Insulin and Synthol in Bodybuilding - AnabolicMinds.com

Insulin and Synthol in Bodybuilding

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    Insulin and Synthol in Bodybuilding


    I know that there are pro bodybuilders using synthol and/or insulin, but lately there have been some people on Youtube(for instance Bostin Loyd) who have come out and basically said all bodybuilders who are in untested shows are on every substance known to man. Now I am 100% pro-steroid, no questions about it. However insulin and synthol are not steroids, and as someone who aspires to eventually compete in bodybuilding I worry about the use of these compounds.

    First off Insulin, which is the one that bothers me most. I absolutely would not ever use this. It can cause you to go hypoglycemic, I have met several diabetics in my life and going hypoglycemic is no joke. That could cause you to pass out at the wheel or during a set in the gym and get seriously injured or killed. Like I said I know this is out there and people use it, but is it really necessary to use it to make it in bodybuilding?

    Synthol worries are obvious. It's not real muscle you are just pumping yourself full of oil, it's freaky. However I could see many people using this to get the capped delts look on stage as well as some more arm size. Not sure if it's really happening as often as some say or not though.

    TL;DR/Main point is do you think that it's necessary for people to use insulin(or IGF) and/or synthol to be super heavyweight bodybuilders?
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    I think insulin is a requirement to get to that size.

    I find it fascinating what it can do. Seems relatively safe if you know what you're doing and take precautions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekPoop View Post
    I think insulin is a requirement to get to that size.

    I find it fascinating what it can do. Seems relatively safe if you know what you're doing and take precautions.
    I'll admit I haven't read much about Insulin and muscle growth, I'm not sure if there's any medical research on it haven't dug for it, but I find it hard to believe it's "the most anabolic hormone in the body" as many people say. From what I understand it shuttles carbohydrates to your muscles, where testosterone will actually cause your body to use more of the protein you take in and at the same time help you maintain lower body fat. Maybe there's more I'm missing, or maybe research on carbs is where I'm really lacking here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post

    I'll admit I haven't read much about Insulin and muscle growth, I'm not sure if there's any medical research on it haven't dug for it, but I find it hard to believe it's "the most anabolic hormone in the body" as many people say. From what I understand it shuttles carbohydrates to your muscles, where testosterone will actually cause your body to use more of the protein you take in and at the same time help you maintain lower body fat. Maybe there's more I'm missing, or maybe research on carbs is where I'm really lacking here.
    Insulin does more than this. It also activates the GLUT4 in the muscle, which determines and insures the fate of carbs and protein to be used in the muscle cell rather than being stored as fat.

    Anyways, its a combination of Insulin and GH actually that makes the size you see on the 250+ heavyweights.

    A legal and less effective way (but still effective) would be GHRP's and IGF-1 LR3. The IGF actually does nothing for muscular growth by way of hyperplasia or hypertrophy but it does act as a nutrient shuttle much like insulin. I've used it before and its like a constant tiredom throughout the day from blood sugar swings.

    As for synthol, its used prior to and during a bulk cycle to stretch the fascia of the muscle to allow it to grow bigger. Think of it like a 24hr stretch. Anyways, after the bulk, the synthol use is discontinued and will dissipate within 6 months. I dont think many IFBB pro's use this frequently.

    I was under the impression that "natty" bodybuilders used this though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Insulin does more than this. It also activates the GLUT4 in the muscle, which determines and insures the fate of carbs and protein to be used in the muscle cell rather than being stored as fat. Anyways, its a combination of Insulin and GH actually that makes the size you see on the 250+ heavyweights. A legal and less effective way (but still effective) would be GHRP's and IGF-1 LR3. The IGF actually does nothing for muscular growth by way of hyperplasia or hypertrophy but it does act as a nutrient shuttle much like insulin. I've used it before and its like a constant tiredom throughout the day from blood sugar swings. As for synthol, its used prior to and during a bulk cycle to stretch the fascia of the muscle to allow it to grow bigger. Think of it like a 24hr stretch. Anyways, after the bulk, the synthol use is discontinued and will dissipate within 6 months. I dont think many IFBB pro's use this frequently. I was under the impression that "natty" bodybuilders used this though.
    So what exactly causes the pop bellys in these heavyweight bodybuilders ? I'm guessing insulin is a part of it . And growth . It seems internal organs grow big and push out
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post

