 and weigh around 295. BF is teens? I am 31 and have been on a power lifting program for quite a while and want to cut some BF while remaining fairly strong. The lifting heavy has been starting to wear on the joints so I am going to a lighter weight higher rep less rest between sets routine. I have cleaned up the diet significantly and have been consistent in my workout schedule.

So, after all that I was hoping to get some feed back as to what products I could take as a first timer? I was looking at the H-Drol from CEL as well as Epi clones. I am not looking to make my liver ache and have done some research on PCT's and after care.

Any and all commentary would be greatly appreciated.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

H-drol would be a good choice for a 1st cycle. It is mild and you can use a OTC pct such as Post Cycle Support. I would use Cycle Support during the cycle for your support supps preload it 10 days before you start the cycle.

For a 1st time I would run it no longer than 5 weeks something like 50/50/50/75/75. It can cause dry joints so get some Cissus and up your intake of fish oil.

I ran this cycle a few months ago and loved it just ran the Cycle Support and for pct I did the Post Cycle Support and Lean Xtreme which I started on day 15 of pct. I got bloodwork done the day after pct and it came out good. I will post the bloodwork results and leave you some links that may help. Best of luck bro let me know if I can help:thumbsup:

http://www.otcpct.com

 

[MATTYO1977]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I should have mentioned that I would like to go the OTC PCT route if at all possible. Just personal preference but I guess. But the never ending debate on Nolva was getting to be a bit much for my brain.

I have some NOW Liver Detox and a bunch of milk thistle and red yeast and hathorne already so I will get some cycle support too.

and thanks for the link. I will gather more info and then get the ingredients and make it happen. any future feed back would be great also.
thanks!

 

[lennoxchi]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I should have mentioned that I would like to go the OTC PCT route if at all possible. Just personal preference but I guess. But the never ending debate on Nolva was getting to be a bit much for my brain.

I have some NOW Liver Detox and a bunch of milk thistle and red yeast and hathorne already so I will get some cycle support too.

and thanks for the link. I will gather more info and then get the ingredients and make it happen. any future feed back would be great also.
thanks!

i'm just getting towards the end of my 1st H-Drol cycle. and i would definitely recommend this for a first time user. i had no sides really to speak of, made me sweat a bit more and drank a lot more water than usual (drinking about 2 gals. a day) but thats not a big deal. it really didn't kick in till about week 3 or 4, so i would not consider a short cycle if i were you. i would keep my cycle around 5 to 6 weeks. for a first time user of PH/PS i would also run it like this 25 mgs. for the 1st week then 50 for the remaining 4 or 5 weeks, you could go to 75mgs. in the last 2 weeks, but obviously wait to see how your body reacts to it 1st, who knows you might be OK @ 50 or @ 75, everybody is different. as far as the Nolva things goes, ALWAYS have it on hand, "just in case" besides if your going to run H-drol and don't need it, you will most likely in the future, be running something else that does need it. it's just better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.......like firearms :head:

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I should have mentioned that I would like to go the OTC PCT route if at all possible. Just personal preference but I guess. But the never ending debate on Nolva was getting to be a bit much for my brain.

I have some NOW Liver Detox and a bunch of milk thistle and red yeast and hathorne already so I will get some cycle support too.

and thanks for the link. I will gather more info and then get the ingredients and make it happen. any future feed back would be great also.
thanks!

Post Cycle Support is the OTC PCT your looking for:thumbsup:

 

[MATTYO1977]

Thanks for your input lennoxchi.

I was thinking about starting at a lower 25 mgs to start with anyway just to see how I felt. And did you run your Nolva after? Just because or was it really needed because you mentioned that the sides were minimal.

But I guess an other question is does your body weight matter in the amount to be taken? I know that the more is better philosophy doesn't neccesarily translate with certain compounds but being heavier I always wonder.

That and the when to dose question is always a topic of debate. A pre workout dose and then a post is common but I usually lift around 4 and would like to be able to relax and sleep since I am up early in the AM. Has anyone really had issues with sleeping?

After all that, thanks again!

 

[lennoxchi]

Thanks for your input lennoxchi.

