The old fuggers at it again!!!!! Musclemania Canada!!!

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    This is interesting about creating ketones through supplementation ...

    http://patrickarnoldblog.com/instant-ketosis/
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products

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    Pics are not great seem to be having lighting problems oh well....Name:  1.JPG
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    Ok I am pretty sure I have leaned quite a bit this week but looking at the pics I am not seeing the visual evidence of the kind of jump I wanted so I am going to take it down to 2500 cals 75 carbs 50 fat. This still leaves me some room for adjustment and the carb meals should do a good job of keeping my metabolism where it needs to be. I need to be looking at my pics and saying bang! there it is!
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    Ok things moving faster now it seems, I'll show you fuggers New routine this morning FST-7 again 5 days chest done twice. For rear delts I am incorporating the destroyer that Chris eluded to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Ok I am pretty sure I have leaned quite a bit this week but looking at the pics I am not seeing the visual evidence of the kind of jump I wanted so I am going to take it down to 2500 cals 75 carbs 50 fat. This still leaves me some room for adjustment and the carb meals should do a good job of keeping my metabolism where it needs to be. I need to be looking at my pics and saying bang! there it is!
    Don't look too bad. Nothing a good diet can't fix. See you've added some size

    With your back shot(standing relaxed), I do feel you could pop your lats more....I roll my shoulders back and under before popping them, you seem to pop more to the front(hard to explain what I mean, think you gey the picture)

    Lets kill this shyt....DW for master of Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    not seeing the visual evidence of the kind of jump I wanted so I am going to take it down to 2500 cals 75 carbs 50 fat.
    carbs are too low, for the amount of fat consumed
    for education: I have never taken carbs <100g during this whole time, since I have been keeping fats low instead

    when I say "be aggressive" in the diet, it does not mean silly and insufficient levels of things for the simple fact of making changes tomorrow or two days from now..you need to keep the big picture in focus, and realize what is best for the specific current direction of the long marathon you are doing

    get carbs up to 100-125 on your non-carb-up days

    Quote Originally Posted by edje007 View Post
    With your back shot(standing relaxed), I do feel you could pop your lats more....I roll my shoulders back and under before popping them, you seem to pop more to the front(hard to explain what I mean, think you gey the picture)
    actually you explained this just fine bro..absolutely agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by edje007 View Post
    Don't look too bad. Nothing a good diet can't fix. See you've added some size

    With your back shot(standing relaxed), I do feel you could pop your lats more....I roll my shoulders back and under before popping them, you seem to pop more to the front(hard to explain what I mean, think you gey the picture)

    Lets kill this shyt....DW for master of Canada
    Yah I know what you mean I tend to get pulled forward as my tie in's to my pecs are very tight, I have to a) do more stretching and b) be more conscious of this problem.. I was focused on keeping my hands closer to my body and tried to roll my shoulders back but the way you explained it is making sense. Hey look at your back ... I am listening
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    Oh boy guys you know this is gonna be great!!
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    20 wheel of death last night, that's a record. Incredible body comp changes the last couple days. Very little doms from my leg workout on Monday.

    Here's say 1...

    Front squats 4 X 12
    Leg Press 4 X 12
    Leg extensions 7 X 15 30 seconds rest

    Leg curl 4 X 12
    Stiff legged dead 4 X 12
    Seated leg curl 7 X 15 30 seconds rest

    First time I did this routine I could hardly move the next day, the extra BCAA/SAA's and l-glutamine doing their job.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Murdered Chest and triceps today, extra reps and sets for that matter. Starting out I am at the low end but damn so much power and stamina right now. This starting to look very promising.
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    Nice work out, congrats on the PR for WOD. Nice to see some aggressive BCC from the FST DW. You love to SSW, and without DOMS is a big plus. Don't forget the importance of doing some HIIT ASAP... TTYL!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    freakin acronym overload..i got a headache now
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    freakin acronym overload..i got a headache now
    Yah I am still decoding
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    Ok I am feeling great, my diet just seems more balanced with the carbs a bit higher plus the other adjustemnts I have made. Steve you said somenthing quite interesting earlier in the thread. You said "Your carbs are too low for the amount of fats you are eating" Now this suggests we need to keep our carb ratio's in line with the fat intake. If you have the time could you elaborate on that. Not only do I think I would benefit from understanding it more fully but I think all of us would find it interesting. Lets discuss this. A link to a good article would also be sufficient. If anyone else has something to add I'd be interested in hearing what eveyone has to say.