    So what exactly causes the pop bellys in these heavyweight bodybuilders ? I'm guessing insulin is a part of it . And growth . It seems internal organs grow big and push out
    I used to think this and I still think it's the case sometimes, but after watching some more recent interviews and learning a little more about just how much these guys eat I think the guts is just from food.
    I watched an interview recently with an amateur SHW BB who weighs 280 and he said while bulking he eats around 8-9000 calories a day. So in a cut I'd imagine he eats at least 5k, and I get a little distention at 4 to 4.5k so I can only imagine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post
    I used to think this and I still think it's the case sometimes, but after watching some more recent interviews and learning a little more about just how much these guys eat I think the guts is just from food. I watched an interview recently with an amateur SHW BB who weighs 280 and he said while bulking he eats around 8-9000 calories a day. So in a cut I'd imagine he eats at least 5k, and I get a little distention at 4 to 4.5k so I can only imagine.
    9000 cals !!! That's insane lol
    I struggle with 3500-4000 !
    Thing is insulin and hgh etc always crossed my mind !
    Insulin more so as people put mega weight combined with steroids !
    But the dangers out way the positive for me as I'm kinda new to slin and hgh etc .
    I think ill stick to steroids at the moment to the point where in the future I need an extra push !
    So tempting to get on the insulin though ! Sooooo tempting . Guess I'm just too careful
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    Insulin is pretty safe. As far as synthol, you inject steroids right? Honestly it's the same as injecting hormones in the sense of the carrier oils. Think of it as injecting steroids with out the hormone. A LOT. It's also relatively safe. It's seriously like spot injecting. However there is an art to it and it can go very wrong if you're not putting it in the right spots or massaging the heck out of the muscle to keep lumps down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigydar View Post
    9000 cals !!! That's insane lol
    I struggle with 3500-4000 !
    Thing is insulin and hgh etc always crossed my mind !
    Insulin more so as people put mega weight combined with steroids !
    But the dangers out way the positive for me as I'm kinda new to slin and hgh etc .
    I think ill stick to steroids at the moment to the point where in the future I need an extra push !
    So tempting to get on the insulin though ! Sooooo tempting . Guess I'm just too careful
    Yeah I know it's ridiculous, right? But makes sense, I mean I weigh about 195 now, but was about 205(dropped some estro bloat after cycle, waste shrunk almost 2 inches lol) and after I hit 195-200 I was having to eat 4500 calories to gain extra weight.

    I still think that it may be possible without the slin, I'm optimistic. For me I don't see a reason to even consider it unless I couldn't get anymore results out of steroids/gh/peptides.


    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    Insulin is pretty safe. As far as synthol, you inject steroids right? Honestly it's the same as injecting hormones in the sense of the carrier oils. Think of it as injecting steroids with out the hormone. A LOT. It's also relatively safe. It's seriously like spot injecting. However there is an art to it and it can go very wrong if you're not putting it in the right spots or massaging the heck out of the muscle to keep lumps down.
    I still fail to see how anyone can consider slin to be "safe". I understand there is a way of using it, like steroids, that minimizes risks but there's still the chance of having a dangerous blood glucose problem, or god forbid messing up your bodies natural production of insulin(diabetes). I think many people don't understand the gravity of those dangers.

    I'm with you on the synthol, and I think about it a lot, but I think I'll personally probably steer clear of it unless at a future point I have an issue like 18-19" arms and I just can't get them to get any bigger no matter what I do. Good to research this all early on though.
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    I would consider synthol to be a shape maker, not a massbuilder. If I want bigger arms, I just put on weight. If I want a better ratio of tricep to bicep, then I stretch the fascia in the tricep.

    Also, MCT can be used in place of synthol if sterilized and filtered properly. I also think there is more evidence of carbs, not insulin, that causes insulin resistance. This is also why mass building should be done in spurts, not perpetually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I would consider synthol to be a shape maker, not a massbuilder. If I want bigger arms, I just put on weight. If I want a better ratio of tricep to bicep, then I stretch the fascia in the tricep.

    Also, MCT can be used in place of synthol if sterilized and filtered properly. I also think there is more evidence of carbs, not insulin, that causes insulin resistance. This is also why mass building should be done in spurts, not perpetually.
    When I read MCT all I can think of is medium chain triglycerides lol. Not sure if that's what you mean no idea about it being used in place of synthol.

