Havoc Write-up

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    Havoc Write-up


    HAVOC





    Havoc represents the latest in a long, distinguished line of hormonal products designed to optimize the body's ability to maximize muscular hypertrophy. With an overall Q ratio of 12, Havoc, being completely non-estrogenic, offers an ideal composition to maximize strength and lean mass gains, with minimal side effects such as lethargy or gyno. Havoc is the peak of performance...period!

    Remember the popular prohormones in the past? Love to have something as strong or stronger than those products like 1-AD, Halodrol-50, PheraPlex?

    Havoc's active ingredient, 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol, is an analog of an aromatase inhibitor used safely in Japan for decades. Independent studies have shown that Havoc is not only 15 times more myotrophic than Halodrol-50 and 20x more myotrophic than ProMagnon, but has an incredible myotrophic ratio of 12, whereas Halodrol-50 has a myotrophic ratio of 2.6 and Pro-Magnon a ratio of only 1.1. What does this all mean? That on a milligram-per-milligram basis, Havoc is far less likely to induce undesirable, androgenic mediated-type side effects such as acne, hair loss, etc.

    Havoc is the next generation hormone to deliver the AMAZING results: lean, dry, hard, quality chizeled gains; without the unwanted and undesirable side effects from the old school hormones of yesterday!

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    Label Data
    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size: 1 capsule
    Servings per Container: 90

    Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
    2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol 10 mg **


    * Percent Daily Values are based on a 2000 calorie diet.
    ** Percent Daily Values not established.

    OTHER INGREDIENTS: Gelatin (Capsule), Microcrystalline Cellulose.




    Available at nutraplanet

    Click here for HAVOC
    Last edited by Trauma1; 08-19-2008 at 10:27 PM.

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    HAVOC Facts And Dosing Protocol



    Maximum Strength/Mass Gains With Limited Side Effects:

    -Dosing range: 30-50mg/day for 4 weeks


    -Dose Schedule Recommendations: You should always have your dosing split evenly throughout the day to help maintain maximum blood level concentration of the compound. (I.E.)When 40mg/day is used, i recommend a 20mg dose about 45 mins - 1 hour pre-workout. Try to have one of your havoc doses be within that 45 min - 1 hour period pre-workout for enhanced training effect. Individual workout times will vary with each user, so set that up accordingly. As for the remaining two doses(10mg), evenly split them over the rest of the day around your pre-workout dose. Try to keep your dosing as close to 6-8 hours a part as possible.

    The majority of user feedback indicates that 40mg/day is the best median dose for inducing maximum strength/size benefits while demonstrating fairly limited side effects. This does NOT include everyone however. Some users may have good/similar results with a slightly higher or lower dosing. Individual results may vary. These suggestions are based upon the majority of the user feedback that we've received.


    Sample Havoc Cycles: Please note, these are JUST EXAMPLES of setting up a havoc cycle. Please utilize them accordingly to give yourself an overall idea on how to set it up. You will have to adjust the pattern to meet your own schedule and needs.


    Havoc(20mg/day):

    1st Dose(10mg): 8-10am
    2nd Dose(10mg): 4-6pm

    Havoc(30mg/day):

    1st Dose(10mg): 8-10am OR 1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
    2nd Dose(10mg): 2-3pm 2nd Dose(10mg): 4-6pm
    3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm

    Havoc(40mg/day):

    1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
    2nd Dose(10mg): 2-3pm
    3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm

    Havoc(50mg/day):

    1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
    2nd Dose(20mg): 2-3pm
    3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm




    Supplements To Utilize While Taking Havoc:



    -Taurine: Taurine is an amino sulfonic acid that is found in high levels in the skeletal and heart muscles of humans, as well as in white blood cells, and the central nervous system. Taurine aids the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium, and magnesium in and out of cells and thus helps generate nerve impulses. Muscle pumps/cramping occurs when there is a disruption of the movement of these electrolytes in and out of muscle cells. See below for a more detailed explanation of the pathway. Dosing: (5-6) grams/daily can be taken to help limit excessive muscle pumps/cramping that may occur. I recommend dosing both pre(3 grams)/post(3 grams)workout.

