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  1. Yeah the science behind that is pretty good. If I worked out in the evening I would give it a shot but it is not optimal for someone who works out in the morning.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html


  2. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah the science behind that is pretty good. If I worked out in the evening I would give it a shot but it is not optimal for someone who works out in the morning.
    Same conclusion I have come too bro...

    -Chris
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah the science behind that is pretty good. If I worked out in the evening I would give it a shot but it is not optimal for someone who works out in the morning.
    Yah I was thinking that.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  4. When is your next show again, or are you just getting contest ripped for the hell of it?
    Dr. Albert Scott Representative for FINAFLEX
    www.finaflex.com
    Redefine Yourself..... REDEFINE EVERYTHING!

  5. see, i follow IF and am bulking, i feel like i am not getting the same size gains i would if i wastn following just becasue of what i read. At the same tiem i am making some reall ynice gains for the first time in a while, plus, i REALLY like to eat alot, and i feel like IF lets you get awaywith some crap like i eat a decent amount o ben and jerrys ice cream and poptarts and think im doin pretty good, im just afraid i coudl be making better progress on a regular diet? what do you think? maybe jsut ahve a few more meals in the IF window?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    see, i follow IF and am bulking, i feel like i am not getting the same size gains i would if i wastn following just becasue of what i read. At the same tiem i am making some reall ynice gains for the first time in a while, plus, i REALLY like to eat alot, and i feel like IF lets you get awaywith some crap like i eat a decent amount o ben and jerrys ice cream and poptarts and think im doin pretty good, im just afraid i coudl be making better progress on a regular diet? what do you think? maybe jsut ahve a few more meals in the IF window?
    Are you still 150 lbs at 69"? If so then just eat. A lot
    Independent Review

  7. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    When is your next show again, or are you just getting contest ripped for the hell of it?
    I may go to one here May 11th this whole process has me peaking on that date so I am about 50/50 right now. Depends on how things go.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    see, i follow IF and am bulking, i feel like i am not getting the same size gains i would if i wastn following just becasue of what i read. At the same tiem i am making some reall ynice gains for the first time in a while, plus, i REALLY like to eat alot, and i feel like IF lets you get awaywith some crap like i eat a decent amount o ben and jerrys ice cream and poptarts and think im doin pretty good, im just afraid i coudl be making better progress on a regular diet? what do you think? maybe jsut ahve a few more meals in the IF window?
    IF is better for easy gainers if you ask me. I can get more out of it in a bulk situation cuz I can really put the grub away. The other factor for me is I do not need a large calorie surplus to make serous gains, nor should I ever be in a large calorie surplus for any reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by PalmFist View Post
    Are you still 150 lbs at 69"? If so then just eat. A lot
    Yah IF is more for endo's I keep saying. If you are under 200 lbs you are either very cut or you are no endo, generally speaking
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  8. Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    i REALLY like to eat alot, and i feel like IF lets you get awaywith some crap like i eat a decent amount o ben and jerrys ice cream and poptarts and think im doin pretty good?
    another MAJOR problem i have, with majority of ppl who practice this (irregardless of any goal)..
    that mentality is not conducive to hitting on all cylinders. period.
    'it lets me eat crap'
    no. quality micros of your macros WILL ALWAYS be a better option, regardless of whatever dietary protocol you wish to follow..
    if you are following a plan because it lets you feel good about making weak dietary choices, you have defeated the purposes of the plan, and do not think like a bodybuilder who wants to continue making musculature gains, but rather simply another joe who doesn't understand dietary discretion

    i am not being callous or pointed to you personally man, because a LOT of ppl share that view..
    it is not conducive to your goals to think that way, and never will be
    period

  9. If you look in the IF thread a trend you will see is a lot like what you see here with me. Going from normal to IF for a while loving the freedom of it, leaning up some while eating poorer food choices then when they go on a bulk they revert back to 4-6 meals a day. If your main goal is to gain as much lean body mass as possible then that is what you should be doing. Doug is a different story he is on a perpetual recomp, and when he is on anabolics he grows well with his plan. He is also at a point where he is trying to refine his size and work on balance instead of just worrying about size.