    Don't really know enough about insulin resistance to comment on it, need to hit some research on that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post

    When I read MCT all I can think of is medium chain triglycerides lol. Not sure if that's what you mean no idea about it being used in place of synthol.

    Don't really know enough about insulin resistance to comment on it, need to hit some research on that.
    Well, Datbtrue has a few threads of research with MCT as the oil of choice for fascia stretching. Apparently it works better at reducing intramuscular fatmass. I aint 100% sure but if I were to inject any plain oil in my body, it'd be MCT.
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    Insulin is def dangerous if used wrong but if you take it with carbs you won't get hypoglycemia. 20:1 is extremely safe, 15:1 is very safe, 10:1 is getting closer to optimum but hypoglycemia can still occur, so a bit more risky.
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    I know quite a few pro bodybuilders.
    Not all of them use insulin but the larger Olympia level guys all do.
    Site injection is pretty common in competitors. Used to fill out weak spots on game day and for FST type training.

    Distended stomach is from a combination of tons of food + severe internal organ growth from excessive HGH + visceral fat deposits from slin use.
    Visceral/fat under the abs for example is the very last to go and is often present even on stage in the big guys.
    THey may have shredded abs but still have significant fat underneath/behind it. Slin is notorious for causing this.

    So...combine all these factors and you look like a silverback top to bottom with a gut that sticks out farther than your chest even on the biggest pros.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundel View Post
    I know quite a few pro bodybuilders.
    Not all of them use insulin but the larger Olympia level guys all do.
    Site injection is pretty common in competitors. Used to fill out weak spots on game day and for FST type training.

    Distended stomach is from a combination of tons of food + severe internal organ growth from excessive HGH + visceral fat deposits from slin use.
    Visceral/fat under the abs for example is the very last to go and is often present even on stage in the big guys.
    THey may have shredded abs but still have significant fat underneath/behind it. Slin is notorious for causing this.

    So...combine all these factors and you look like a silverback top to bottom with a gut that sticks out farther than your chest even on the biggest pros.
    Sounds about right. I prefer GHS peptides over HGH for a number of reasons and this is one of them - the systemic IGF that tends to cause gut dystentia.

    Carbs are the biggest factor for myself though. When I kill those, my abs flatten out pretty quickly. I havent tried slin as of yet but I might need to in order to hit 200lbs. Still debating that one..
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    Lets be clear on a few things. First of all Bostin Loyd is not the end all be all on advice in bodybuilding. He is a baby in the sport, and when he says that Natural competitors are on everything undetected under the sun, he is talking garbage and cannot speak for every competitor. People do not fully understand that GENETICS play a very big role in the sport. The use of slin an synthol are of course tools in the sport, but its to what extent they are used. As explained earlier, utilizing synthol or MCT to stretch fascia can compliment an already establised physique by experienced users. I find that acceptable. The use of slin can never be called safe, only 'safer'. Also outlined above, 20 grams per iu of say humalog (preferred insulin by many) is a 'relatively safe' way to use it. However I believe that should only be used as a last result. Ive trained with 2 npc competitors, and ive heard a whole lot. I also have had the chance to talk with a local pro in which I will not name out of respect, but let me tell you that these guys are not taking what you think they are. These guys are seperated from the rest because of work ethic and genetics. These outrageous claims that all the pros are on 5 grams of test and 2 grams of tren and 150+ mgs of dbol with 15iu of slin postworkout and 30iu of growth a day are laughable. Are there people who take doses that are mentioned? Sure there are. But you would actually be suprised if you knew what the sucessful competitors take.
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    I'm too very connected with several top level competitors (olympia-a/c level) and my experience is while genetics and expertise play a role, a lot of these guys are taking a ton of drugs, more than you think. Are they taking the doses you mentioned before? Not necessarily. But if you're eating 8-9000 calories and shredding body fat you aren't doing it naturally.

    I'd argue that INTELLIGENT use of insulin is relatively safe. After all, millions of people with little or no control over what they put in their bodies are sent home with it from the doctor's office with it each day and insulin overdose is profoundly uncommon. You could argue these ppl have higher levels of insulin resistance and you wouldn't be wrong but many of them are also abusing drugs, alcohol, and have a ridiculously bad diet.