    -Fluid/electrolyte intake: It is also very important that you keep your fluid and electrolyte(sodium,potassium,c alcium,magnesium) intake very sufficient throughout the day. Fluid/electrolyte loss through training depletes interstitial fluids(basically the fluid that lies outside of the cells)which also attributes to muscle pump/cramping issues, and here's how:

    Painful muscle pumps/cramps occur due to loss of the osmotically active particles(mainly NaCL or salt) outside the cell within the interstitial spaces. This causes a disturbance in the osmotic balance(pull) of fluid moving in and out of muscle cells. This then results in muscle cells excessively swelling(because they contain more osmotically active particles and fluid)and you develop very painful pumps. This process can also lead to problems with the calcium pump inside muscle cells. This will cause VERY painful cramps due to the muscle being locked in a contractive state. This is why adequate fluid and electrolye intake during training is very important to maintain this balance and prevent these issues.

    -Gut Health: The probiotic contained within this product(Lactobacillus Casei Ke-99) can assist with enhanced nutrient absorbtion within the digestive tract by competetively excluding pathogenic bacteria that can prevent proper nutrient absorbtion. This in turn can equal out to better overall gains in the end. Gut Health also notes impressive immune boosting properties. Dosing is as follows: Take 2 capsules/daily for the first 5 days, followed by 1 capsule/daily there-after for maintenance. Please see the Gut Health Sticky for much more info.

    -NOxidant:NOxidant is a potent blend of antioxidants specifically designed to counteract reactive nitrogen species - harmful free radicals produced from nitric oxide. NOxidant is best used in conjunction with nitric oxide enhancing supplements such as arginine and citrulline malate. Taken post-workout, NOxidant can protect the body from reactive nitrogen species to ensure an optimal anabolic environment and maximize your results. Dosing is as follows: On workout days, take 3 capsules post-workout or at bedtime. On off days, take 3 capsules before breakfast in the A.M. Please see the NOxidant Write-up for more detailed info.

    -DHEA:(Dehydroepiandrosterone)DHEA is the precursor of androstenedione, which can undergo further conversion to produce the androgen testosterone and the estrogens estrone and estradiol. This can assist in maintaining libido while taking havoc. Due to havoc's properties of estrogen suppression, this can lead to suppressed libido in some users. DHEA at 100-200mg/day has shown in some user feedback to help limit this adverse effect and maintain an adequate libido. I HIGHLY recommend Primordial Performances "Dermacrine" for your DHEA product:

    -Branched Chain Amino Acids:(Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine) They make up about 1/3 of skeletal muscle in the human body. They play are very important role in protein synthesis and recovery. BCAA's assist in maintaining muscle mass as well as contributing to new growth through the muscle hypertrophy process. I recommend drinking BCAA's during your workout and into the postwork period. There are many effective BCAA supplements on the market. Choose the one that you like best.

    -Liver(Hepatic)/Blood Pressure/Prostate/Cholesterol Support:(NAC: N-Acetyl Cysteine, Milk Thistle, Celery Seed Extract, Hawthorne Berry, Saw Palmetto, Red Yeast Rice, COQ10) These supplements help to minimize/limit possible adverse side effects in these areas. It's suggested to take your liver support supps. at least 3 hours a part from the Havoc itself. This helps ensure maximum effects from both substances.

    -Joint Support(Tendon/Ligament):(Cissus Quadrangularis, Fish Oils:Omega-3 fatty acids)Many users utilize cissus while taking havoc to support/alleviate potential joint issues. Cissus assists in the repair and maintenance of your tendons and ligaments. This supplement can prove vital as your strength rapidly increases placing more stress/wear and tear on your joints overall. Fish Oils(Omega-3 in particular)can help to lubricate joints if taken in sufficient dosages. EFAs(Essential fatty acids) are needed for maintaining proper cell membrane structure--which allows the proper distribution of nutrients throughout your body. They are also needed for proper prostaglandin formation and maintenance, and most notably for the efficient metabolism of cholesterol.