    They guys I will be competing with are all pretty big and thick so if I want to be competitive I need to be bigger everywhere, and ripped to shreds.

    If Martin Berkham is your idea of the ideal physique then IF is great, however he even admits he did not gain most of his size on IF he gained it before then then refined it.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  10. I gotta agree there. Quality is more important than anything when it comes to diet imo.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    another MAJOR problem i have, with majority of ppl who practice this (irregardless of any goal)..
    that mentality is not conducive to hitting on all cylinders. period.
    'it lets me eat crap'
    no. quality micros of your macros WILL ALWAYS be a better option, regardless of whatever dietary protocol you wish to follow..
    if you are following a plan because it lets you feel good about making weak dietary choices, you have defeated the purposes of the plan, and do not think like a bodybuilder who wants to continue making musculature gains, but rather simply another joe who doesn't understand dietary discretion

    i am not being callous or pointed to you personally man, because a LOT of ppl share that view..
    it is not conducive to your goals to think that way, and never will be
    period
    Depends...Carbbackloading works under the premise that you eat "crap" carbs. I've seen results of those who follow it correctly and it works. I have trouble with it because I just can't eat all that crap. The idea of eating candy or pastries sounds fine but actually doing it doesn't work for me. But again, CBL is ultra low carb up until PWO and then their is a slim window to get carbs. Not just eating crap. And the premise is the simpler the carbs the quicker your body clears then and insulin level decrease. One big spike shuttling into your muscles. I like the idea but most people do not follow the protocol and confuse it with IF or leangains.

    I personally could not eat enough in the small window for CBL to get a positive gain in mass. I could lose fat because the first part of the day is either fasted or Ultra Low Carb.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    another MAJOR problem i have, with majority of ppl who practice this (irregardless of any goal)..
    that mentality is not conducive to hitting on all cylinders. period.
    'it lets me eat crap'
    no. quality micros of your macros WILL ALWAYS be a better option, regardless of whatever dietary protocol you wish to follow..
    if you are following a plan because it lets you feel good about making weak dietary choices, you have defeated the purposes of the plan, and do not think like a bodybuilder who wants to continue making musculature gains, but rather simply another joe who doesn't understand dietary discretion

    i am not being callous or pointed to you personally man, because a LOT of ppl share that view..
    it is not conducive to your goals to think that way, and never will be
    period
    A lot of what you are saying is right on the money, if you look at my diet 95% of what I eat would be good choices on any dietary regimen. That changes with the situation of course and as I continue that will become more strict. That being said you can get away with a bit more on this diet but you cannot use that as a excuse to eat a lot of crap on a regular basis. You will notice that when I treat myself it's with things that a lot of people would not even consider treats. I do because I can't eat them all the time. Take my power balls for instance oats, honey, natural pb and protein powder is all they are. Stil they are so calorie dense it's hard to work them into my daily diet so they become my treats. The other thing I use is fruit. I have one meal out and it's usually chicken swarma's which are mostly chicken and vegtables on a pita.

    So yes you still have to eat almost all the same foods as on any other diet if you want to progress. If you have to eat a lot of calories to make gains though, you'd be better off doing some other diet plan. Again this diet is for efficient body types.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  13. Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    Depends...Carbbackloading works under the premise that you eat "crap" carbs. I've seen results of those who follow it correctly and it works. I have trouble with it because I just can't eat all that crap. The idea of eating candy or pastries sounds fine but actually doing it doesn't work for me. But again, CBL is ultra low carb up until PWO and then their is a slim window to get carbs. Not just eating crap. And the premise is the simpler the carbs the quicker your body clears then and insulin level decrease. One big spike shuttling into your muscles. I like the idea but most people do not follow the protocol and confuse it with IF or leangains.