    I would argue that a top level competitor that isn't using test, tren, mast, eq, dbol, winny, gh, slin, and likely peptides, at multigram levels, would be a rare case indeed.

    Is everyone using dnp, nubain, and pgf2a etc along with these megadoses? Perhaps not.
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    Multi gram levels? Sure. But not comic book doses. What most people fail to realize is that there is so much maintenence going on at the top levels. Im talking prescriptions up the a$$ for everything you can think of. Im talking recreational drugs and painkillers every single day for some. Some of the npc guys I know have told me things that made me sick to my stomach in disbelief. However if people think that Ronnie in 98' or 03' was on 10 grams of test they are wrong. Genetics play a massive role and it is single handedly the reason why the elite are the elite. Have you seen phil heaths journey? This is an example of complete genetics. Were drugs used? Absolutely. But you can give anyone the best diet and human grade drugs, the top coaches and best training facility, and they will never be what the pros are. Or if you look at Kai at 17 years old, living in an orphanage with barely any supplements, a less than optimal gym (to say the least) and little to no help. Winning his shows and completely stomping the competition. I respect your knowledge and experience Mystere3, and I agree with you on most things youve stated, however I will not fold on my statement that Genetics are the key.
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    There is probably truth in many posts on here.

    I think insulin is always touted as dangerous because if u screw up and overdose, it can put u in a hospital or even cause death (which I suspect is rather difficult unless done intentionally or in an uneducated fashion).

    Screw up on a dose of dbol = fine. Maybe some high blood pressure at most, lol.

    Genetics do play a role. However, (at least in my experience) you really wouldnt need anymore than 2g/wk of androgens to get the leanest hardest look out there. A bit of EQ & Mast or Tren and Mast would do. Less than 500mg of each really would create that massive, thick & lean look.

    With that said, I've come a long way from where I was with a skimpy anabolic protocol of TRT and peptides and that one phrase...what was it...

    Work ethic. I guess what I'm sayin is that its all got some validity.
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    I agree that genetics play a major part, but that comes in different ways. It was illuminating what Nasser said about steroid and drug use. His point was the constitution to tolerate these mega doses of drugs is what set yates and others apart. While some of that was probably jealousy, but I think there's some truth to it.

    Certain pros have sh1t genetics but crazy work ethic and obv use a ton of drugs and have had a lot of success.

    Phil heath is obv a genetic freak of nature but he also busted his ass and had a lot of pharmaceutical help.

    Genetics obviously plays a huge role. Not in the field of bodybuilding but I read an article where brian shaw clean and pressed the inch dumbbell with no training at a fitness expo without trying like it was a toy back when he was 22 or something and natty. That immediately got him his start in strongman and sponsors lol.
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    Hahah yeah man total freak. We are definitely on the same page, and I appreciate what you have to say. Lots of good info on this board. Call me crazy but I think branch has less than optimal genetics. And hes always a top contender and also an arnold winner. Guess its all give and take.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambizione View Post
    Hahah yeah man total freak. We are definitely on the same page, and I appreciate what you have to say. Lots of good info on this board. Call me crazy but I think branch has less than optimal genetics. And hes always a top contender and also an arnold winner. Guess its all give and take.
    That's who I was talking about; dude has 38" waist! No one can deny he busts his ass in the gym 24/7 and has done more with less (genetically, not pharmaceutically) than anyone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post
    I know that there are pro bodybuilders using synthol and/or insulin, but lately there have been some people on Youtube(for instance Bostin Loyd) who have come out and basically said all bodybuilders who are in untested shows are on every substance known to man. Now I am 100% pro-steroid, no questions about it. However insulin and synthol are not steroids, and as someone who aspires to eventually compete in bodybuilding I worry about the use of these compounds.

    First off Insulin, which is the one that bothers me most. I absolutely would not ever use this. It can cause you to go hypoglycemic, I have met several diabetics in my life and going hypoglycemic is no joke. That could cause you to pass out at the wheel or during a set in the gym and get seriously injured or killed. Like I said I know this is out there and people use it, but is it really necessary to use it to make it in bodybuilding?

    Synthol worries are obvious. It's not real muscle you are just pumping yourself full of oil, it's freaky. However I could see many people using this to get the capped delts look on stage as well as some more arm size. Not sure if it's really happening as often as some say or not though.