    -DCP: This RPN product can be a welcome addition to any Havoc cycle for many reasons. DCP contains PLCAR(Propionyl-L-Carnitine) which can assist in androgen receptor proliferation increasing the amount of actual receptors present on muscles cells thereby enhancing new muscle growth opportunity. DCP also contains TTA(Tetradecylthioacetic Acid)and Salvia Miltiorrhiza Extract. These substances are responsible for liberating fatty acids from adipocytes(Fat Cells) into the bloodstream to be used as fuel. The PLCAR is also responsible in assisting transport of fatty acids into the mitochondria(powerhouse of the cell)to be used as energy.

    So in essence, DCP can assist you in your havoc cycle by assisting with more lean type gains and enhanced overall energy/endurance. For the full DCP write-up, please see the Sticky thread.




    Supplements To Utilize During A Havoc PCT:




    -Creatine:(Monohydrate, Ethyl Ester, Gluconate) Creatine is an important supplement to utilize during the pct period for many reasons. Creatine acts by increasing ATP production within the body enabling for more noteable strength and endurance during workouts.

    Some of the most substantial benefits of creatine supplementation include:

    -Creatine helps in promoting of lean-muscle mass.
    -Creatine helps in reducing muscle wasting in post-surgical patients
    -It increases muscle cell volume by increasing water.
    -Creatine increases work capacity in muscle.
    -It increases muscle stores of creatine for short term energy.
    -It increases glycogen re-synthesis.

    -Anti-Cortisol: These supplements assist you in helping to maintain your gains during the pct period. Cortisol suppression helps maintain size gains by limiting the release of the potent adrenal hormone cortisol. If this is left unadressed during your PCT, this can lead to a dreaded muscular destructive "catabolic state." This state is undesireable to the user as muscle is broken down and used for energy. This means some of the hard earned gains you've recently aquired are going to waste and being used as fuel for the body's daily processes. Using an anti-cortisol supplement helps to limit the amount of cortisol released overall. This assists in maintaining a more anabolic state further preserving your aquired gains.

    -SERM(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator):(Tamoxifen, Raloxifene, Clomiphene, Toremifene) A serm assists in blocking the effects of elevated estrogen(By binding with estrogen receptor sites preventing them from producing undesired estrogen related effects) while the body balances out its own endogenous hormones and effectively upregulates/restores its HPTA(Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis.)

    -Natural Testosterone Booster: During your pct, your natural endogenous testosterone levels are suppressed(some users may be more-so than others.) These supplements help to kickstart your natural testosterone production and ultimately assist in restoring your HPTA(Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis.) This can be done by either stimulating the testes to produce more testosterone overall, or by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme(I.E, Aromatase Inhibitors) preventing estrogen conversion. This process tricks the body into producing more testosterone(which the body thinks will be used to convert into estrogen)to compensate for the unequal balance in estrogen/testosterone ratio.

    -Branched Chain Amino Acids:(Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine) They make up about 1/3 of skeletal muscle in the human body. They play are very important role in protein synthesis as well as assisting in maintaining aquired muscle mass during the pct period. I recommend drinking BCAA's during your workout and into the postwork period. There are many effective BCAA supplements on the market. Choose the one that you like best.

    -Liver(Hepatic)/Blood Pressure/Prostate/Cholesterol Support: (NAC: N-Acetyl Cysteine), Milk Thistle,Celery Seed Extract, Hawthorne Berry, Saw Palmetto, Red Yeast Rice, COQ10) These supplements help to minimize/limit possible adverse side effects in these areas.

    -NOxidant: See above for NOxidant details.

    -Gut Health: See above for Gut Health details.

    -The Testosterone Recovery Stack: put together by Primordial Performance is a great addition to your Havoc PCT. See below for product description/details of the stack:



    Some Random Havoc Q&A:


    Q: Do i take Havoc with or without food?

