Primordial Performance raided by FDA - AnabolicMinds.com

Primordial Performance raided by FDA

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    Primordial Performance raided by FDA


    Guys, what's going on with this?

    IMPORTANT ANDROSERIES UPDATE!!! - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums

    Truly unfortunate, and if this goes through I am sure it will break a lot of hearts. Any updates you can throw our way would be great!
    I'm sorry to hear about it, and I can only imagine Eric's emotions after all the hard work and set backs that took place getting the Androseries and other new products off the ground in the first place.
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    Agh sad day to hear this. Hope everything gets worked out.

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    WTF!
    Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me. Micah 7:8
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    I was just coming in the subforum to write about how Andro Drive is still a life-saver for me.... What a way to get fired up. I am urging everyone to get involved in politics and start pointing your anger at the right place. Time to come out from behind the screens and start taking action. Before we know it, dietary supplements will be CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES. They raided Primordial Performance, because his products are innovative and effective and they've got a list of other companies that they'll come after next. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    I paid the $7.00 to promote this on Facebook (yes, I do believe in utilizing social networks for freedom of information) as I was planning on re-ordering (2) more bottles of AndroDrive. I think that the freedom of using my money to buy supplements is now pretty much going to hell, I could afford less than ten bucks to let as much people about this know as possible. No, it's not jumping the gun... it's acting before it's too late.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Really sucks, I was just about to order some of their stuff too.. for the beginning of the year..
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    As long as a product is not affecting people in a negative way, the FDA should keep their **%$&* nose out of it!!!
    After a year off, I'm back
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    There are a couple threads on this topic. I will attempt to keep everyone updated as information is made available.
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    It is unfortunate yes. It was only a matter of time i believe. You cannot blast the internet with slogans like "FDA Compliant Steroids" and "Steroids for the Brain". I am sure way to much attention was drawn from big brother on that, kind of like rubbing their nose in it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    It is unfortunate yes. It was only a matter of time i believe. You cannot blast the internet with slogans like "FDA Compliant Steroids" and "Steroids for the Brain". I am sure way to much attention was drawn from big brother on that, kind of like rubbing their nose in it.
    True - I'm sure continuing to produce Transdermals did not help as well. The fDA made their stance on those known quite some time ago

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    Just glad I got all of their products a few weeks ago. Andro hard, mass, bulk, enhance and drive. Everything but andro lean. I'm hoping ill be able to do more than just one cycle but we will see.
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    I know this isn't the political section, but you can sift through any magazine and see those ads in the back that say 'Legal Steroids', etc. (Winni V, D-Bolan, etc.) and those things are garbage. Plenty of companies use different advertising techniques and to be frank, PP's products work and that's what sets it apart.

    Freedom isn't about building a company in fear that more and more things will get banned by the ever-growing FDA. The government only has power, because we give them power. We can educate each other about products and trust in our community to take care of ourselves and each other and decide what's good for our bodies. Remember the first 3 words of the consitution, "We The People". It still seems that a good percent of people want the government to tell us what's good and what's bad for us.

    For a community of individuals who can brag and boast and post pictures of ourselves lifting extravagant amounts of weight and reach personal bests that are almost unheard of, when it comes to the constitution (particularly our Bill of Rights), we can't seem to flex a muscle.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    It is unfortunate yes. It was only a matter of time i believe. You cannot blast the internet with slogans like "FDA Compliant Steroids" and "Steroids for the Brain". I am sure way to much attention was drawn from big brother on that, kind of like rubbing their nose in it.
    For someone whom I have a lot of respect for, can you reflect on what you just wrote after reading it in a more critical light? You are suggesting that supplement companies should succumb to the fear of the FDA before they express freedom of advertising? I've realized the error of my way in criticizing the way some companies advertise, but a line is drawn when the government steps in and I take special exception in this case. It all boils down to freedom of speech, but where do we draw the line? When you balance morals with government mandates for advertising, you are in essence alleviating personal responsibility from the individual and thus giving more power to government. You're basically saying that Primordial Performance invited this by exercising their 1st ammendment right and coming from a company representative, I find this to be a poor reflection on the ideals of PES and I hope that the company and its owner do not share the same opinion. I hope after reading this, maybe you'll realize the error.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mw1 View Post
    True - I'm sure continuing to produce Transdermals did not help as well. The fDA made their stance on those known quite some time ago
    "The FDA made their stance".. . And "We the people..." ...We the People are going to just lay out and bitch everytime the FDA illegally oversteps their bounds. The government preys on weakness, that's the only way they can keep growing more powerful. America as a whole has decided to try and let government handle things for a long time now. When are we going to give freedom a chance? Well, I guess we can't really give something a chance when we can't define it. Ask the government to define 'terror', because I think they're more interested in filling our heads with all that kind of rhetoric rather than going the other route. It seems like anyone who has a grasp on what freedom is all about is considered threatening, because the idea can spread into the hearts and minds of others who understand the concept.