    TL;DR/Main point is do you think that it's necessary for people to use insulin(or IGF) and/or synthol to be super heavyweight bodybuilders?
    I do believe slin is necessary but not synthol.

    You could very easily get contest size in a year on just test, tren, insulin, t3 , gh and the occasional 6 weeker like dbol or turinabol.
    You'd be eating 6k calories in no time.
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    My friend saw him guest pose and he said "You see branch and you see hes big, but when he turns around you have a whole new meaning for big" Haha. And yeah I agree, I will say I believe he works harder than MOST of the pros. I have the utmost respect for the underdog like branch who plays the cards hes dealt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    I do believe slin is necessary but not synthol.

    You could very easily get contest size in a year on just test, tren, insulin, t3 , gh and the occasional 6 weeker like dbol or turinabol.
    You'd be eating 6k calories in no time.
    Olympia size?

    I agree that you might not need synthol but a year? No.

    I'm 6'1" and 230 or so walking around and I'm a pretty big guy by most ppl's standards at 12% or so. At 2%, that's 212-214. A top level competitor at my height, like Dennis wolf or Toney Freeman probably weighs 300-310 lb on stage. That's >90< more lb of lean body mass. Even with blast and cruise and unlimited training time IMO that's a few years max. Even phil with all the gifts in the world was only going up 20-30 lb a year. Ramy is the only pro I know that got that big that fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambizione View Post
    My friend saw him guest pose and he said "You see branch and you see hes big, but when he turns around you have a whole new meaning for big" Haha. And yeah I agree, I will say I believe he works harder than MOST of the pros. I have the utmost respect for the underdog like branch who plays the cards hes dealt.
    Dude is what, 5'6" 260-270 on stage? That's enormous. He's probably even bigger than ronnie adjusted for height. I think jay competed at 290 at 5'9 which is probably about the same.

    I think kai is probably the hardest working. Dude does nothing but lift. I want good things for him; I don't like him as much as phil as a bodybuilder but really do as a person.
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    Yeah man he is gigantic, and those quads, whew. I mean his injuries are a testament to his work ethic. Tears this, tears that. Its rough. And yes jay is massive but no matter what I see or know, thinking about ronnie always gets me. I just cannot wrap my head around it. The 800lb deads and squats 2 weeks out from winning the O. Theres only one word for him, and its freak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere3 View Post

    Olympia size?

    I agree that you might not need synthol but a year? No.

    I'm 6'1" and 230 or so walking around and I'm a pretty big guy by most ppl's standards at 12% or so. At 2%, that's 212-214. A top level competitor at my height, like Dennis wolf or Toney Freeman probably weighs 300-310 lb on stage. That's >90< more lb of lean body mass. Even with blast and cruise and unlimited training time IMO that's a few years max. Even phil with all the gifts in the world was only going up 20-30 lb a year. Ramy is the only pro I know that got that big that fast.
    I didnt think they were that heavy but the heaviest guys nowadays are 270-280lbs. Colemans and Cutlers of the 2000's are gone. That blockiness doesnt win these days.

    But yeah, 30lbs of lean tissue growth is about all anyone could expect in a year. I've pulled off about 10 so far and still have a few months left and I'm really happy about it too.
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    I completely agree with this. There is only a certain amount of growth your body will endure in any given time. The same goes for fatloss, people want to starve themselves and wonder why their not losing weight. They have slipped into starvation mode and your body wont let go of anything else. No drug regimen or diet or training will turn a joe to a pro in a year. Or even a joe to a top contender. Just doesnt happen
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    A lot of good stuff coming up. Got me thinking a lot but my plans haven't changed. I think my best course of action is to continue with low-medium dosing since I respond well to it, and I believe I do have good genetics. I've gone from 130lbs and skinny as hell to 195 at maybe 2-3% more bf than when I was that small in about 3 years.

    Also if my position on synthol wasn't clear by now I would use it in the future but only of im at like 18+ inch arms for years and they still won't grow. So I would consider it for fascia stretching at a much later point MAYBE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere3 View Post

    Olympia size?

    I agree that you might not need synthol but a year? No.