    A: Havoc is a methylated compound. This basically means that it is able to survive the first pass effect(metabolism)of the liver(creating very high bioavailabilty)allowing for the compound to be released into systemic cirrculation still intact. Taking it with or without food will not significantly effect its absorbtion. It's a personal choice to take Havoc with or witout food.

    Q: Sometimes when i take Havoc late in the day, i can't sleep at night. Why is that?

    A: Havoc has been reported in some users to cause insomnia like issues. If that is the case, don't take havoc within 4 hours of bedtime. If that does not work, i'd cease taking havoc 6-8 hours before bedtime or try a sleep aid to assist with sleep induction.

    Q: Do i need to use a SERM during my Havoc PCT(Post Cylce Therapy)?

    A: YES, you NEED to use a serm....... period!! There seems to be a common misconception that havoc is a "mild" compound overall in regard to HPTA shutdown. Every person and every experience WILL be different. While the side effects are often very mild in themselves, that doesn't mean that your natural endogenous test level(HPTA) isn't being shut down. Please, treat a Havoc PCT seriously and use the proper ancillary supplements to ensure maximum recovery.

    Q: What type of results can i expect from Havoc?

    A: This is all very dependent upon what your overall goals are. Havoc can be used to deliver impressive strength and lean mass gains if your diet and training are on point. An 8-12 pound gain in size is not an uncommon feedback comment by many users.

    Q: Can i stack other compounds with Havoc?

    A: Yes, you can stack certain compounds with havoc. Havoc would stack BEST with a NON-methyl compound that is somewhat (wet) in nature. As long as the 2nd compound is of a NON-methyl nature, you can stack it with havoc. The (dry) effects of havoc stacked with a NON-methyl(wet)compound would work well together. Some good examples of currently available stackers would be: 3-AD(Anabolic Xtreme), Propadrol(EST), Furazadrol(Axis Labs).

    I DON'T recommend that Havoc be stacked unless you are VERY EXPERIENCED in this regard. If you are a fist time user of Havoc, please RUN IT SOLO and don't stack it!

    Here is a great stacking option to look into with Havoc. Primordial Performances "1-T" Transdermal. Check out the link below for more info:


    Q: What type of diet should i use with Havoc?

    A: Again, this is very dependent upon what your overall goals are. Havoc respondes well to a standard bulking diet/training yielding some very impressive strength and size gains. Havoc can also be used to maintain size and strength while cutting or recomping. The key is your diet HAS to be in check and formulated for this type of cycle. Like anything in life, you will make it what it is.

    Q: Can i drink alcohol while taking Havoc?

    A: If you aren't responsible enough to abstain from drinking alcohol while taking Havoc, then you shouldn't be taking it in the first place. Alcohol will ABSOLUTELY add un-needed additional stress to your liver. To put it simply, DON'T DO IT!!

    Q: Can i take Tylenol(Acetaminophen), Motrin(Ibuprofen), or Naprosyn(Naproxen Sodium) while on Havoc for pain?

    A: In short, i would avoid tylenol at all costs. Acetaminophen (tylenol) is significantly metabolized hepatically(by the liver.) This WILL add major stress to the liver on top of the havoc compound. I DO NOT advise to its use while taking havoc.

    Motrin and naprosen are NSAIDS(Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.) They control pain by the inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis which contributes to the mechanism of our pain response. Nsaid use is also believed in theory to inhibit protein synthesis leading to hindered overall muscle gains. Nsaids are also metabolized hepatically(by the liver.) While their overall hepatic(liver)stress may not be AS significant as tylenol, it still adds a significant amount. Tylenol and Nsaids are STRONGLY advised to avoid while taking havoc.

    Q: How long should a typical Havoc cycle be?

    A: Havoc should be taken no longer than 4 weeks for a straight cycle. During that time frame, you will receive the maximum benefits/results from the compound. Some people may choose to pulse cycle havoc. A pulse cycle can be run for up to 6 weeks. Pulse cycle guidelines for havoc will be placed in this write-up shortly.

    Q: Will havoc cause any androgenic related side effects such as hairloss, an enlarged prostate, or acne?