    "Yeah we get high. We get high on the idea of Freedom!" -Ron Paul, 1988
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green
    For someone whom I have a lot of respect for, can you reflect on what you just wrote after reading it in a more critical light? You are suggesting that supplement companies should succumb to the fear of the FDA before they express freedom of advertising? I've realized the error of my way in criticizing the way some companies advertise, but a line is drawn when the government steps in and I take special exception in this case. It all boils down to freedom of speech, but where do we draw the line? When you balance morals with government mandates for advertising, you are in essence alleviating personal responsibility from the individual and thus giving more power to government. You're basically saying that Primordial Performance invited this by exercising their 1st ammendment right and coming from a company representative, I find this to be a poor reflection on the ideals of PES and I hope that the company and its owner do not share the same opinion. I hope after reading this, maybe you'll realize the error.
    I get your point, but I see his point too.

    While freedom of speech does fall into play, unfortunately so does the illegality of selling "steroids."
    While they are not a schedule III controlled substance (yet) it does seem logical that the FDA would track this for so long and eventually say "enough is enough."
    While I don't agree with their decision it does seem like that may have played a huge part in it.

    If Josh marketed the entire PES line as "FDA compliant narcotics" or something, or if an energy drink plastered the word COCAINE all over their cans, I would bet the FDA would investigate that too.

    When it comes to actually making a profit and running a taxable business, it seems freedom of speech is no longer a default defense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM

    I get your point, but I see his point too.

    While freedom of speech does fall into play, unfortunately so does the illegality of selling "steroids."
    While they are not a schedule III controlled substance (yet) it does seem logical that the FDA would track this for so long and eventually say "enough is enough."
    While I don't agree with their decision it does seem like that may have played a huge part in it.

    If Josh marketed the entire PES line as "FDA compliant narcotics" or something, or if an energy drink plastered the word COCAINE all over their cans, I would bet the FDA would investigate that too.

    When it comes to actually making a profit and running a taxable business, it seems freedom of speech is no longer a default defense.
    My point about selling "steroids" is the FDA had to at some point ask themselves if PP was in fact selling steroids. Hence facing legal issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    For someone whom I have a lot of respect for, can you reflect on what you just wrote after reading it in a more critical light? You are suggesting that supplement companies should succumb to the fear of the FDA before they express freedom of advertising? I've realized the error of my way in criticizing the way some companies advertise, but a line is drawn when the government steps in and I take special exception in this case. It all boils down to freedom of speech, but where do we draw the line? When you balance morals with government mandates for advertising, you are in essence alleviating personal responsibility from the individual and thus giving more power to government. You're basically saying that Primordial Performance invited this by exercising their 1st ammendment right and coming from a company representative, I find this to be a poor reflection on the ideals of PES and I hope that the company and its owner do not share the same opinion. I hope after reading this, maybe you'll realize the error.
    This makes no sense, really. Freedom of speech? Are you sure? Sure, you have the RIGHT to say what you want but that doesnt mean there arn't going to be consequences for what was said. There are laws controlling how/what can be marketed and to whom these products can be marketed to. Theres no such thing as freedom of speech; at least, not in the context you are referring to.

    Did you know that in my little country, tabbaco companies can no longer have their own packaging on the carton? We sell only plain packages on ciggerettes, why? Because thats the law. And the government has the power to do whats in the 'best interest' of its people.

    This isnt a flame at PP, because this is a true loss to the supplement industry and I can only feel for the families that will be affected by this, but perhaps the marketing scheme could have been better thought through. The word steriods rings alarm bells, and the FDA are well within there right to shutdown any activity they believe is illegal, especially if the marketer (PP) claims they are FDA compliant, when in fact, the FDA hadn't even heard of the product.
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    It's sad to hear that it's over. PP was the pioneer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by g0hardorgohom
    It's sad to hear that it's over. PP was the pioneer.
    The pioneers' products have been banned for years. But I get what you're saying lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    The pioneers' products have been banned for years. But I get what you're saying lol.