    I'm 6'1" and 230 or so walking around and I'm a pretty big guy by most ppl's standards at 12% or so. At 2%, that's 212-214. A top level competitor at my height, like Dennis wolf or Toney Freeman probably weighs 300-310 lb on stage. That's >90< more lb of lean body mass. Even with blast and cruise and unlimited training time IMO that's a few years max. Even phil with all the gifts in the world was only going up 20-30 lb a year. Ramy is the only pro I know that got that big that fast.
    .....don't get ahead of yourself. I said contest shape. Olympia may take a bit longer due to politics but the size is not the hard part. Getting way to fat off season, dieting for 20+ weeks and looking like utter **** is the problem.
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    First off Super thats really good progress and you should be very happy with that transformation. And theres people who never touch synthol despite their lacking of a certain muscle group or head. There are a million things people can do to get past sticking points in arm growth to completely shock the muscle, and even then spot injections hold the same ground for fascia stretching. I would agree if different training styles and variations of movements cant quite produce a certain look that you need then maybe its an option, I however would just never touch the stuff.
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    Would rather use pgf2a than synthol.
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    I'll spend the money on legit MGF before I go to synthol.

    But sterile MCT sounds pretty cool though.
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    I would personally never use those two. I think its too risky..
    Ill stick with my test, deca , var and hgh/igf peptides...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    I would personally never use those two. I think its too risky..
    Ill stick with my test, deca , var and hgh/igf peptides...
    Those two as in synthol and MCT? Or as in MGF?

    Surely u arent referring to MGF while in the same effort willing to use IGF...

    My thoughts on MCT is simply because the stuff has such positive effects elsewhere in the body that it might have additional benefits other than just stretching the fascia. It is believed to actually be able to reduce intramuscular fat deposits if injected. Anyways, thats a side topic for another day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blergs View Post
    I would personally never use those two. I think its too risky..
    Ill stick with my test, deca , var and hgh/igf peptides...
    I probably won't ever use them either. I have obviously thought about it and I'm researching them but unlike most other things I've researched in the BB world the more I learn about slin and synthol it seems the more I feel I don't need it. I think it's still good to know about it though.

    Also I would consider peptides other than IGF, like MGF/GHRPs + CJC/Follistatin/etc.
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    Genetics play a star role.
    Look at pictures of cutler at 18 after 1 year training....he gained 50lbs and looked bigger than some current pros. Ronnie coleman won his pro card.....fn natural. No steroids. This is a fact. Of course hes the only one on earth to do this but thats the point he alsp became the most dominant pro in history.

    I have a friend who basicslly is off most of the year.
    Hes an ifbb pro now. Won his pro card last year.
    Hes off most of the time then he runs a relatively light cycle. Nothing exotic. He grows into a monster...its retarded. If i run the same cycle i get high blood pressure amd a few lbs lol.

    Genetics.
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    A lot of these things are likely related to myostatin as well.

    People's genetics for building muscle are pretty different.

    I'm genetically blessed to be able to put on muscle mass extremely easily with calories much above maintainance. I'll put on some fat too but I can't push calories on cycle or I'll get too big too fast for my goals. For me, though, cutting is much more of a challenge. Therefore I run lots of recomp/cut cycles in between caloric deficit cuts and only one bulk a year.

    Other friends of mine blast/cruise and get less gains with test/tren/eq than I'd get with dmz and a little calorie surplus. Then again, they can drop body fat like it's going out of style. It just is what it is. Very few ppl can do both easily, many of them are ifbb pros.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere3 View Post
    A lot of these things are likely related to myostatin as well.

    People's genetics for building muscle are pretty different.

    I'm genetically blessed to be able to put on muscle mass extremely easily with calories much above maintainance. I'll put on some fat too but I can't push calories on cycle or I'll get too big too fast for my goals. For me, though, cutting is much more of a challenge. Therefore I run lots of recomp/cut cycles in between caloric deficit cuts and only one bulk a year.

    Other friends of mine blast/cruise and get less gains with test/tren/eq than I'd get with dmz and a little calorie surplus. Then again, they can drop body fat like it's going out of style. It just is what it is. Very few ppl can do both easily, many of them are ifbb pros.
    I agree and can relate. I can add mass no problem, and also spill over very easily. When it comes to cutting, it is a whole different story, so I have to take a more aggressive approach than most people who can just reduce carbs or something in that nature. I am very carb sensative so I use keto in my efforts to cut. Have to find what works for you. And myostatin is also a very big role that hasnt been mentioned yet, so props to you for that. There are a million factors and some people just happen to have most of them, and those are the top pros IMO.
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