I was thinking about starting at a lower 25 mgs to start with anyway just to see how I felt. And did you run your Nolva after? Just because or was it really needed because you mentioned that the sides were minimal.

But I guess an other question is does your body weight matter in the amount to be taken? I know that the more is better philosophy doesn't necessarily translate with certain compounds but being heavier I always wonder.

That and the when to dose question is always a topic of debate. A pre workout dose and then a post is common but I usually lift around 4 and would like to be able to relax and sleep since I am up early in the AM. Has anyone really had issues with sleeping?

After all that, thanks again!

well man, i'm finishing my Hdrol experience with SD, so as far as the Nolva goes, i WILL be needing it for the SD, most likely anyway. if it was just Hdrol, i would have to wait and see. everybody's different. usually what i do is after a short cycle of SD or something like that, that is stronger, i will use a low dose SERM to begin with then make adjustments from there. again i have never ran just Hdrol, and from what I've heard a SERM is not always necessary, but once again (cause it's important) your body and mine are different, thats why i suggest having a SERM on hand. and i did not notice your weight, OMG your one big bastard....:lol: you might be able to go to 50 mgs. after a couple of days, play it by ear though, see how you react. as far as sleeping, i had a hard time sleeping on hdrol, but melotonin (i think i spelled that wrong) 6 mgs. every night helped much. if you were going to take 50mgs. take one as soon as you get up then another about 2 or 3 in the afternoon, spread out the dosage evenly. as far as just 25 mgs. i would take it in the middle of the day, maybe before lunch.

 

[MATTYO1977]

lennoxchi,
I can see why you would be going with the Nolva since you are going right into some SD. I am just going to run the H-drol solo and see what happens being my first experience. but I agree with the firearms bit too. can you have too many?

and I am guessing my weight was why pembroke3355 suggested a higher doasge to start? I am trying to lose some BF while staying strong. The mind game of using light weights really gets to me but the joints are telling me to smarten up and lay off the heavy stuff for a while. This way I figured I could help the cause and then be able hit some heavier lifts again in the future.

and thanks for the suggestions on the dosage time too. I think I will try one in the am and then the second pre workout. see how it goes.

and I looked into the sleep aid stuff also. and you were only a letter off in melAtonin!


Thanks again. I'd love any future input for sure.

 

[MATTYO1977]

I was also thinking of running the anabolic extreme hyperdrol and mass fx combo after being done with the H-drol.

Do you guys have any other suggestions? I know pembroke3355 you suggested the post cycle support and I will be taking that as well.

 

[futurepilot]

Thanks again. I'd love any future input for sure.

Ask and you shall receive

I would look into people's logs that have run 75-100mgs. I think you'll find they have had more success than those who stay to lesser doses.

For one thing you outweigh both previous posters by approx. 100lbs. If your at a point where your stagnant in lifts, your going to need a kick in the ass, not just a boost. 50mgs is a boost, 75-100mg is a kick in the ass.

I would also recomend at least purchasing a SERM to have it with you. If you get any unwanted side effects there is nothing OTC that will combat the growth of female breast tissue. Running an OTC AI might help prevent it, but should anything pop up your going to need to deal with it swiftly (SERM).

 

[MATTYO1977]

Futurepilot,
I'm glad I have been asking and all of you guys have been graciously giving me much needed advice and opinion. Thanks for that.

I have been running into much internal debate about the mgs for my body weight. I kind of am at a point where I want to shed some lbs. and keep strength which is a slippery slope to climb. I am also trying to stay as mild as possible with the sides and am thinking with the lower dose this would be a possiblility.

So I guess I'm still up in the air really. pembroke3355 gave me a great sense of direction with his initial post so I am leaning in that direction as far as dosages.

I want to try and stay OTC for my PCT if at all possible. I don't know why but putting an other chemical in after chemicals seems a bit much. But I'd probably hate the lady breasts even more so I am in limbo on the decision.

Thanks again. And please feel free to keep adding the 2 cents.

 

[futurepilot]

I want to try and stay OTC for my PCT if at all possible. I don't know why but putting an other chemical in after chemicals seems a bit much.