    Anyone want some VPX Test Cyp???? Lol
    I should've said that they were the future of this industry

    And yes, I want and some liquid M1T too! Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    This makes no sense, really. Freedom of speech? Are you sure? Sure, you have the RIGHT to say what you want but that doesnt mean there arn't going to be consequences for what was said. There are laws controlling how/what can be marketed and to whom these products can be marketed to. Theres no such thing as freedom of speech; at least, not in the context you are referring to.

    Did you know that in my little country, tabbaco companies can no longer have their own packaging on the carton? We sell only plain packages on ciggerettes, why? Because thats the law. And the government has the power to do whats in the 'best interest' of its people.

    This isnt a flame at PP, because this is a true loss to the supplement industry and I can only feel for the families that will be affected by this, but perhaps the marketing scheme could have been better thought through. The word steriods rings alarm bells, and the FDA are well within there right to shutdown any activity they believe is illegal, especially if the marketer (PP) claims they are FDA compliant, when in fact, the FDA hadn't even heard of the product.
    It's 2012 and here's another person yet who still wants the government to decide what's in the best interest of the people. How's that working out so far? You're missing the bigger picture.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    It's 2012 and here's another person yet who still wants the government to decide what's in the best interest of the people. How's that working out so far? You're missing the bigger picture.
    By all means, keep up the revolutionary fight. What you are just now experiencing, I have been active in for slightly over a decade. Go ahead and keep up the good fight.

    Regardless of your thoughts on the matter, or mine... you are just wrong right now. You can feel how you want, but when running a business, you better damn well keep walking the line because there are plenty of ways to shut you down. Dance the way the FDA wants you to, because it is their world and we just live in it. Wrong, right, indifferent? It doesn't matter. it is the world we are in at the moment, so play the game or actually do something. Telling other people on a forum their views are wrong cause they miss "The bigger picture" is ominous at best. Because someone does the dance does not mean they agree with the regulations they are constrained to, it just means that providing for their family is more important than fighting on the political front lines.

    Freedom of Speech is BS in business. Not only in this country, but all over the world. When you service the community, only do or say what you are allowed too, otherwise lose your business... simple as that. May not get shut down outright, but the legal fight will no doubt bankrupt you if the FDA wants to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    I get your point, but I see his point too.

    While freedom of speech does fall into play, unfortunately so does the illegality of selling "steroids."
    While they are not a schedule III controlled substance (yet) it does seem logical that the FDA would track this for so long and eventually say "enough is enough."
    While I don't agree with their decision it does seem like that may have played a huge part in it.

    If Josh marketed the entire PES line as "FDA compliant narcotics" or something, or if an energy drink plastered the word COCAINE all over their cans, I would bet the FDA would investigate that too.

    When it comes to actually making a profit and running a taxable business, it seems freedom of speech is no longer a default defense.
    I am empathetic to the other side of the coin as well. I was on the fence for a while, as the notion of Freedom still has fear in the minds of many. People associate Freedom with things such as anarchy, but once Freedom becomes truly defined in your heart it won't take long to convince people that men and women should be allowed to be Free. I don't think it's such a bad idea to finally come to terms and say, "we've trusted the bureaucrats and the politicians in Washington to tell us what Freedom is and it's time to take back our sovereignty,"? We let the government define what terror is everytime we turned on the television and we'd see that we were always at amber. Now we distract ourselves with cliches like 'support the troops' to fight an endless war on terror...

    This is merely an extension of the 'War On Drugs'. We don't need the 'war on steroids' either. When kids get old enough to start lifting weights and/or getting involved in sports, they will realize that steroids exist and that they can be easily obtained through the black market. The education that they may have on them (if any) is a contradiction: Steroids are bad for you/Steroids make you grow bigger muscles and perform better and people respect you more. Do we not see 'newbies' join the forum all the time that are just curious for dosing information on steroids, while at the same time have their hearts dead-set on using them?

    Ask yourself, is it working? Legitimately concerned companies like Primordial Performance get shut down for trying to go through all the right channels, pioneering safer products, and 'flexing' the 1st ammendment right to advertise it as just that. At the same time, we have some whose first post is something like:

    "Hey guys! I'm new here and I need some help! I've got 2 vials of test cyp and 1 vial of tren, how do I run it and do I need PCT?"

    We see that the avatar says 18, and 'legally' we can not offer advice and usually we (I did too) would flame them about the dangers of steroids and that it's a grown-up thing, tell them to eat food and to come back in 3 years, etc. We are merely alleviating ourselves from responsibility and inversely inticing the individual to use it more. The end up either adversely effecting their health and further fueling parents and such to urge the government to expand it's power OR they get caught and they end up in the system. We know what chain of events is likely to happen next.