    A: Based on overall user feedback, androgenic side effects from havoc have been mild to non-existant. That is not to say that some people may experience them, however the majority of user feedback indicates mild to no significant androgenic side effects. This is one of the great factors about the compound.

    Q: I've started to lose my libido while on Havoc. Is there something i can take to counteract this adverse effect?

    A: Yes, there is. In some individuals this adverse effect may occur, however the degree of actual occurance varies greatly among users. Even with that in mind, the majority of reviews/feedback indicate that libido remained unchanged or slightly elevated.

    If libido suppression does occur, we recommend adding in some DHEA while on cycle. Sometimes the Havoc compound itself can suppress estrogen to the point where it effects libido. By adding in approx 100-200mg of DHEA, user feedback indicates this has resolved this issue in many.

    Q: Do i need to take all the support supplements for Havoc that have been recommended in this write-up to have an effective cycle?

    A: No. Many of the additional supplements such as Gut Health, NOxidant, and DCP are optional and were suggested because they CAN amplify your results(muscle gains) with a Havoc cycle. However, they are not needed to still have a very effective cycle. Your diet and training are as important as anything to making any cycle successful. I've listed above the potential benefits gained when adding in these other great RPN products to your cycle if you so choose.

    Q: When should i begin using my cycle support supplements such as Hawthorne Berry, NAC, Milk Thistle, Celery Seed Extract, Red Yeast Rice, COQ10, and Saw Palmetto? Also, how long should i take them?

    A: I would begin taking all of your cycle support supplements approx 1-2 weeks prior to starting your cycle. This allows you body to go into the cycle with adequate support already in place. You liver can actually store many of these substances such as NAC which increases synthesis of glutithione. This is a very potent anti-oxidant that is very essential in hepatic(liver) detox and protection.

    Your cycle support supplements should be taken from the 1-2 week period prior to starting your cycle, all the way until your PCT is complete.
    Last edited by Trauma1; 12-06-2008 at 01:36 AM.

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    I always read that Havoc was used in Japan for years. In what capacity?

    Is it in store shelves in Japan as some other brand?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post
    I always read that Havoc was used in Japan for years. In what capacity?

    Is it in store shelves in Japan as some other brand?
    You might be thinking of Epitiostanol(basically unmethylated Havoc), which I believe was(is?) used as a breast cancer drug.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpen22 View Post
    You might be thinking of Epitiostanol(basically unmethylated Havoc), which I believe was(is?) used as a breast cancer drug.
    Havoc's active ingredient, 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol, is an analog of an aromatase inhibitor used safely in Japan for decades.
    Not sure what the jargon above refers to. But this is what I have meant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post
    Not sure what the jargon above refers to. But this is what I have meant.
    That's what I thought. I believe that is referring to Epitiostanol, an anti-estrogen drug. http://jjco.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...bstract/3/2/99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpen22 View Post
    You might be thinking of Epitiostanol(basically unmethylated Havoc), which I believe was(is?) used as a breast cancer drug.
    You're right on ryan! Aromatase inhibitors are absolutely used in breast cancer treatment.

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    So are you going to continue production on Havoc or is it really going to stop soon?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pikaberdot View Post
    So are you going to continue production on Havoc or is it really going to stop soon?
    As of right now production will continue......How long? That is not known at this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    As of right now production will continue......How long? That is not known at this time.
    Well, I just ordered 2 bottles, on backorder. Lets pray.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goat View Post
    Well, I just ordered 2 bottles, on backorder. Lets pray.
    If you order it..........they will come

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    As of right now production will continue......How long? That is not known at this time.
    Let me clarify this once and for all, since it appears to be a question that is common.

    We reserved and made payment on a mid-sized quantity of material. This material is extremely labor intensive to make, and takes a lot of time per batch. OUr instructions to them were to ship out material as soon as assay returns verifying quality, even if it were 1-2 kilos at a time. This is the reason it is constantly going in and out of stock.