Thats a reasonable fear, as SERMs do have side effects. But that would be, in part, the reason for the support supps your going to be taking, even into PCT. You havent mentioned any, so im not sure if you have recognized the need for them, but heres a cheat sheet.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/48614-common-problems-cycle.html

 

[ibanezman08]

on average, how much do people gain off h-drol?

my friend said he got more gains from cell mass but he's not trustworthy.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

on average, how much do people gain off h-drol?

my friend said he got more gains from cell mass but he's not trustworthy.

On a cut I gained 6 lbs and kept 4 after pct but I also lost 2%bf and the recomp effect was awesome.:thumbsup:

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Futurepilot,
I'm glad I have been asking and all of you guys have been graciously giving me much needed advice and opinion. Thanks for that.

I have been running into much internal debate about the mgs for my body weight. I kind of am at a point where I want to shed some lbs. and keep strength which is a slippery slope to climb. I am also trying to stay as mild as possible with the sides and am thinking with the lower dose this would be a possiblility.

So I guess I'm still up in the air really. pembroke3355 gave me a great sense of direction with his initial post so I am leaning in that direction as far as dosages.

I want to try and stay OTC for my PCT if at all possible. I don't know why but putting an other chemical in after chemicals seems a bit much. But I'd probably hate the lady breasts even more so I am in limbo on the decision.

Thanks again. And please feel free to keep adding the 2 cents.

I agree with futurepilot the results are greater at the 75-100mg range my 1st run 1 went with 75mg for 5 weeks and I found that to be my sweet spot. And even though this is mild it would be wise to run some supports. Hawthorne berry preloaded 10-14 day before and run throughout the cycle and milk thistle. I wish you the very best cycle bro:thumbsup:

 

[MATTYO1977]

A big thanks to you both for the feedback. and futurepilot, thanks for the cheat sheet. great resource.

I have been using a ton of NOW supps recently and have been happy. I have been running the hawthorne berry, red yeast rice with the coq10, the liver detox, green tea, taurine at 2 grams/day and milk thistle as well. My body feels clean and strong from these anti oxidants. I also take the animal flex for the joints and omeg 3's. I will use some liver longer and post cycle support for a follow up.

and what do you suggest as a test booster after? any preferences?

and pembroke3355, your results sound like what I'm looking for as far as weight gained and bf lost. I'm looking for that mild punch to get me going back heavy again but without roughing up the insides too much.

Thank you both for the helpful replies.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

A big thanks to you both for the feedback. and futurepilot, thanks for the cheat sheet. great resource.

I have been using a ton of NOW supps recently and have been happy. I have been running the hawthorne berry, red yeast rice with the coq10, the liver detox, green tea, taurine at 2 grams/day and milk thistle as well. My body feels clean and strong from these anti oxidants. I also take the animal flex for the joints and omeg 3's. I will use some liver longer and post cycle support for a follow up.

and what do you suggest as a test booster after? any preferences?

and pembroke3355, your results sound like what I'm looking for as far as weight gained and bf lost. I'm looking for that mild punch to get me going back heavy again but without roughing up the insides too much.

Thank you both for the helpful replies.

This should work well for you. Keep us informed on how you make out:thumbsup:

 

[MATTYO1977]

Thanks for all your help pembrkoe3355.

I just ordered some cycle support and some other stuff in preparation for starting. My one question was, is it overkill to take my additional liver detox and milk thistle stuff considering all that is included in the cycle support? I can get all of what I have been taking and seemingly more out of the 2 scoop a day routine rather than downing all the separate pills. or with that stuff there isn't really a too much will be bad just kind of waste the $ it cost to get it.

I should get all my stuff in check by the time septmeber rolls around and then school year begins again. I will write back in with updates and results for sure.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Thanks for all your help pembrkoe3355.

I just ordered some cycle support and some other stuff in preparation for starting. My one question was, is it overkill to take my additional liver detox and milk thistle stuff considering all that is included in the cycle support? I can get all of what I have been taking and seemingly more out of the 2 scoop a day routine rather than downing all the separate pills. or with that stuff there isn't really a too much will be bad just kind of waste the $ it cost to get it.

I should get all my stuff in check by the time septmeber rolls around and then school year begins again. I will write back in with updates and results for sure.