    If I don't learn why then it's hard to remember what sometimes.
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    sure no worries doug i'll help here, it's rather simple concept - but, i will offer no "articles" to support my stance, for couple reasons (one there are few sources with enough insight to speak in educated manner on this, and two because i simply do not need to i am not the guy who goes around embracing science for my reasoning and needs some "proof of documentation" to support what i am saying; quite honestly science lacks the ability to understand and dissect the processes and function we as bb'ers are trying to accomplish with our bodies, and dietary construction is just another example of this, has long been lacking in any understanding of nutrition)

    said pure & simply: you seem to have this concept that protein is all that is needed to lose weight or make body-comp changes on the level we are speaking..this is not only simply not the case, it also directly hinders these goals over time, and gets cumulatively worse!
    now - there are short periods where, if the nutritional aspect is covered on proper vit/mineral consumption, relatively low amounts of carbs & fats in play simultaneously can eliminate waterweight very quickly; but as far as true fat-loss goes, protein alone is not sufficient for the main reason of what hi-protein is beneficial for anyway, ie boost metabolism via harder to digest for body/nourish muscle tissue..if you try to use all protein all the time, the body chews up so much in digestion to break it down to begin with, working hard in the process (most do not realize the tremendous amount of energy the body exerts in the digestive process), and loses both the ability to target adipose tissue for fat release as well as recuperation due to the protein being used as sustenance rather than muscular repair/growth
    the appropriate amount of carbs or fats in play - and yes one being at least minimally sufficient is mandatory - stop this from happening, and allow proper functioning of both digestive and recuperative properties..try to cut both out or keep them too low, it is simply a matter of time before the body turns to tap muscle tissue for sustenance and nutrition..the body does not give a sh1t about your desire to gain or keep muscle; it is solely concerned with survival, period, and will target muscle stores preferentially over adipose stores simply because it is less strain and effort to do so

    the easy way to look at this is, if fats are low, carbs have to be at least moderate to lowish if using long-term scale of dieting..conversely, fats must be at sufficient level if carbs are going to be very small and almost eliminated..to lower both at same time to unnecessary levels, is recipe for disaster
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    now doug - do me a favor please..
    try to remember this going forward, and do not forget as you have done some other things in recent past, so that my time here answering it was not wasted and will save me from having to repeat myself at some point down road because you have skewed your understanding of the concept for some reason..

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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    now doug - do me a favor please..
    try to remember this going forward, and do not forget as you have done some other things in recent past, so that my time here answering it was not wasted and will save me from having to repeat myself at some point down road because you have skewed your understanding of the concept for some reason..

    I log it in a journal entry in outlook now. I take my whole log and journal all the pertinent information that way I have a printable journal any time I want and I can just pull up a calander hit a date and see what I was up to then. Training diet and other information. Takes some time sot set up but some of it is just cut and paste. I knew I was forgetting stuff so something had to be done. This never would have happened a few years ago as I had a good memory up untill my early fifties. It kinda sucks cuz I have to change the way I do things and old fuggers don't like change much. I am forced to develop some good habits though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    sure no worries doug i'll help here, it's rather simple concept - but, i will offer no "articles" to support my stance, for couple reasons (one there are few sources with enough insight to speak in educated manner on this, and two because i simply do not need to i am not the guy who goes around embracing science for my reasoning and needs some "proof of documentation" to support what i am saying; quite honestly science lacks the ability to understand and dissect the processes and function we as bb'ers are trying to accomplish with our bodies, and dietary construction is just another example of this, has long been lacking in any understanding of nutrition)