    Once this material runs out, Havoc will not be manufactured by us anymore.
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    how long will the material last? any guestimate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtP View Post
    how long will the material last? any guestimate?
    No more than a couple of months, best case.
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    I'll be getting a few bottles then when NP stocks it again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtP View Post
    I'll be getting a few bottles then when NP stocks it again.
    A wise man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    A wise man
    I'd like to think so. I'm scared that NP won't get it back in stock though. Is that something I should be worried about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtP View Post
    I'd like to think so. I'm scared that NP won't get it back in stock though. Is that something I should be worried about?
    As Dsade said shipments will probably trickle in bits at a time due to manufacturing and verifying quality purposes. Just keep checking back at nutra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtP View Post
    I'd like to think so. I'm scared that NP won't get it back in stock though. Is that something I should be worried about?
    NP will be getting some when we get the shipment.
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    This might be a stupid question but should I take Havoc on days that I don't lift? I'm a few months away from using it but I want to gather all the info as soon as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtP View Post
    This might be a stupid question but should I take Havoc on days that I don't lift? I'm a few months away from using it but I want to gather all the info as soon as possible.
    Are you pulsing it? What does your cycle look like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Are you pulsing it? What does your cycle look like?
    I will most likely not be pulsing it. 95% sure on that. I'll be running it with AI's Cycle Support during and post and possibly creatine since I have so damn much of it. Of course the usuals: Protein, Fish/Flax Oil, Multi. PCT I'll probably use some Diesel Test Hardcore with R4W. might use R4W during and post cycle. Ill have plenty of nolva on hand also. My brother and I stocked up on some a few weeks ago. Might run some Retain 2 for PCT also. I've never used any PH so I'm not sure how my cort levels will be after the cycle so it wouldn't hurt to use it. Probably be using SuperCissus Rx during the cycle because I sometimes have joint problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtP View Post
    I will most likely not be pulsing it. 95% sure on that. I'll be running it with AI's Cycle Support during and post and possibly creatine since I have so damn much of it. Of course the usuals: Protein, Fish/Flax Oil, Multi. post cycle therapy I'll probably use some Diesel Test Hardcore with R4W. might use R4W during and post cycle. Ill have plenty of nolva on hand also. My brother and I stocked up on some a few weeks ago. Might run some Retain 2 for post cycle therapy also. I've never used any PH so I'm not sure how my cort levels will be after the cycle so it wouldn't hurt to use it. Probably be using SuperCissus Rx during the cycle because I sometimes have joint problems.
    If you're running a straight cycle you need to take havoc everyday. I would have the dosing split so you maintain a constant stable blood level of the compound to achieve maximum results. The cissus is good if you have joint issues in general. Also look into adding our Gut Health in there for its many awesome benefits.

    The Nolva, diesel test, and retain 2 will go nicely in your post cycle therapy. Definately add creatine in there for your post cycle therapy to help maintain your gains. If you need any help setting up the cycle PM me bro.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    If you need any help setting up the cycle PM me bro.
    will do! any additions besides the Gut Health? I'll probably pick some up with my next order.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtP View Post
    will do! any additions besides the Gut Health? I'll probably pick some up with my next order.
    Well you know all the RPN products are worth throwing in the cart. If you don't have any taurine i'd pick some up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Well you know all the RPN products are worth throwing in the cart. If you don't have any taurine i'd pick some up.
    taurine, ALCAR, glutamine in bulk from NP. only the best!! Still have the Java from my wifes V Basket but ill probably pick up the GH/Java combo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtP View Post
    taurine, ALCAR, glutamine in bulk from NP. only the best!! Still have the Java from my wifes V Basket but ill probably pick up the GH/Java combo.
    Sounds like a plan!

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    I ordered one bottle from NP a few days ago before it went out of stock again.
    My order arrived yesterday, I can't wait to try it! But I'm not ready and won't be for a few months.
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    Havoc Newbie


    Hello and this is my first post on here.

    I got very interested in joining this forum because of what i've heard about havoc. Seems like a very good product. I am very new to PH and the like.

    I am seconds away from getting 2 bottles of havok, but first I need to know (what to use for PCT) ...yes i did read, and I am more confused. thats number #1 and # 2 ( How should I cycle it?)