Yes ther is no need for any additional supports Cycle Support has enough of each to keep you safe bro and again I wish you the best bro:thumbsup:

 

[crazyfool405]

cycle support is good but ull need an AI with it for PCT

at a low dose of hdrol at 50mg for 4 weeks, IDS PCT tabs will work just fine. and if you dont feel thats good. then Testostolyze with Primal male by MAN sports. will work as a GREAT PCT

 

[MATTYO1977]

Thanks to both for the replies.

What do you think about the hyperdrol massF/X combo during the PCT? those are not Ph's to my understanding so would that hurt? or is there some other test booster that people really like.

I'm just looking for more opinions. I am going to run the post cycle support regardless, I think. But I am just looking for more thoughts. That and probably the Lean Xtreme at day 15 of the PCT.

Keep the knowledge coming guys!

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

cycle support is good but ull need an AI with it for PCT

at a low dose of hdrol at 50mg for 4 weeks, IDS PCT tabs will work just fine. and if you dont feel thats good. then Testostolyze with Primal male by MAN sports. will work as a GREAT PCT

Cycle Support is run during the cycle not for pct. And for a h-drol only cycle a AI is not a must:thumbsup:

 

[MATTYO1977]

so pembroke3355,
I'm back to where you left me off. the cycle support during and the post cycle after. and thats all I'll need? but what would you reccommend for an AI?

and I got the cycle support yesterday. interesting taste... but it got me to take like 15 less pills which is a good thing.

 

[crazyfool405]

well 6oxo with a DHT blocker, along with an LH booster would be great PCT for that cycle. its strong enough.

if you were go go higher on the doses and longer on the cycle more would definetly be requried

 

[crazyfool405]

Cycle Support is run during the cycle not for pct. And for a h-drol only cycle a AI is not a must:thumbsup:

i know thats why i said Cycle support isnt only what he should take PCT. (being that its support supps liver bp ect)

people look into the basic knowledge that a SERM binds to the receptors and that an AI isnt needed on an aromatizing compound.

but infact people (i think everyone) needs to look a little deeper

as a SERM will bind to the receptors ... and your natural androgen levels increase, it will also aromatize.

follow me so far? good......

now you have a synthetic estrogen bound to the receptors and you have circulating estrogen in the blood (as well as an increased testosterone lh/fsh ect)

still with me?..........

when you stop the SERM the circulating estrogen in the blood will flood the receptors quickly, which may infact cause a rebound, which is why after 1 week of being on a SERM you add an AI which you can definetly benifit.

this can/should be used for strong PH and steroidal compounds.

my .02

 

[MATTYO1977]

so crazy, after all that, could you give me an black and white version of what you would do? I am very appreciative of your breakdown believe me. But I'm talking what to take and dosages and so on. I think having it written out is beneficial not only for me but any others who may ready this post.

I don't want to appear lazy for not "doing my homework" but I am appreciating your opinion and figured you could give a more detailed PCT plan for such circumstance.

 

[MATTYO1977]

Crazy, after all that, could you give me a PCT plan with everything broken down? I really appreciate the extra explanation that you are giving and thought that a plan written out would not only help but educate anyone else who happened to read this.

I don't want to appear lazy for not "doing my homework" I just think that compounds and dosages sometimes appeal more to the average guy than acronymns and abbreviations.

Again thanks for your help.

 

[MATTYO1977]

Crazy, sorry for the double reply. my kid hit the back button and away my original response went.

kids, you gotta love em because they aren't cheap.

 

[crazyfool405]

with your weight and its your first cycle i would do 5-6 weeks.
of course going up to that dose is DEPENDANT on how YOU REACT and FEEL. With a 6 week course of any PH with a higher then reccommended dose, i would run a SERM and an AI.

remember your a much bigger guy then a lot of these other people. which is why the dose gets soo high if you choose to go that high


Hdrol 50/50/75/75/100/100
Clomid __________________100 / 50 / 50
Nolva ___________________20 / 20 / 10
Arimidex ____________________.5/ .5 / .5
Aromasin ___________________ 20/ 20 / 10
6oxo ______________________ 300/ 300/300 (if you can taper this the last few days please do.)