    To get back to the issue at hand with Primordial Performance, while the FDA is raiding our friends in the bodybuilding community (I hope we all consider Eric of PP to be our friend) they are keeping people like IP China in power. It doesn't cost much money to send some trigger happy idiots over to Primordial Performance, it takes a little diligence to put a stop to people like IP China, who constantly change Western Union recipients and location to provide a 99% delivery rate. It's easy to violate a supplement retailers 4th ammendment rights (and everyone in the database for that matter) and illegally acquire the names, addresses, phone numbers, etc. of people who may or may not have ordered the product(s).

    There will still be those who don't want to read this or just skim through and say, "blah, blah, blah, God is great, government is good," but for those with an open-mind and either a true understanding or a passion for what Freedom is and a stronghold to the Constitution, we can see multiple points of view, but it's over a decade past the new millenium and we're sick and tired and having government doing what they're doing.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    By all means, keep up the revolutionary fight. What you are just now experiencing, I have been active in for slightly over a decade. Go ahead and keep up the good fight.

    Regardless of your thoughts on the matter, or mine... you are just wrong right now. You can feel how you want, but when running a business, you better damn well keep walking the line because there are plenty of ways to shut you down. Dance the way the FDA wants you to, because it is their world and we just live in it. Wrong, right, indifferent? It doesn't matter. it is the world we are in at the moment, so play the game or actually do something. Telling other people on a forum their views are wrong cause they miss "The bigger picture" is ominous at best. Because someone does the dance does not mean they agree with the regulations they are constrained to, it just means that providing for their family is more important than fighting on the political front lines.

    Freedom of Speech is BS in business. Not only in this country, but all over the world. When you service the community, only do or say what you are allowed too, otherwise lose your business... simple as that. May not get shut down outright, but the legal fight will no doubt bankrupt you if the FDA wants to.
    Unfortunately I haven't had a business long enough to know what FDA intervention is like I understand what you are saying and the valid points that you and others are making aren't falling on deaf ears or blind eyes. The Revolution is growing and people are starting to wake-up as you have probably long ahead of the rest. However, this shouldn't be another lesson of how to play ball with the FDA. I think it should be reason enough to re-ignite the fire within you to start re-assessing what we can do to protect each other from 'big brother'. There's enough people that have that same fire that you once had about this issue and maybe it's time to start rounding people up who feel that it's time to let Freedom work it's way, before the FDA strikes a nerve with everyone.

    When you have a staple supplement in your pantry that improves the quality of life as much as AndroDrive did for me (I've been ranting and raving since I've first started it) and the FDA pulls something like this, it almost feels as if they swiped it right out of my kitchen. At some point when the FDA continues their charade, it will keep hitting more nerves with more people and they will be wondering who else feels the same way. So my point is, is that maybe we should act now before it's too late.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    This makes no sense, really. Freedom of speech? Are you sure? Sure, you have the RIGHT to say what you want but that doesnt mean there arn't going to be consequences for what was said. There are laws controlling how/what can be marketed and to whom these products can be marketed to. Theres no such thing as freedom of speech; at least, not in the context you are referring to.

    Did you know that in my little country, tabbaco companies can no longer have their own packaging on the carton? We sell only plain packages on ciggerettes, why? Because thats the law. And the government has the power to do whats in the 'best interest' of its people.

    This isnt a flame at PP, because this is a true loss to the supplement industry and I can only feel for the families that will be affected by this, but perhaps the marketing scheme could have been better thought through. The word steriods rings alarm bells, and the FDA are well within there right to shutdown any activity they believe is illegal, especially if the marketer (PP) claims they are FDA compliant, when in fact, the FDA hadn't even heard of the product.
    When your fingers type something such as: "There is no such thing as freedom of speech," you should really step outside the box and maybe reflect on what you're saying. Even in a contextual manner. There're times of legitimate reason to take action when one misunderstands their 1st ammendment right and threatens the life of someone or him or herself and there are some personal issues (plenty of my family and people I know died of lung cancer) to think that government regulation is the answer, but it's not.