    I'm also taking PhytoTestosterone, this is my 2nd week. Great product also. #3 (Will PT have negative effects with Havok?)

    These are my concerns...can I get some straight answers pls.

    ty
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoPollo View Post
    Hello and this is my first post on here.

    I got very interested in joining this forum because of what i've heard about havoc. Seems like a very good product. I am very new to PH and the like.

    I am seconds away from getting 2 bottles of havok, but first I need to know (what to use for post cycle therapy) ...yes i did read, and I am more confused. thats number #1 and # 2 ( How should I cycle it?)

    I'm also taking PhytoTestosterone, this is my 2nd week. Great product also. #3 (Will PT have negative effects with Havok?)

    These are my concerns...can I get some straight answers pls.

    ty
    Marco i'd be glad to help you out. Hit me up with a PM and i'll help get you a nice cycle going.

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    Thanks Bro


    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Marco i'd be glad to help you out. Hit me up with a PM and i'll help get you a nice cycle going.
    Ok..I PM'ed you.....
    ty:bb3:
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    Smile need help with what to use for havoc cycle


    Trauma1 could you give me some help on setting up the perfect cycle with havoc. what would you recommend i use for pre, during and post cycle to make sure im completely covered. Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguns View Post
    Trauma1 could you give me some help on setting up the perfect cycle with havoc. what would you recommend i use for pre, during and post cycle to make sure im completely covered. Thanks
    It all really depends on YOU! I would read other logs and see what others have used pre, post, etc. There is so much information out there man...just search for it...I would advise against trying to obtain your cycle and PCT ideas in just a few posts to be "completely covered"...
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    Quote Originally Posted by maynehood171 View Post
    It all really depends on YOU! I would read other logs and see what others have used pre, post, etc. There is so much information out there man...just search for it...I would advise against trying to obtain your cycle and post cycle therapy ideas in just a few posts to be "completely covered"...
    Very true and nice response.

    Bigguns, i encourage you to do some searching on Aminds and you'll find a wealth of information in this regard. If you have any other questions after that point, i'd be more than glad to help you out.

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    Thanks for replying, i will check out other threads and see what i can come up with. I didnt know if you had more experience in this and had something you preferred more than the other or not. Again thanks
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    Ok, after reading about other cycle support i have come to the conclusion i will use Cycle support while on havoc thruout the whole cycle. And post cycle will consist of Post Cycle support and Diesel test hardcore, along with creatine. Does this sound good while running havoc at 10/30/30/30. I would appreciate all the input you guys can give me on this. Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguns View Post
    Ok, after reading about other cycle support i have come to the conclusion i will use Cycle support while on havoc thruout the whole cycle. And post cycle will consist of Post Cycle support and Diesel test hardcore, along with creatine. Does this sound good while running havoc at 10/30/30/30. I would appreciate all the input you guys can give me on this. Thanks
    I personally think things look good except I wouldn't waste a week at 10mg. Maybe for the first 2 days max but go to at least 20mg thereafter. Just my opinion
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    I agree don't waste a week at 10 as you will not see anything significant. I felt the most gains came from 40mg but so did the sides so see first how 30 will do for you then go with how your body responds...if I were you I'd go for a SERM in PCT since that is the holy grail of PCT now-a-days. Some would even say it's a necessity. Cycle Support is a must but start it 2 weeks or so prior to starting your cycle, through your cycle, continue through PCT, and few weeks or so beyond after your PCT is finished...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigguns View Post
    Ok, after reading about other cycle support i have come to the conclusion i will use Cycle support while on havoc thruout the whole cycle. And post cycle will consist of Post Cycle support and Diesel test hardcore, along with creatine. Does this sound good while running havoc at 10/30/30/30. I would appreciate all the input you guys can give me on this. Thanks
    Do you plan on running this as pulse cycle, or a straight cycle?

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    Thanks for the help guys. Trauma i am planning on running this straight cycle. Id like to run a SERM but the stuff is impossible to get ahold of. Any helpfull info on something near as good being i cant get this.
  

  
 

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