    said pure & simply: you seem to have this concept that protein is all that is needed to lose weight or make body-comp changes on the level we are speaking..this is not only simply not the case, it also directly hinders these goals over time, and gets cumulatively worse!
    now - there are short periods where, if the nutritional aspect is covered on proper vit/mineral consumption, relatively low amounts of carbs & fats in play simultaneously can eliminate waterweight very quickly; but as far as true fat-loss goes, protein alone is not sufficient for the main reason of what hi-protein is beneficial for anyway, ie boost metabolism via harder to digest for body/nourish muscle tissue..if you try to use all protein all the time, the body chews up so much in digestion to break it down to begin with, working hard in the process (most do not realize the tremendous amount of energy the body exerts in the digestive process), and loses both the ability to target adipose tissue for fat release as well as recuperation due to the protein being used as sustenance rather than muscular repair/growth
    the appropriate amount of carbs or fats in play - and yes one being at least minimally sufficient is mandatory - stop this from happening, and allow proper functioning of both digestive and recuperative properties..try to cut both out or keep them too low, it is simply a matter of time before the body turns to tap muscle tissue for sustenance and nutrition..the body does not give a sh1t about your desire to gain or keep muscle; it is solely concerned with survival, period, and will target muscle stores preferentially over adipose stores simply because it is less strain and effort to do so

    the easy way to look at this is, if fats are low, carbs have to be at least moderate to lowish if using long-term scale of dieting..conversely, fats must be at sufficient level if carbs are going to be very small and almost eliminated..to lower both at same time to unnecessary levels, is recipe for disaster
    Excellent so lowering both is ok for very short periods... so we are keeping low fat for most of the duration we need to keep our catbs about equal cals to the fat we take in. 110 grams of carbs is about 440 cals and 50 grams of fat is about 450. We can still do those short periods but only when absolutely needed and that is where you would use the 2 hour eating windows ? Once depleted from low carbs and fat like I was during my last prep. Just trying to tie it all together.
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    ah yes - seeing some of the effects of old age beging to come into play and affect you can certainly be demoralizing - I experienced this a bit myself when I hit 40 (tho not on 54y/o level obviously), not memory but other issues..thankfully I have a great memory, as I embrace this and utilize to its fullest; I hope that never changes
    one thing I might suggest: well off the top, determine if it is simply old-age forgetfulness, or something more serious like an organic brain/function deteriorization that poses a more serious set of issues for you..but my advice would be (and this is tough I understand, but..) try to tone down on your reading of various sources and ideas, opposing viewpoints, and majorly differing philosophies..find a source you feel to be accurate and worthwhile, and stick with that source for your guiding information going forward
    I am not saying that reading differing opinions/material is not beneficial - quite the contrary, this can be almost as valuable as reading a solid source of info to begin with, as you get a more thorough aspect of understanding and education on the topic at hand (makes you think a little more)..
    when you have memory issues tho, instead this will detract from your overall knowledge and ability to maintain what you read and study, simply because as the memory eludes you begin to confuse issues to yourself, and lose meanings behind contexts and thos philosophies

    just my .02 - wish you the best in this regard buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    ah yes - seeing some of the effects of old age beging to come into play and affect you can certainly be demoralizing - I experienced this a bit myself when I hit 40 (tho not on 54y/o level obviously), not memory but other issues..thankfully I have a great memory, as I embrace this and utilize to its fullest; I hope that never changes
    one thing I might suggest: well off the top, determine if it is simply old-age forgetfulness, or something more serious like an organic brain/function deteriorization that poses a more serious set of issues for you..but my advice would be (and this is tough I understand, but..) try to tone down on your reading of various sources and ideas, opposing viewpoints, and majorly differing philosophies..find a source you feel to be accurate and worthwhile, and stick with that source for your guiding information going forward
    I am not saying that reading differing opinions/material is not beneficial - quite the contrary, this can be almost as valuable as reading a solid source of info to begin with, as you get a more thorough aspect of understanding and education on the topic at hand (makes you think a little more)..
    when you have memory issues tho, instead this will detract from your overall knowledge and ability to maintain what you read and study, simply because as the memory eludes you begin to confuse issues to yourself, and lose meanings behind contexts and thos philosophies

    just my .02 - wish you the best in this regard buddy
    Yes like we have discussed memory loss and the ability to learn likely have a lot to do with be very clutttered. Remember I am learning all this new stuff at work so I am in overload as well. It will get better when I am over that hump. I used a software that I was expert in for so long that I never had to learn all that much new stuff. The worm has turned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Excellent so lowering both is ok for very short periods... so we are keeping low fat for most of the duration we need to keep our catbs about equal cals to the fat we take in. 110 grams of carbs is about 440 cals and 50 grams of fat is about 450. We can still do those short periods but only when absolutely needed and that is where you would use the 2 hour eating windows ? Once depleted from low carbs and fat like I was during my last prep. Just trying to tie it all together.
    you lost me again man
    both low fats (when I say low, I mean really low ie <50g fats for most general purposes) and low carbs (here I mean anything <100g), that is horrible to do for any amount of duration, at any time..should ONLY be utilized as a last resort, if one needs drastic measures and has fallen behind schedule for some reason..it is NOT a consistent plan of attack, one wishes to use thruout an entire prep process
    honestly, the diet I put together for you to begin with was fine for your needs; you started tweaking things on your own, and forgetting things (like the design of that carb meal etc) that are essential to function of that SPECIFIC plan
    when you have a guideline from someone else, unless you have an extremely thorough understanding of the processes involved and feel you can improve upon it, it is important to not deviate from the plan as it is structured
    you make this entirely too complex here man....