    When my aunt died a year ago, she was 67 years old. She had 2 strokes and already ceased smoking for 15 years. She was lonely after moving from Florida when her husband died and her dog was her last 24/7 companion. Then the dog died and cigarettes became her all day companion again. Will I join an anti-tobacco activist group? No. Did I love my aunt? Yes, very much. Did we try and help her? Yes. Did she see those nasty commercials on TV? Yes, every hour. Have I matured and expanded my horizons enough to know that there are a lot of people who take personal issues with certain organizations or corporations who appear to be 'abusing' the 1st ammendment? Yes, I do and I am not for corporations nor do I agree that corporations should be treated as individuals (this legislation needs to be repealled).

    A point that I'm making is that there's a lot of tension and hostility on the issue, but we need aim it at the right place: The institution that was set in place for 2 reasons (government) that grew out of control like wildfire and needs to be tamed.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    This sucks, good luck guys. I wish you the best!
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    This blows
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    Yes it makes total sense. Lets take away the safest products so people will be forced to use harsher compounds for their first cycles lol. When does logic come into play? Who the **** are these people who decide what I can ingest ? For the steroid control Act of 2012 they literally copy and pasted chemical names from the forums. They have no clue what the compounds are and some of them don't even exist lol. Pathetic!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Yes it makes total sense. Lets take away the safest products so people will be forced to use harsher compounds for their first cycles lol. When does logic come into play? Who the **** are these people who decide what I can ingest ? For the steroid control Act of 2012 they literally copy and pasted chemical names from the forums. They have no clue what the compounds are and some of them don't even exist lol. Pathetic!!!
    Thank you for seeing the bigger picture. As we gradually let the government know that we're okay with kissing their feet everytime they put their foot down and stomp on legitimate companies, we grant them more power. The power invested in the government is by the people. As the government grows stronger, the constitution becomes distorted and twisted, 'We The People' become confused and pre-occupied arguing with one another, and in essence become weaker. Sooner or later, we need to 'cycle-off' this idea that government will take care of us, because it's making our balls shrink worse than a year long cycle of Superdrol. It's not working and if you continue to support it, then have fun counting your moral inventory when we reach that cliff and collapse, because believe it or not we're almost there. We're bankrupt and the government is spending more and more money on things that aren't in our best interest.
    Freedom means nothing here.
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    This really sucks. I wish everyone at PP the best of luck in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Thank you for seeing the bigger picture. As we gradually let the government know that we're okay with kissing their feet everytime they put their foot down and stomp on legitimate companies, we grant them more power. The power invested in the government is by the people. As the government grows stronger, the constitution becomes distorted and twisted, 'We The People' become confused and pre-occupied arguing with one another, and in essence become weaker. Sooner or later, we need to 'cycle-off' this idea that government will take care of us, because it's making our balls shrink worse than a year long cycle of Superdrol. It's not working and if you continue to support it, then have fun counting your moral inventory when we reach that cliff and collapse, because believe it or not we're almost there. We're bankrupt and the government is spending more and more money on things that aren't in our best interest.
    Irregardless of your personal views on the matter, it changes nothing. Everything else you've said is irrelevant for whats happened now with PP. In the end, if you are in the business of selling drugs or food etc. you are of concern to the FDA, just because you don't agree with what they do doesn't mean anything in the larger scale of things.

    And I dont want this to turn into a political debate, I have no time for it nor is it relevant at all. If you want to fight the FDA by all means, go ahead.
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    1. Irregardless isn't a word
    2. Freedom of speech doesn't apply to ads at all. Don't know what the hell you're talking about
    3. This does suck. I managed to get some a month ago so it'll be my last PP run I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11
    1. Irregardless isn't a word
    2. Freedom of speech doesn't apply to ads at all. Don't know what the hell you're talking about
    3. This does suck. I managed to get some a month ago so it'll be my last PP run I guess.
    I regard less:
    That's how my auto correct spelled it. Had to try.
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    so was the use of the word "steroids" in their marketing really the reason behind the raid? or is this all speculation still?
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    yep my last run as well. did 4 weeks of bulk now doing 4 weeks of mass. i may go into depression...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderHumper
    so was the use of the word "steroids" in their marketing really the reason behind the raid? or is this all speculation still?
    As far as I know they haven't released a statement yet. It's all speculation right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesm11 View Post
    1. Irregardless isn't a word
    2. Freedom of speech doesn't apply to ads at all. Don't know what the hell you're talking about
    3. This does suck. I managed to get some a month ago so it'll be my last PP run I guess.
    http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...h/irregardless
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/irregardless

    Even words with controversy are legit to me haha. Chnage it to irrespective in your mind if it bothers you
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    Double post
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Double post
    Stupid internet. Corrected it
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