    I personally could not eat enough in the small window for CBL to get a positive gain in mass. I could lose fat because the first part of the day is either fasted or Ultra Low Carb.
    Yah I have tried that and it did help me lose faster but I felt like crap for 2 days after eating all that junk.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  14. When I bulk, or have bulked, I ate all day. Not just a set number of meals. I ate breakfast had two or three snack times before lunch. Gorged at lunch, had a couple snacks before WO, Had dinner, Protein Shake, Snacks, Pre Bed time snack, bed time snack.

    I only had one big meal a day but I ate or took a supp all day. I blew up easily to 260. I just wish I was using more volume when I did this. I would have added much more muscle than I did on 531.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Yah I have tried that and it did help me lose faster but I felt like crap for 2 days after eating all that junk.
    Yeah the bloat is bad. I used white rice and potatoes and it helped. But i rarely ate more than 300 g of Carbs.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    If you look in the IF thread a trend you will see is a lot like what you see here with me. Going from normal to IF for a while loving the freedom of it, leaning up some while eating poorer food choices then when they go on a bulk they revert back to 4-6 meals a day. If your main goal is to gain as much lean body mass as possible then that is what you should be doing. Doug is a different story he is on a perpetual recomp, and when he is on anabolics he grows well with his plan. He is also at a point where he is trying to refine his size and work on balance instead of just worrying about size.

    They guys I will be competing with are all pretty big and thick so if I want to be competitive I need to be bigger everywhere, and ripped to shreds.

    If Martin Berkham is your idea of the ideal physique then IF is great, however he even admits he did not gain most of his size on IF he gained it before then then refined it.
    Yah I don't really know what I can gain on LG but I think I could cram in quite a bit more food so I bet I could gain fairly well being that I gain pretty easy. Still I would have to eat quite high quality. You can concoct stuff that tastes pretty good with really high quality foods as long as you have the caloric latitude to do so.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  17. Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    Yeah the bloat is bad. I used white rice and potatoes and it helped. But i rarely ate more than 300 g of Carbs.
    I did the one where you jam 2000 grams in, in 24 hours.. fuggin brutal. It was fun for about 30 minutes.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  18. Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    When I bulk, or have bulked, I ate all day. Not just a set number of meals. I ate breakfast had two or three snack times before lunch. Gorged at lunch, had a couple snacks before WO, Had dinner, Protein Shake, Snacks, Pre Bed time snack, bed time snack.

    I only had one big meal a day but I ate or took a supp all day. I blew up easily to 260. I just wish I was using more volume when I did this. I would have added much more muscle than I did on 531.
    Bulking is just a bad idea for me, I even have to be very careful in a lean bulk.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  19. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    I did the one where you jam 2000 grams in, in 24 hours.. fuggin brutal. It was fun for about 30 minutes.
    Damn. Thats crazy. Was that from the book? Under the strength accumulation I was supposed to eat 800-900g PWO which for me would be about 1.5-2 hrs before bed. Just was too much for me. CBL works best when you can train from about 3-6 in the afternoon. So you have time to get the carbs in.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post

    I did the one where you jam 2000 grams in, in 24 hours.. fuggin brutal. It was fun for about 30 minutes.
    Good God man. Makes me feel fat just thinking about it.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    Damn. Thats crazy. Was that from the book? Under the strength accumulation I was supposed to eat 800-900g PWO which for me would be about 1.5-2 hrs before bed. Just was too much for me. CBL works best when you can train from about 3-6 in the afternoon. So you have time to get the carbs in.
    It's called skiploading...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  22. Quote Originally Posted by mattikus View Post
    Good God man. Makes me feel fat just thinking about it.
    Actually cause rapid weight loss when used with a significant calorie restriction for 6 days and load on the 7thi..
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  23. REALLY good stuff in here guys, learning alot

    im thinkin of looking more into CBL but my workout times seem to always vary, another reason i like IF

  24. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post

    If Martin Berkham is your idea of the ideal physique then IF is great
    Martin Berkham is def not my idea of the ideal physique. Kai Greene is my idea of THE ideal physique
    Independent Review
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