    in essence:
    if you are having fats ~50g day and they are being reduced from there, then you will really want to keep carbs >100g and more like 115in a low-point of a set rotation ie 175/150/115 then carb meal built-in to bump day that will put you ~250-300g for that particular day

    as far as meal timing goes, again I do not know what you refer to here, there is no "2hr window" that I propose at all, and the 2x weekly carb boosters are metabolism reset meals that also boost thyroid function and keep fat-loss humming right along

    I don't wish to sound rude doug, but honestly I am losing the ability to have luxury of time to spend dissecting things here with you - esp things I have touched on in one form or another previously already..i simply cannot do it, with my own prep/customer clients are procure my services and so I have an obligation to tend to them



    please understand my position..also - again the 2hr thing, I am clueless to what you refer to
    if you are talking about avoiding IF, then certainly you know how I feel on that one..
    if you are talking about spacing meals out, it is simply because if you are splitting meals 5-6x daily then ~3hrs or so is how they will logically be spaced apart

    don't make this too difficult!
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    you lost me again man
    both low fats (when I say low, I mean really low ie <50g fats for most general purposes) and low carbs (here I mean anything <100g), that is horrible to do for any amount of duration, at any time..should ONLY be utilized as a last resort, if one needs drastic measures and has fallen behind schedule for some reason..it is NOT a consistent plan of attack, one wishes to use thruout an entire prep process
    honestly, the diet I put together for you to begin with was fine for your needs; you started tweaking things on your own, and forgetting things (like the design of that carb meal etc) that are essential to function of that SPECIFIC plan
    when you have a guideline from someone else, unless you have an extremely thorough understanding of the processes involved and feel you can improve upon it, it is important to not deviate from the plan as it is structured
    you make this entirely too complex here man....

    in essence:
    if you are having fats ~50g day and they are being reduced from there, then you will really want to keep carbs >100g and more like 115in a low-point of a set rotation ie 175/150/115 then carb meal built-in to bump day that will put you ~250-300g for that particular day

    as far as meal timing goes, again I do not know what you refer to here, there is no "2hr window" that I propose at all, and the 2x weekly carb boosters are metabolism reset meals that also boost thyroid function and keep fat-loss humming right along

    I don't wish to sound rude doug, but honestly I am losing the ability to have luxury of time to spend dissecting things here with you - esp things I have touched on in one form or another previously already..i simply cannot do it, with my own prep/customer clients are procure my services and so I have an obligation to tend to them



    please understand my position..also - again the 2hr thing, I am clueless to what you refer to
    if you are talking about avoiding IF, then certainly you know how I feel on that one..
    if you are talking about spacing meals out, it is simply because if you are splitting meals 5-6x daily then ~3hrs or so is how they will logically be spaced apart