KEEP IN MIND its EITHER NOLVA or CLOMID NOT BOTH
If you choose Nolva , then AROMASIN OR 6oxo Will be your AI
if you choose Clomid, then ARIMIDEX, AROMASIN OR, 6oxo Will be your AI.

 

[MATTYO1977]

crazy,
thanks for the quick response and the overall layout. very informative. I was trying to go with an OTC PCT mixture but your layout really makes sense and has my brain ticking.

I appreciate the information as I'm sure do many others.

 

[crazyfool405]

IDS PCT tabs, Primal Male and low dose Tdrive Extreme (2 pills).

i think Reversitol is good as well (possibly better depending on how much ATD used.), stacked with hemotest by nutrabolics.

i think those 2 would be the best bet for the OTC PCT, not reccommended on that length and dose of the cycle though...

 

[MATTYO1977]

thanks for the advice. I am thinking of running a lower dosage just as a first timer. see how everything acts and reacts. I'll keep everyone posted as it gets going.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

so pembroke3355,
I'm back to where you left me off. the cycle support during and the post cycle after. and thats all I'll need? but what would you reccommend for an AI?

and I got the cycle support yesterday. interesting taste... but it got me to take like 15 less pills which is a good thing.

6 oxo would be a good AI I would start it in the 3rd week of pct and taper the dose down:thumbsup:

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

with your weight and its your first cycle i would do 5-6 weeks.
of course going up to that dose is DEPENDANT on how YOU REACT and FEEL. With a 6 week course of any PH with a higher then reccommended dose, i would run a SERM and an AI.

remember your a much bigger guy then a lot of these other people. which is why the dose gets soo high if you choose to go that high


Hdrol 50/50/75/75/100/100
Clomid __________________100 / 50 / 50
Nolva ___________________20 / 20 / 10
Arimidex ____________________.5/ .5 / .5
Aromasin ___________________ 20/ 20 / 10
6oxo ______________________ 300/ 300/300 (if you can taper this the last few days please do.)

KEEP IN MIND its EITHER NOLVA or CLOMID NOT BOTH
If you choose Nolva , then AROMASIN OR 6oxo Will be your AI
if you choose Clomid, then ARIMIDEX, AROMASIN OR, 6oxo Will be your AI.

That is complete overkill for a h-drol only cycle IMO he will not need a serm:thumbsup:

 

[crazyfool405]

That is complete overkill for a h-drol only cycle IMO he will not need a serm:thumbsup:

i simply gave options. and at that high dose for that long,

Reversitol and hemotest would be the best OTC for PCT.

 

[MATTYO1977]

Thanks to you both for giving me these options to think about. I had used the 6 OXO before and thought it was all right.
and pembroke3355, what type of taper are you suggesting?

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Thanks to you both for giving me these options to think about. I had used the 6 OXO before and thought it was all right.
and pembroke3355, what type of taper are you suggesting?

Start 6 oxo in the 3rd week of pct and taper 3/2/2/1 should work good.:thumbsup:

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

i simply gave options. and at that high dose for that long,

Reversitol and hemotest would be the best OTC for PCT.

This is not the 1st thread I have seen you talking about your best otc pct but your entitled to your opinion:thumbsup:

 

[crazyfool405]

This is not the 1st thread I have seen you talking about your best otc pct but your entitled to your opinion:thumbsup:

no its not,

becuase a lot of people want the OTC route

and some mild compounds dont require a SERM. as you know.

Ive done my research on what i reccommend.

there are a lot of changes i would use in each though......

 

[MATTYO1977]

thanks again guys for your help. I will keep you informed when I get all my stuff together and begin to run this. I am getting fired up for it and feel like I should have a really good experience.

 

[Zero V]

Good luck on your endeavor.

 

[MATTYO1977]

Thanks! I'll probably do some type of weekly log in to update progress and stuff.

It's getting close!

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Thanks! I'll probably do some type of weekly log in to update progress and stuff.

It's getting close!

Good luck bro:thumbsup:

 

[MATTYO1977]

Pembroke3355,
thanks for all your help here. I really appreciate your knowledge and input and am really excited about starting this up. I am debating about ordering now and getting started sooner than I thought. Why wait right?

and thanks to everyone else who had input as well. awesome guys.