    don't make this too difficult!
    ok I have the basic gist anyway. diet sseems to be working very well.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    ok I have the basic gist anyway. diet sseems to be working very well.
    great
    last point I want to leave you with, to make sure you understand this one as well: when we manipulate the carb level ie in a rotation, we do not also move fats around -- they remain consistently at set point
    the only time this changes, is with that carb meal I prescribed, where an optional TBS of almond butter or real butter and combination of the fat from oats. or rice you are consuming, will add addtl 12-15g fat or so to the day's total..this is fine, and again simply another (lower) impact of that particular meal for metabolism boosting
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    great
    last point I want to leave you with, to make sure you understand this one as well: when we manipulate the carb level ie in a rotation, we do not also move fats around -- they remain consistently at set point
    the only time this changes, is with that carb meal I prescribed, where an optional TBS of almond butter or real butter and combination of the fat from oats. or rice you are consuming, will add addtl 12-15g fat or so to the day's total..this is fine, and again simply another (lower) impact of that particular meal for metabolism boosting
    Yes that is very clear. I will be fine now go out and win your contest and I will crush this don't you worry. What I lack in knowledge I make up for in tenacity
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Yes that is very clear. I will be fine now go out and win your contest and I will crush this don't you worry. What I lack in knowledge I make up for in tenacity
    lol - very good then
    and while my primary point in making that post was of course for your own benefit, understand as well, I do not want you going around and taking a piece of info we have discussed, and advising someone else to do it - esp if you have bastardized and skewed the concept in translation to begin with -- and then say "well this is what snag says so...."
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    lol - very good then
    and while my primary point in making that post was of course for your own benefit, understand as well, I do not want you going around and taking a piece of info we have discussed, and advising someone else to do it - esp if you have bastardized and skewed the concept in translation to begin with -- and then say "well this is what snag says so...."
    no problem I have a pretty good handle not much skewing going down here now. One thing I know is the more I get the principles I can really feel the difference. Like I seem to have more energy and feel healthier over all and I am getting really to like that feeling. This is going to help me off season as well cuz I like the way I feel.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Up very early today, looking forward to the gym. I feel really good lately so it makes going to the gym that much more pleasurable.

    Before I forget I wanted to comment on one thing, the weight loss I am experiencing now is visually different. I can visually see that I have lost more fat than I normally would have given the actual lbs. I would normally have to lose more weight to see these kinds of visual changes. I know 550 is very good for that, it's a great recomp product but I believe the diet has a lot to do with this as well.

    Also better recovery now that I am using the BCAA/SAA pre/intra/post bed and waking.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Incredible workout on arms and rear delts yesterday, it's unbelievable the isolation I am getting on all my exercises, I mean my arms were really aching at end of each set. Will do more pics this morning and hope to get better lighting.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Pics are a bit better this time, I think I look significantly leaner here. I am pleased...

    Name:  1.JPG
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    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Abs are looking large and separated! I wish I could take my pics in the gym...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Abs are looking large and separated! I wish I could take my pics in the gym...
    Thanks Chris, I am not really supposed to but we take them on Saturday when it's less crowded. Even here though my body is being very washed out. I have a ton of vascularity and striations that don't show up in these pics but I think we are all used to that. Oh and Chris you have great feakin abs by the way. Turtle shell abs man they look great!!

    Hey Edge that trick you told me about my back well you should see what it does for my front !!! It's that old problem of my shoulders being pulled forward. I am going to take a towel and bring it down behind head forcing me to pin my shoulders back to stretch these out. When I walk I will pin my shoulders back as well until it becomes natural. Thus is going to make a fuggin huge difference.

    Chris you were the first to notice it I think this has just set off a whole series of improvements thank you guys for this.

    Also want to thank you Steve and sorry I am a bit of a bonehead sometimes but what are you gonna do...? I am trying just to follow exactly what you told me and here are some observations. I have never seen so much leaning so fast without losing significant weight. I feel amazing all the time. I feel fit and my stamina is through the roof. Never have I handles so much volume with so much power while getting so much aching isolation. Every day is a party at the gym.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Thanks Doug!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Thanks Doug!
    You're welcome, 9 weeks out for you and your are all over it.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Glad that shoulder tip works for you!!! Sure you back poses will be more effective!
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    Quote Originally Posted by edje007 View Post
    Glad that shoulder tip works for you!!! Sure you back poses will be more effective!
    Front ones too lats widen out on front relaxed and front lat spread as well. I had this problem years ago and it's kind of a posture thing, I overcame it for my first show but old habits die hard I guess.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Good workout yesterday for back and calves did a an extra set on all back exercises. With my new focus on my exercises I am gaining some strength in areas I was week before. Like I said I am having a pretty good time with this.

    There is a definite pattern here I seem to get a really quick jump in the fat loss department at the beginning of the week as I already see some pretty positive changes since Saturday.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Great leg day high volume good power all around. Weighed in at 198.5 which does make more sense, still I am holding my size very well and made much more progress than I expected body comp wise.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Good deal, sounds like things are moving in the right direction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Good deal, sounds like things are moving in the right direction.
    Yah I am content with what I a seeing so far. Performance is through the roof, I just feel really good.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
  

  
 

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